bubbling hood paint... UGH!!
1/6/15, 11:31 PM
#181
legacy Tms Member
Tony, you should know more about what you are taking about...
aircraft grade aluminum is a marketing ploy. aircraft are made from a variety of aluminum materials including 5052, 2024, and 6061 alloys, with various tempers, among others. Some of these are alclad, meaning they have a coating of pure aluminum (around 2% of metal thickness iirc) applied to each side and i highly doubt ford spent money on that. Best i could find is the f150 is using a 6xxx series aluminum.
Corrosion = any metal that is oxidizing (and other materials but i am focusing on the topic at hand). "Rust" is not a technical term but often used to describe corrosion on ferrous metals and the resultant red-ish colored appearance.
For corrosion to occur, four things are needed; an anode, a cathode, a conductor (could be a single piece of metal due to impurities, or two pieces of the same of different material fastened together) and an electrolyte (commonly water in the automotive world) but is anything with dissolved oxygen content and will allow electrons to flow. This is why deeply sunken ships corrode slowly (along with low temps) there is generally less dissolved oxygen the deeper the water is.
There must be exposed metal on the inside portion of the hood and condensation is allowing corrosion to occur even on cars not exposed to weather (i.e: the member with the 4 mile 09)
the bottom line is if the f150 is using the same manufacturing process as the mustang hood, it is highly likely to incur the same result.
I have an 08 bullitt with 52k miles and noticed bubbles when cleaning the bottom of the hood this past summer
I am a retired (24 years) USAF aircraft structural maintainer
aircraft grade aluminum is a marketing ploy. aircraft are made from a variety of aluminum materials including 5052, 2024, and 6061 alloys, with various tempers, among others. Some of these are alclad, meaning they have a coating of pure aluminum (around 2% of metal thickness iirc) applied to each side and i highly doubt ford spent money on that. Best i could find is the f150 is using a 6xxx series aluminum.
Corrosion = any metal that is oxidizing (and other materials but i am focusing on the topic at hand). "Rust" is not a technical term but often used to describe corrosion on ferrous metals and the resultant red-ish colored appearance.
For corrosion to occur, four things are needed; an anode, a cathode, a conductor (could be a single piece of metal due to impurities, or two pieces of the same of different material fastened together) and an electrolyte (commonly water in the automotive world) but is anything with dissolved oxygen content and will allow electrons to flow. This is why deeply sunken ships corrode slowly (along with low temps) there is generally less dissolved oxygen the deeper the water is.
There must be exposed metal on the inside portion of the hood and condensation is allowing corrosion to occur even on cars not exposed to weather (i.e: the member with the 4 mile 09)
the bottom line is if the f150 is using the same manufacturing process as the mustang hood, it is highly likely to incur the same result.
I have an 08 bullitt with 52k miles and noticed bubbles when cleaning the bottom of the hood this past summer
I am a retired (24 years) USAF aircraft structural maintainer
full of questions- *if* corrosion is found under a riveted joint in a airframe, how is it stopped? any special acids/'magic primers'/etc to halt it, or is separation required as a first step? I use phosphoric acid on steel, used it on the white corrosion under the hoods, seems to do something, but is there a better acid to etch with? on steel phosphoric boils on rust, and stinks pretty good...on aluminum, it bubbled just a little, didnt try muriatic acid or diluted sulfuric acid for fear of eating a hole thru something, but never thought about airframes... surely they see corrosion and deal with it like we do rust on cars-
any suggestions/comments sure welcomed- oh, and welcome to TMS 9 yrs later
1/7/15, 01:01 PM
#182
Legacy TMS Member
Notice that I used the term "aircraft grade aluminum" in quotes in my previous response, primarily because a) that's what has been written in various articles describing the material, and b) there are no doubts some compromises in the material in order to be cost effective for mass production. What those are, of course, I don't know. However, I wasn't implying that what I wrote was a definitive statement on the aluminum. That wasn't clear in my written response.
I was told by a Ford representative, however, that the aluminum for the S550 hoods was different than the S197 version, and the manufacturing process was different. The specifics weren't mentioned since we were in a public place, and I think I caught him a bit off guard with the question.
I appreciate the additional information you provide below. I certainly hope Ford has been diligent in their testing and production processes so that the bubbling doesn't re-appear on the new Mustang, as well as the new F-series.
