nota4re

Just consulted the Service Manual and it is showing "normal" O2's.... I don't have the wiring manual yet. What kind of values are you getting?

cloud9

I'm getting converted readings, not just raw voltage. I went out in the garage just for you and re-set them up and it's 100 degrees out





It's roughly 14.50 at idle on both banks. I revved it a couple times to WOT with no engine load (**** that's loud in the garage with no side discs and Corsa Extremes) and it dropped into the mid 13s. I have had it set to scan before when driving it and it's down in the 12.5 range at WOT. I left it setup in case you wanted any more data while driving. Just let me know and I can watch it tomorrow.

I did check a few more values I'd like and no go....Trans Temp 1 &2 and CHT. You can get fuel pressure as well if you're interested. There's also quite a few others I haven't really used like throttle position, speed, rpm, hp, O2 (rear cats?) etc.

nota4re

Gary, thanks a lot for doing that... and i trust you completely. However, I'm pretty certain we don't have wideband O2's in the car. Engine management has been established and refined for years by Ford and others and there's no way they could have switched without MAJOR hype on the internet or elsewhere. (Alternatively you may have the Shane luck and discover something that no one has, LOL!)

I think that are two possibilities for what you are getting. First (and most likely?), is that whatever you are using to read the A/F's is extrapolating based on the O2 voltage slope (terribly unreliable, BTW). Alternatively, maybe you are reading targetted AF's (not actual) although I don't think these target values are in the ECU.

Someone smarter than me may know what's going on.

cloud9

Kendall I'm far from an expert, but I thought it WAS all over the internet that they started putting factory widebands in on the GT500 and 5.0s. Here's a link from another forum from a Lethal ad.

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...f-off-pcm.html

Here's another from 5.0 Magazine http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec...rhead_pcm.html

I could be wrong but I've been told by many and have also read it many places that there are wideband O2s in the new Mustangs.

Ronin38

To quote Gomer Pyle, "Well Goooollllyyy!" I did see those available on my Interceptor Gauge, I guess I'll have start monitoring those now!

Now that I have an SCT tuner, I found that it does seem to be able to monitor Trans. Temp. and Selected Gear (auto here!), so I'm going to pass that along to Aeroforce and see if there's something they can do to read that.

nota4re

By Golly!!!! You're right! (AGAIN!)

cloud9

Yea the auto trans guys apparently can pick up trans temp but not the manuals.

JScheier

Gary... I know you were tracking ECT (engine coolant temp)... did you ever try the CHT (cylinder Head Temp) to see how those were tracking?

cloud9

Unfortunately it doesn't pick that up from OBDII. There is presumably a sensor for that going to the PCM right? There's a parameter for reading it on the gauge but it doesn't pick it up. Same holds true for Trans Temp, oil temp and pressure.

JScheier

From what I've read. If I ever get my car back, I'll start looking for it. Usually in the intake valley towards the rear of the head.

Can't believe they aren't picking the oil values up.... on a "track car with a license plate" you'd think they'd want to black-box that info for warranty.

Dean#4AI

Didn't I read that the OBDII ECT reading is actually pulling the temp from the cylinder heads?

cloud9

I remember seeing that too, but I thought it was you that pointed it out Dean IIRC the discussion centered on the fact that if you had a radiator or hose failure and the system lost all the cooling, the PCM wouldn't have any fluid to measure so it read it as CHT?

2012-LS134

Assuming the 2012 Boss 5.0 is insturmented the same as the 2011 GT 5.0 I checked the 2011 service manuals

http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=499

The 2011 Mustang service wiring manual does not show a ECT sensor for the 5.0, only the CHT sensor (section 024, page 6 of 11).

The 5.4 has both sensors (section 025, pages 4 & 5 of 14).

2012-LS134

I called Rehagen Racing this week and talked with Shaun about air-to-oil coolers.

First he confirmed that the Boss 302S does not use the water-to-oil cooler as on our street Boss cars. The 302S uses an air-to-oil cooler.

He is not surprised to hear that the Boss 302’s are running hot – the standard 5.0 is a hot running engine. In his opinion, the water-to-oil cooler system is OK for mild track duty, but beyond that is not up to the task.

