TrackDay ButtonWillow 105 Degrees
7/16/11, 03:49 PM
#81
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An interesting data point for sure. I am not familiar with Eagle Creek Ranch. Where and how long is it? If you were shifting into 4th it must not have a long straight. Were you running above 4500 RPM in the lower gears?
I'll second the comment about the OEM guages. These guages have been dumbed down over the years so as not to upset the average car owner who gets concerned when the needles move. Some of the guages are heavily damped and some are just another form of idiot light that is controled by a switch. For instance, the OEM oil pressure guage in my 98 Cobra is an example. When the oil pressure hits 6 psi, the needle on the guage moves to the center. Other than that it never moves.
I'll second the comment about the OEM guages. These guages have been dumbed down over the years so as not to upset the average car owner who gets concerned when the needles move. Some of the guages are heavily damped and some are just another form of idiot light that is controled by a switch. For instance, the OEM oil pressure guage in my 98 Cobra is an example. When the oil pressure hits 6 psi, the needle on the guage moves to the center. Other than that it never moves.
7/16/11, 10:54 PM
#83
V6 Member
[QUOTE=2012-LS134;6106786]An interesting data point for sure. I am not familiar with Eagle Creek Ranch. Where and how long is it? QUOTE]
I am thinking you meant "Eagles Canyon Raceway" instead of "Eagle Creek Ranch".
https://themustangsource.com/f813/eagle-canyon-raceway-track-day-vids-496677/
Obviously there is plenty of room to get into high RPMs and build up engine heat. The question stands - why did you and the guy in the 5.0 Coyote Mustang GT not over heat then & why Boss's in Nebraska and California are overheating? hmmmm
Eagles Canyon Raceway
Long Course Length: 2.5 miles Short Course Length: 1.7 miles Track Width: 40 feet, 50 feet on grid Number of Turns:11Number of Straights:6Longest Straight: 2,000 feet Elevation Change:70 feet Primary Run Direction: Counter-clockwise
http://www.eaglescanyon.com/2008/facilities.php
I am thinking you meant "Eagles Canyon Raceway" instead of "Eagle Creek Ranch".
https://themustangsource.com/f813/eagle-canyon-raceway-track-day-vids-496677/
Obviously there is plenty of room to get into high RPMs and build up engine heat. The question stands - why did you and the guy in the 5.0 Coyote Mustang GT not over heat then & why Boss's in Nebraska and California are overheating? hmmmm
Eagles Canyon Raceway
Long Course Length: 2.5 miles Short Course Length: 1.7 miles Track Width: 40 feet, 50 feet on grid Number of Turns:11Number of Straights:6Longest Straight: 2,000 feet Elevation Change:70 feet Primary Run Direction: Counter-clockwise
http://www.eaglescanyon.com/2008/facilities.php
7/16/11, 11:46 PM
#84
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[QUOTE=2012-LS134;6107104]
yes that is exactly the track, my wife and i used to live in an apartment complex years and years ago called eagle creek ranch lol, for some reason i always want to call eagles canyon raceway the apartment name.
anyway, the instructors call it a technical track with fast straights. that link above is the day i am talkign about, we were on the full course. idk, there were a bunch of stangs there, the 5.0 brembo dude was the fastest, i was the fastest in the noob class, but i had a friend there with a normal 5.0 and there were two more as well and no one had overheat issues. i'm just wondering if there is something similar with the guys that overheated versus those of us in similar conditions that didn't. idk, maybe the guys that overheated were just driving harder. i keep thinking there should be a way for us to put issues on these cars in a group with those in similar climates and figure out if its an overheating issue, something with driving style, or a quirk of the track that causes problems. is there ever any tuning differences on cars based on where they are being shipped? if cars going to colder climates get block heaters. could cars going where its in the 90-105 range more than half the year get some tweak that could account for better cooling? something as simple as a different thermostat or a lower temp setting for the fan?