I was told by a Ford representative, however, that the aluminum for the S550 hoods was different than the S197 version, and the manufacturing process was different. The specifics weren't mentioned since we were in a public place, and I think I caught him a bit off guard with the question.
I appreciate the additional information you provide below. I certainly hope Ford has been diligent in their testing and production processes so that the bubbling doesn't re-appear on the new Mustang, as well as the new F-series.
Aircraft grade aluminum is a marketing ploy. aircraft are made from a variety of aluminum materials including 5052, 2024, and 6061 alloys, with various tempers, among others. Some of these are alclad, meaning they have a coating of pure aluminum (around 2% of metal thickness iirc) applied to each side and i highly doubt ford spent money on that. Best i could find is the f150 is using a 6xxx series aluminum.
Corrosion = any metal that is oxidizing (and other materials but i am focusing on the topic at hand). "Rust" is not a technical term but often used to describe corrosion on ferrous metals and the resultant red-ish colored appearance.
For corrosion to occur, four things are needed; an anode, a cathode, a conductor (could be a single piece of metal due to impurities, or two pieces of the same of different material fastened together) and an electrolyte (commonly water in the automotive world) but is anything with dissolved oxygen content and will allow electrons to flow. This is why deeply sunken ships corrode slowly (along with low temps) there is generally less dissolved oxygen the deeper the water is.
There must be exposed metal on the inside portion of the hood and condensation is allowing corrosion to occur even on cars not exposed to weather (i.e: the member with the 4 mile 09)
the bottom line is if the f150 is using the same manufacturing process as the mustang hood, it is highly likely to incur the same result.
I have an 08 bullitt with 52k miles and noticed bubbles when cleaning the bottom of the hood this past summer
I am a retired (24 years) USAF aircraft structural maintainer
Corrosion = any metal that is oxidizing (and other materials but i am focusing on the topic at hand). "Rust" is not a technical term but often used to describe corrosion on ferrous metals and the resultant red-ish colored appearance.
For corrosion to occur, four things are needed; an anode, a cathode, a conductor (could be a single piece of metal due to impurities, or two pieces of the same of different material fastened together) and an electrolyte (commonly water in the automotive world) but is anything with dissolved oxygen content and will allow electrons to flow. This is why deeply sunken ships corrode slowly (along with low temps) there is generally less dissolved oxygen the deeper the water is.
There must be exposed metal on the inside portion of the hood and condensation is allowing corrosion to occur even on cars not exposed to weather (i.e: the member with the 4 mile 09)
the bottom line is if the f150 is using the same manufacturing process as the mustang hood, it is highly likely to incur the same result.
I have an 08 bullitt with 52k miles and noticed bubbles when cleaning the bottom of the hood this past summer
I am a retired (24 years) USAF aircraft structural maintainer
1/19/15, 06:46 AM
#183
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Blistering hood
This really eye opening. I felt like I was the only dealing with issue but now I see its a ford issue. I am a life long ford guy. I have been driving and owning cars for 30 years. In that time I have owned exactly six cars, all mustangs. What can I say I like what I like. My dream car was always a Shelby. So in the spring of 08 when I was able to make this dream come true I was on cloud nine.
Be careful what you wish for. Since the beginning it has been one issue after another. The first year it was the clutch. A few months later the clear coat on the front bumper started to haze. In 2010 I noticed the dreaded blistering on the hood. All theses issues were taken care of by the dealer but I expected more from ford considering this was their top dog mustang.
The trouble did not stop there. In 2012 the door panels stared to sag, of course it was out of warranty and I was left on my own to get them repaired. Whatever things happen. But now the blistering is back worse then ever. I took it to the dealership to see what they could do to help. The service manager told me that this a major problem for ford and he sees this everyday. He told me that he would do his best considering that my car only had 28000 miles at the time. I must say the dealership tried everything for me. They worked on it for me for over a month. In the end ford refused to help. The service manager was truly upset. They even tried to get ford to pay a portion and they would cover the rest. Still no go.
My wife a Chevy girl when we met. I changed that. All we buy are fords. Now my daughter is getting to that age where she needs a car. This time around I will look at other brands. Such a shame that ford won't stand behind their products and do the right thing.
Be careful what you wish for. Since the beginning it has been one issue after another. The first year it was the clutch. A few months later the clear coat on the front bumper started to haze. In 2010 I noticed the dreaded blistering on the hood. All theses issues were taken care of by the dealer but I expected more from ford considering this was their top dog mustang.
