Ecostang

Are those numbers pumping from the trunk? I would be happy with 5-6 gpm if so. I'm planning on eventually being around 25 psi boost, but I'll start out around 20-22 psi.

Ecostang

Pic of the pump heat exchanger combo, I'm sure most know what it looks like but I'll post it anyway.

sqidd

Yes.

No, you won't.

At 5-6gpm you will boil the water in the intercoolers.

Rodsmustang

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of money do you have in this project. I wish you lived near me, I would dig checking this project out in person over a few beers. I'll buy!!!

Ecostang

It seems unlikely to me with that flow rate but if you have had prior experience I'm open to changing my mind. That's 2.5-3 gpm per intercooler, each intercooler is fairly small, I couldn't see it holding more than 1/4 to 1/2 gallon. So we should be doing a water change 10-12 times per minute, that doesn't a give very much time for the water to be heated to boiling temps. Water boils at 212f this means the water would go from 120f (hottest I hope to see without ice) to 220f in 5 seconds or so. I just don't see the air temps being so far above 212f that it could boil the water in 5 seconds. I could be wrong, it's happened before

I've got a buddy with a 2010 gt500 supercharged with the same factory water pump, no second pump, and he pushes 750 rwhp. Do you think he is boiling the water in his intercooler? He's running 17 psi.

I'm not too concerned, switching pumps is easy. I'll get it running with this setup and makes adjustments as necessary.

Ecostang

Thanks for the offer, I'm in Boulder so it's a good drive for you

All in I'll have 25-30k in the entire car for phase 1, I paid $10k for the car wrecked and spent $5k fixing it. Cars only got 9k miles, fully loaded, glass roof, so I paid a little extra for that.

Phase 2 I'll have around 45-50k, but that will include full race suspension and a stroked motor with around 650 rwhp.

To be honest I'll never know exactly, not really keeping up with it.

Ecostang

I really didn't think much about this because I just assumed it would work based on what I wrote. With that said I found all the calculations online to figure it out, I'll put a pencil to it tomorrow when my brain isn't so tired and see what I come up with. I'll calculate the exiting air temp for the turbos, this will be the first critical step in figuring this out. Then I'll try and figure out the efficiency of the heat exchangers, then estimate more accurately the water temps based on different ambient conditions, then calculate the temp rise on the water at different flow rates. Sounds fun lol

Ecostang

No time to worry about intercooler water temps right now, I'm focusing on getting this engine running.

In helping a friend install a 5.8 in his mustang, we had to change out the harnesses for the swap. I learned a lot about how my car is wired, I feel like there is not much mystery left in what I need to do. I bought a 2012 f150 engine bay harness and I already had the engine harness. I also bought a 2010 mustang engine bay harness. The idea is to combine the 2 harnesses to make one custom harness that will operate everything. I've been studying this and it seems this is the only way. I can buy the control pack in a few months but it won't control the car. That being the case it makes more sense for me to use the f150 ecu and harnesses to get this done.

As of today I have leaned a tremendous amount about what I'm trying to accomplish, and although the wiring harnesses look intimidating I'm actually quite confident now. I stripped all the wire loom and tape off the f150 harness and labeled everything, it helps that I have an ecoboost truck.

In the pic is the f150 harness on the bottom and mustang harness on the top.

Ecostang

5.8 trinity engine, going in a 2010 mustang almost identical to mine. This will be a fun swap too!

LEXiiON

I guess so

I finished the body harness swap today, got the rear trim and seats installed. I need to wait for a couple of parts before I can put the dash back in.
Then off to the engine...
Thanks for helping out on Saturday!!

LEXiiON

Ecostang

I was going to let you remain anonymous if you wanted to be, the cats out of the bag now!

No problem, I learned a lot from the experience. It was well worth it and I'm glad I could help.

I spent almost all day today studying my truck, the engine harness, and the mustang. Just like with your project I discovered a few new surprises, had to order 2 more wire harnesses and a $300 vacuum pump (2011/2012 ecoboost only). There's a harness that runs from the engine bay to the fuel pump and tail lights, found a used one for $30. Also ordered the tail light harness for $12 just in case we needed the plugs.