An interesting data point for sure. I am not familiar with Eagle Creek Ranch. Where and how long is it? QUOTE]
I am thinking you meant "Eagles Canyon Raceway" instead of "Eagle Creek Ranch".
https://themustangsource.com/f813/eagle-canyon-raceway-track-day-vids-496677/
Obviously there is plenty of room to get into high RPMs and build up engine heat. The question stands - why did you and the guy in the 5.0 Coyote Mustang GT not over heat then & why Boss's in Nebraska and California are overheating? hmmmm
Eagles Canyon Raceway
Long Course Length: 2.5 miles Short Course Length: 1.7 miles Track Width: 40 feet, 50 feet on grid Number of Turns:11Number of Straights:6Longest Straight: 2,000 feet Elevation Change:70 feet Primary Run Direction: Counter-clockwise
http://www.eaglescanyon.com/2008/facilities.php
I am thinking you meant "Eagles Canyon Raceway" instead of "Eagle Creek Ranch".
https://themustangsource.com/f813/eagle-canyon-raceway-track-day-vids-496677/
Obviously there is plenty of room to get into high RPMs and build up engine heat. The question stands - why did you and the guy in the 5.0 Coyote Mustang GT not over heat then & why Boss's in Nebraska and California are overheating? hmmmm
Eagles Canyon Raceway
Long Course Length: 2.5 miles Short Course Length: 1.7 miles Track Width: 40 feet, 50 feet on grid Number of Turns:11Number of Straights:6Longest Straight: 2,000 feet Elevation Change:70 feet Primary Run Direction: Counter-clockwise
http://www.eaglescanyon.com/2008/facilities.php
anyway, the instructors call it a technical track with fast straights. that link above is the day i am talkign about, we were on the full course. idk, there were a bunch of stangs there, the 5.0 brembo dude was the fastest, i was the fastest in the noob class, but i had a friend there with a normal 5.0 and there were two more as well and no one had overheat issues. i'm just wondering if there is something similar with the guys that overheated versus those of us in similar conditions that didn't. idk, maybe the guys that overheated were just driving harder. i keep thinking there should be a way for us to put issues on these cars in a group with those in similar climates and figure out if its an overheating issue, something with driving style, or a quirk of the track that causes problems. is there ever any tuning differences on cars based on where they are being shipped? if cars going to colder climates get block heaters. could cars going where its in the 90-105 range more than half the year get some tweak that could account for better cooling? something as simple as a different thermostat or a lower temp setting for the fan?
Last edited by ShaneM; 7/16/11 at 11:50 PM.
7/17/11, 06:26 AM
#85
V6 Member
[QUOTE=ShaneM;6107112]
...the instructors call it a technical track with fast straights. that link above is the day i am talkign about, we were on the full course. idk, there were a bunch of stangs there, the 5.0 brembo dude was the fastest, i was the fastest in the noob class, but i had a friend there with a normal 5.0 and there were two more as well and no one had overheat issues. i'm just wondering if there is something similar with the guys that overheated versus those of us in similar conditions that didn't. idk, maybe the guys that overheated were just driving harder. i keep thinking there should be a way for us to put issues on these cars in a group with those in similar climates and figure out if its an overheating issue, something with driving style, or a quirk of the track that causes problems. is there ever any tuning differences on cars based on where they are being shipped? if cars going to colder climates get block heaters. could cars going where its in the 90-105 range more than half the year get some tweak that could account for better cooling? something as simple as a different thermostat or a lower temp setting for the fan?
This is a puzzle for sure. Your lookin good in the noob class and will get faster each time you go out to the track.
Were your other Mustang friends in the noob class too -or- are they experienced faster drivers?
Did you talk to the hot shoe in the Brembo 5.0 GT? Has he modded his cooling system?
I would expect the cars to all be built and programed the same - it would be way too complicated to do so for the very little difference in performance AND for the small number off car buyers that will be driving their cars on a track at race speeds.
...the instructors call it a technical track with fast straights. that link above is the day i am talkign about, we were on the full course. idk, there were a bunch of stangs there, the 5.0 brembo dude was the fastest, i was the fastest in the noob class, but i had a friend there with a normal 5.0 and there were two more as well and no one had overheat issues. i'm just wondering if there is something similar with the guys that overheated versus those of us in similar conditions that didn't. idk, maybe the guys that overheated were just driving harder. i keep thinking there should be a way for us to put issues on these cars in a group with those in similar climates and figure out if its an overheating issue, something with driving style, or a quirk of the track that causes problems. is there ever any tuning differences on cars based on where they are being shipped? if cars going to colder climates get block heaters. could cars going where its in the 90-105 range more than half the year get some tweak that could account for better cooling? something as simple as a different thermostat or a lower temp setting for the fan?
Were your other Mustang friends in the noob class too -or- are they experienced faster drivers?
Did you talk to the hot shoe in the Brembo 5.0 GT? Has he modded his cooling system?
I would expect the cars to all be built and programed the same - it would be way too complicated to do so for the very little difference in performance AND for the small number off car buyers that will be driving their cars on a track at race speeds.