He said they used an air-to-oil cooler on the AI Mustang GT 5.0 they raced in 2010. At first when they started running high engine and oil temperatures they tried a larger radiator with some success, but it did not completely solve the heat issues. Next they installed the oil-to-air cooler and both the water and oil temperatures dropped to where they wanted them to be, even after they reinstalled the original radiator. The only time they see oil temperatures approaching 300 F in racing conditions is when the car is in dead air behind other cars. As soon as the car can move into clean air the temperatures rapidly drop back to normal. Based on Rehagen’s 2010 experience he expects the installation of a air-to-oil cooler will slay the overheating issues experienced with the street Boss being driven like a racecar with a license plate.

Rehagen’s air-to-oil cooler kit uses the Ford Racing 2011-2012 5.0L 4V Remote Oil Filter Adaptor -- M-6881-M50 on the engine block. The stock water-to-air cooler is removed to install the adapter. A remote filter head is mounted on the frame rails and the cooler is mounted in front of the A/C condenser. All the pieces are linked to together with 5/8” Aeroquip Starlite racing hose and 10AN fittings. The hose routing is from the engine to the frame rail where the remote filter head is mounted, around the side of the radiator to the cooler. The oil flows from the engine to the cooler back to the filter and then to the engine. The kit still sells for $695 for all the parts unassembled. Add $75 ($770) if you want them to cut the hoses to length and install the 10AN fittings.
https://themustangsource.com/f726/oil-cooler-now-available-rehagen-racing-5-0-a-488520/

Rehagen’s kit does not include a thermostat bypass. This is OK for a race driven car, but for an occasional track and street driven car a thermostatic bypass is recommended so as to not over cool the oil. One possibility is a MOCAL OT2 oil thermostat.
http://www.batinc.net/thermos.htm
The thermostat does not close the passage to the cooler, it opens an alternative path with less pressure drop so most of the oil by-passes the oil cooler. Installing the MOCAL OT2 oil thermostat will require 4 additional 10An fittings ~ + $230 for the fittings and oil thermostat. Ballpark looks to be about $1000 for the parts.

For a flow schematic with the MOCAL OT2 oil thermostat see System 2....
http://www.merlinmotorsport.com/Technical/mocaloiltech.htm

I have all the bits on order. I am looking forward to a hot Texas sweaty summer day in the garage to take the front facia apart of my NEW racecar with a license plate to install the new bits, ugh!

cloud9

Thanks for being another pioneer. Jscheier is going with the FRPP radiator M-8005-MGT http://bossmustangsonline.com/boss-3...ooling-mod/60/

I really appreciate both you guys efforts at solving this. I can't wait to hear about your results.

2012-LS134

Thanks for the words of encouragement.

Oops, I forgot one needed part. The lower radiator hose from a Mustang GT 5.0. Ford part number BR3Z-8286-BA, list $53.22. My dealer did not have it in stock, nor did any of the regional Ford part distribution centers. The part has to come out of the Ford central supply and will take about 5 days to get here.

adam81

I am applauding LS134 and JScheier.... Thanks for being one of the firsts to not only shell out the money but keeping the rest of us in the loop on the outcome. A very good buddy of mine has the 302S and he has told me some of the differences his car has versus the street car.

I have said this numerous times....an upgraded radiator and air to oil cooler is what we will need to run hard on the track.

Someone needs to create an effective, bolt-on, reasonably priced, air to oil cooler. $1000 is a bit steep..... something like this

LateApex

I agree, thanks for being Magellan 2.0 on this! Can't wait to see your results.

JScheier

I pieced one together for my 86GT (347cu, 420 rwhp... 2300lbs ). Was under $500. Rather large fluidyne cooler (16"x6"x3") with AN lines and a sandwich adapter (thermostatic). With Reghan putting the labor into cutting the lines, etc, $700 is a pretty good price (AN lines are a PITB to cut & assemble if you don't have the proper tools). I don't think a cheaper plate type cooler is going to do much. That's my $.02.

VegasGold

How can these cars be sold with this problem? I thought they were Race cars with a license plate? I seen all the marketing videos etc, and thought everything was figured out before they sold them...

I guess they just make them good enough to get the $$$ and no more...