The trouble did not stop there. In 2012 the door panels stared to sag, of course it was out of warranty and I was left on my own to get them repaired. Whatever things happen. But now the blistering is back worse then ever. I took it to the dealership to see what they could do to help. The service manager told me that this a major problem for ford and he sees this everyday. He told me that he would do his best considering that my car only had 28000 miles at the time. I must say the dealership tried everything for me. They worked on it for me for over a month. In the end ford refused to help. The service manager was truly upset. They even tried to get ford to pay a portion and they would cover the rest. Still no go.
My wife a Chevy girl when we met. I changed that. All we buy are fords. Now my daughter is getting to that age where she needs a car. This time around I will look at other brands. Such a shame that ford won't stand behind their products and do the right thing.
3/8/15, 09:06 AM
#184
legacy Tms Member
2015 auto show pics
well, good news, only one new mustang this year had the telltale hood hem bubbling, but several others had issues- drips in clearcoat that looked like they would easily break off, bubblegum looking sealant on two at the passenger/rear hood corner only, and beyond messy 'sealant' only on the two 'verts, where the quarters meet the center panel underneath the trunklid- was the worst 'sealant' application anywhere at the show.
this year I'd rate Scion as best, hyundai/volvo tied at 2nd, toyota/honda/ram/dodge 3rd, others prettymuch random from decent to ugly- sadly, Ford has still the worst looking sealant misapplication of all the cars there.
the new F150 is a mess. found two with fender paint bubbling like a mustang hood under one bolt, one door on a sixty thousand dollar king ranch had a rather interesting crack in the aluminum inner door panel, another had a painted piece of tape stuck to the door(coulda been a line rework or a shoddy dealer repair- but still...) and lots and lots of dirt under the paint...extended can rear doors all had a common very sharp edge with burrs painted over. I am really afraid Ford is going to see massive paint issues down the road with these.
kinda interesting, the pic of the bubblegum looking f150 quarter sealant I posted a few months back, musta been a early release- none of the trucks on display had it... hopefully the processing will continue to evolve on the trucks, but man... QC needs some better lighting or something, a awful lot of ugly is still rolling out the door. I'll post pics separate, gotta go into paint to circle the noted areas- some dont photograph very well.
oh yeah- two taurus had the same hood edge paint adhesion issues as the 4 last year- FORD HAS A RACKING/HANDLING ISSUE THAT NEEDS RESOLVED. there is blatently obvious issue with something being clearcoated to the hoods at the exact same spot as last year- hopefully Deysha or someone can send the pics to wherever the taurus hood paint shop is- they have a fixturing issue guaranteed. tiny flaws in the paint are all thats neeed to let salt creep in.
this year I'd rate Scion as best, hyundai/volvo tied at 2nd, toyota/honda/ram/dodge 3rd, others prettymuch random from decent to ugly- sadly, Ford has still the worst looking sealant misapplication of all the cars there.
the new F150 is a mess. found two with fender paint bubbling like a mustang hood under one bolt, one door on a sixty thousand dollar king ranch had a rather interesting crack in the aluminum inner door panel, another had a painted piece of tape stuck to the door(coulda been a line rework or a shoddy dealer repair- but still...) and lots and lots of dirt under the paint...extended can rear doors all had a common very sharp edge with burrs painted over. I am really afraid Ford is going to see massive paint issues down the road with these.
kinda interesting, the pic of the bubblegum looking f150 quarter sealant I posted a few months back, musta been a early release- none of the trucks on display had it... hopefully the processing will continue to evolve on the trucks, but man... QC needs some better lighting or something, a awful lot of ugly is still rolling out the door. I'll post pics separate, gotta go into paint to circle the noted areas- some dont photograph very well.
oh yeah- two taurus had the same hood edge paint adhesion issues as the 4 last year- FORD HAS A RACKING/HANDLING ISSUE THAT NEEDS RESOLVED. there is blatently obvious issue with something being clearcoated to the hoods at the exact same spot as last year- hopefully Deysha or someone can send the pics to wherever the taurus hood paint shop is- they have a fixturing issue guaranteed. tiny flaws in the paint are all thats neeed to let salt creep in.
3/8/15, 09:36 AM
#185
legacy Tms Member
some pics of that kingranch door- yes its a tiny Y shaped crack, wont hurt much- but cracks spread, and that exposes raw metal to the elements...
seriously, the dirt under the paint is still a bigger worry to me- aluminum is very unforgiving to poor prep, as our mustang hoods have shown...
seriously, the dirt under the paint is still a bigger worry to me- aluminum is very unforgiving to poor prep, as our mustang hoods have shown...