7/17/11, 08:49 AM
#86
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[QUOTE=2012-LS134;6107165]
This is a puzzle for sure. Your lookin good in the noob class and will get faster each time you go out to the track.
Were your other Mustang friends in the noob class too -or- are they experienced faster drivers?
Did you talk to the hot shoe in the Brembo 5.0 GT? Has he modded his cooling system?
I would expect the cars to all be built and programed the same - it would be way too complicated to do so for the very little difference in performance AND for the small number off car buyers that will be driving their cars on a track at race speeds.
the 5.0 guy was box stock save for dot 4 fluid and a cai/tune. yes the other guys were in my noob group. i don't know the capabilities of the other LS drivers that had the problem, I wonder if they were running in a pack that might have added to the overheat issue. all i know is i was pushing as hard as i could and a little too hard frequently the instructor had to tell me as you can hear on the video i was going too fast a few times. he tried to send me solo the last session but the head instructor wouldn't let him solo me from the green group my first time on a road course. i'm so bummed that they cancelled this months track day, i'm like a track day crack head now and i'm having withdrawls.
This is a puzzle for sure. Your lookin good in the noob class and will get faster each time you go out to the track.
Were your other Mustang friends in the noob class too -or- are they experienced faster drivers?
Did you talk to the hot shoe in the Brembo 5.0 GT? Has he modded his cooling system?
I would expect the cars to all be built and programed the same - it would be way too complicated to do so for the very little difference in performance AND for the small number off car buyers that will be driving their cars on a track at race speeds.
7/17/11, 09:48 AM
#87
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Regarding the LS's in California during the track day, I would say the cars were driven in the intermediate class all-day. 2 of 3 of the LS experienced limp mode during the peak temperatures (105F) during the day - but only once each. Mine never experienced limp mode because 1) I admittedly wasn't as fast as the other two, and; 2) I was really monitoring coolant temps and was backing off at 240F.
My theory of the differences between the different tracks/different days and approx similar ambient temps?? Simple. I think that with only the OEM water temp gauge in the center of the dash, perhaps none of us would have known how hot the temps were getting. It is only with the LS extra water temp gauges that we can see the 240-250F temps. Without the gauge, we probably woul have had only one limp mode event in the peak of the day in 2 of 3 cars, but the rest of the time, we would have thought we were OK.
Simply stated, I think all of the cars are running "hot" - but maybe not by the definition of the Ford Engineers. LS owners have a better chance to see true temps and thats the big difference. I would speculate that oil temps were in the 270-300F range based on where we saw coolant temps.
My theory of the differences between the different tracks/different days and approx similar ambient temps?? Simple. I think that with only the OEM water temp gauge in the center of the dash, perhaps none of us would have known how hot the temps were getting. It is only with the LS extra water temp gauges that we can see the 240-250F temps. Without the gauge, we probably woul have had only one limp mode event in the peak of the day in 2 of 3 cars, but the rest of the time, we would have thought we were OK.
Simply stated, I think all of the cars are running "hot" - but maybe not by the definition of the Ford Engineers. LS owners have a better chance to see true temps and thats the big difference. I would speculate that oil temps were in the 270-300F range based on where we saw coolant temps.
7/17/11, 09:55 AM
#88
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Simply stated, I think all of the cars are running "hot" - but maybe not by the definition of the Ford Engineers. LS owners have a better chance to see true temps and thats the big difference. I would speculate that oil temps were in the 270-300F range based on where we saw coolant temps.
7/17/11, 11:31 AM
#89
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Regarding the LS's in California during the track day, I would say the cars were driven in the intermediate class all-day. 2 of 3 of the LS experienced limp mode during the peak temperatures (105F) during the day - but only once each. Mine never experienced limp mode because 1) I admittedly wasn't as fast as the other two, and; 2) I was really monitoring coolant temps and was backing off at 240F.
My theory of the differences between the different tracks/different days and approx similar ambient temps?? Simple. I think that with only the OEM water temp gauge in the center of the dash, perhaps none of us would have known how hot the temps were getting. It is only with the LS extra water temp gauges that we can see the 240-250F temps. Without the gauge, we probably woul have had only one limp mode event in the peak of the day in 2 of 3 cars, but the rest of the time, we would have thought we were OK.
Simply stated, I think all of the cars are running "hot" - but maybe not by the definition of the Ford Engineers. LS owners have a better chance to see true temps and thats the big difference. I would speculate that oil temps were in the 270-300F range based on where we saw coolant temps.