LEXiiON

I am pretty sure folks on here know what I am doing... So no need to remain anonymous...
Great to see the progress on your end, too. We will get this puppy rolling under its own power soon

LEXiiON

sqidd

6 seconds is an eternity.

It will.

At 20psi your turbo discharge temps will be about 375deg. That's a lot higher than 212.

Yes, he is boiling the water. And his IAT's suck. He isn't making 750hp driving around on the street. More like 625-650hp.

Line size is just as if not more important than pump choice. It's a lot easier to do line size correctly from the start.

sqidd

Holy moly! Better you than me!!!!

Ecostang

Thanks for the tips!

Well 375F is pretty warm for sure, it will be higher than that if things go right.

Your right on the pipe size, I absolutely understand pipe size and flow rates. We size hydronic systems at work but with huge pumps. I considered going 1" but it just won't fit without having it hang down too far underneath the car or I would need to run it through the the interior, which I don't want to do. I insulated all the 3/4" pipe which makes it roughly 1.5", the reason I did that is to protect the pipe under the car and when I use ice it won't condensate and drip all over the track. If you had any suggestions on how to do this I'm open to it, sounds like you may have done this before. I'm not too committed at this point, only spent an hour or so on it and I'm not finished.

If you have any pictures of how someone else got bigger pipes in there please share

sqidd

What size is the inlet/outlet of the intercoolers?

Ecostang

Its 3/4" on each, a manifold could be made with 3/4 x 3/4 x 1" for the supply and return, that's pretty simple. I'm more concerned about routing the larger hose from front to back and where it gets mounted. The tank has 1" connections.

I do have some soldering fabrication skills, I could actually make a single piece of copper pipe custom bent from front to back. At work we make custom copper pieces all the time for HVAC products. I'm pretty sure the hand bender goes up to 1". If I change the hose I would probably try and make a copper piece.

Any of the 3/4" pipe I replaced with 1" would increase flow, so even if I could replace half of the 3/4" to 1" would probably make a significant difference. Very short pieces of 3/4" wouldn't really be detrimental, it's the long runs that make it restrictive. If I didn't have to insulate the pipe I would have room for sure, but copper is going to condensate more than the rubber.

I have engineers at work that can calculate this, I may have them give me a couple of scenarios just for fun.

sqidd

It would help to gauge everything you can up to 1" or bigger (I prefer 1.25"). But you will still be dealing with the 3/4" restrictions at the HE, IC's and Bosch pump. I would be shocked if you saw more than 8gpm. SHOCKED! The problem is that the Bosch pump doesn't move much volume. It makes decent pressure (compared to most other pumps that make none) but it simply doesn't move much water. The Rule pump flows pretty good through 1" line but it gets absolutely whacked when faced with any sort of restriction. And you have a lot of restrictions.

To get the type of water flow you want you need to re-think the entire setup. You have a couple of ways of going about it:

-Big *** 1.25" lines and a pump(s) that work well with that size line. With a Davies Craig EWP150 you will see about 12gpm. With the Lingenfelter pump you will see about 16gpm.

-Medium size lines (1") and a pump that will work well with that which is the $550 Lingenfelter pump. You will see about 14gpm.

-Your small lines (3/4") and the Lingenfelter pump that will out perform anything out there at that line size by a mile. You will see about 12gpm.

For reference sake I like to see 20+gpm when dealing with the boost levels you run at. And to answer your next question, yes, just about everything out there under performs and has crap IAT's.

Ecostang

Very good info, thank you for helping me with this. I will rethink the design, maybe I can run dual 1" supplies and dual 1" returns instead, with a pump on each run. I'll have to reduce to a single pipe for the heat exchanger, but that's probably the best I can do. I could put 2 rule pumps inside the tank, what do you think? Would I need more pump than that? I may need to eliminate the gt500 pump completely since it would be a restriction once flow went higher.

sqidd

Those Rule pumps are useless with restrictions, and you can't eliminate your restrictions. Two pumps won't work any better than one.

I hate to say it because it's not what you want to hear, but there is no "budget" way of getting your system to perform like you need it to. If I was you I would run the Lingenfelter pump and as much 1" line as possible and be done with it. Short of gauging up the IC's and HE that is as good as it will get.