My theory of the differences between the different tracks/different days and approx similar ambient temps?? Simple. I think that with only the OEM water temp gauge in the center of the dash, perhaps none of us would have known how hot the temps were getting. It is only with the LS extra water temp gauges that we can see the 240-250F temps. Without the gauge, we probably woul have had only one limp mode event in the peak of the day in 2 of 3 cars, but the rest of the time, we would have thought we were OK.
Simply stated, I think all of the cars are running "hot" - but maybe not by the definition of the Ford Engineers. LS owners have a better chance to see true temps and thats the big difference. I would speculate that oil temps were in the 270-300F range based on where we saw coolant temps.
7/17/11, 01:08 PM
#90
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Gary, can you display oil temperature on the Aeroforce without additional sensors? Their webpage implies it can, though it says not widely supported by Fords.
Besides ECT, what is the second most useful parameter you can display for the track?
Besides ECT, what is the second most useful parameter you can display for the track?
7/17/11, 01:35 PM
#91
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Regarding the LS's in California during the track day, I would say the cars were driven in the intermediate class all-day. 2 of 3 of the LS experienced limp mode during the peak temperatures (105F) during the day - but only once each. Mine never experienced limp mode because 1) I admittedly wasn't as fast as the other two, and; 2) I was really monitoring coolant temps and was backing off at 240F.
My theory of the differences between the different tracks/different days and approx similar ambient temps?? Simple. I think that with only the OEM water temp gauge in the center of the dash, perhaps none of us would have known how hot the temps were getting. It is only with the LS extra water temp gauges that we can see the 240-250F temps. Without the gauge, we probably woul have had only one limp mode event in the peak of the day in 2 of 3 cars, but the rest of the time, we would have thought we were OK.
Simply stated, I think all of the cars are running "hot" - but maybe not by the definition of the Ford Engineers. LS owners have a better chance to see true temps and thats the big difference. I would speculate that oil temps were in the 270-300F range based on where we saw coolant temps.
My theory of the differences between the different tracks/different days and approx similar ambient temps?? Simple. I think that with only the OEM water temp gauge in the center of the dash, perhaps none of us would have known how hot the temps were getting. It is only with the LS extra water temp gauges that we can see the 240-250F temps. Without the gauge, we probably woul have had only one limp mode event in the peak of the day in 2 of 3 cars, but the rest of the time, we would have thought we were OK.
Simply stated, I think all of the cars are running "hot" - but maybe not by the definition of the Ford Engineers. LS owners have a better chance to see true temps and thats the big difference. I would speculate that oil temps were in the 270-300F range based on where we saw coolant temps.
the point i was getting at wasn't that my temp gauge didn't go higher than normal as much as the fact that we were on the track in similar conditions and didn't hit limp mode.
7/17/11, 02:00 PM
#92
Yes, but you only have the dummy gauge, and probably weren't pushing nearly as hard as someone with a lot more track experience.
7/17/11, 02:08 PM
#93
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7/17/11, 02:49 PM
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Right now I don't have a good second option. I am currently displaying IAT (intake air temp) but I've been pleasantly surprised to see it usually runs right at ambient or maybe 1 or 2 degrees higher. Our problem isn't bringing in cool air. I'd like to add an oil temp sensor but haven't figured out yet where to locate it. You can read A/F, but I've never been too worried about watching that especially with a factory tune. I was able to read more parameters on my GT500 than I can on the Boss. It has a parameter for trans temp, but it doesn't display on the Boss. I guess there's no sender for that either......
7/17/11, 03:07 PM
#95
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Since the Boss in OEM form has no provision to measure engine oil temp, trans oil temp, rear end temp, or air/fuel ratio - the Aeroforce or any other type of gauge will need an additional sensor for each/any of these.
7/17/11, 03:22 PM
#96
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Right now I don't have a good second option. I am currently displaying IAT (intake air temp) but I've been pleasantly surprised to see it usually runs right at ambient or maybe 1 or 2 degrees higher. Our problem isn't bringing in cool air. I'd like to add an oil temp sensor but haven't figured out yet where to locate it. You can read A/F, but I've never been too worried about watching that especially with a factory tune. I was able to read more parameters on my GT500 than I can on the Boss. It has a parameter for trans temp, but it doesn't display on the Boss. I guess there's no sender for that either......
7/17/11, 03:45 PM
#98
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The Boss has an oil pressure sensor, but it goes to the ECU/idiot light on the dash. This sensor get replaced when the LS gauge pod is installed. I guess there's no oil temp sense.
I know I had the same reaction when I found out. Yea you can monitor both banks right from OBDII