3/8/15, 09:40 AM
#186
legacy Tms Member
f150 bubbling under one hood bolt- other 4 f150s were perfect, only two had bubbling, both under this same bolt... the white king ranch had signs the opposite side bolt was adjusted after paint(could see unpainted 1/16 along brace) but no sign of corrosion- suspect *maybe* they adjusted alignment after paint and bolt cut thru the paint film?
whatever- all three of our mustang hoods failed from areas that looked just like this initially- but much smaller...
whatever- all three of our mustang hoods failed from areas that looked just like this initially- but much smaller...
Last edited by ford4v429; 3/8/15 at 09:42 AM.
3/8/15, 09:48 AM
#187
legacy Tms Member
only *suspected* mustang corrosion/bubbling issues this year- the blue hood in this one area looked exactly like ours did before they strawberried up, the red fender pic didnt show well, but looked/felt exactly like the strawberry bubbling beginning in this one little spot- oddly, not near a hem or bolt- suspect a pinhole around the square punchout mighta let moisture in?
3/8/15, 09:53 AM
#188
legacy Tms Member
outright hideous sealant unde the trunklids of the convertibles- fastbacks were all nicely done in this area- someone on the vert line isnt taking any pride in their work 
the other vert pic i took is all glare- but i promise it looked as bad if not worse...
the other vert pic i took is all glare- but i promise it looked as bad if not worse...
3/8/15, 09:59 AM
#190
legacy Tms Member
taurus edge damage- yes these are TINY breaks in the paint- but a pinhole is all thats needed to let salt in. as much as these cars cost it is unacceptable. 4 on display last year had EXACT same issue in exact same spot??? does anyone at the factory even look? there is obvious adhesion to some fixture going on at the paint line. jeez
3/8/15, 10:02 AM
#191
legacy Tms Member
it all starts from poor prep and moisture getting under the paint... I feel for you, these are wonderful cars, but Ford in my opinion has the worst prep/paint quality control on the planet right now.
this years auto show Id say Scion was best
this years auto show Id say Scion was best
3/8/15, 10:04 AM
#192
legacy Tms Member
I should note also- there was a F350 dually on display, dunno where they are built, but certainly not by the F150 folks- the F350 was absolutely perfect everywhere I looked... the F150s, umm, no
3/8/15, 10:44 AM
#193
legacy Tms Member
sharp corners painted over on rear doors of extended cab f150s...aside from likely to cut you when washing the truck, how long is the paint supposed to last on a razor edge?
TWO SECONDS with a flapwheel before paint coulda smoothed these out...sad.
the little dingleberry at the corner of this f150 hood had to be .200~.250 diamerter...huge blob- about certain to be easy to break off if washing and a rag hooks that corner
TWO SECONDS with a flapwheel before paint coulda smoothed these out...sad.
the little dingleberry at the corner of this f150 hood had to be .200~.250 diamerter...huge blob- about certain to be easy to break off if washing and a rag hooks that corner
3/8/15, 10:52 AM
#194
legacy Tms Member
this just made me laugh... probably a dealer fix, but definitely a rework/repair, they left a piece of masking tape painted to the door. looked like aluminum or primer along the edge where the tape was
whaatta ya want on a 40 thousand dollar pickup
whaatta ya want on a 40 thousand dollar pickup
3/8/15, 11:13 AM
#195
most Ford trolls say that our vehicles are exposed to too much road salt😨 yet some have never seen any I think the cars need more zinc plating like a boat leg to help slow it's growth.
3/8/15, 11:33 AM
#196
legacy Tms Member
the wifes truck is now 9 yrs old, much as I hate to go mopar, I think they had the best assembled trucks at the show this year. I'd rather replace parts than corroded metal. the chevy/gmc fullsized trucks had better than ford, but still not great assembly- bumper mismatch, wavy quarter panels on all the silverados from spotweld tension or stamping... the ram trucks looked well put together. the challenger is also near perfect sealing/paint/prep/gap wise...and gorgeous even if huge. no way in hell I would buy a F150 this year- best of luck to those that do- its a nice truck- but they had better look it over REAL good before the 3/36 is up- thats about the typical age the mustangs hit before they turned into prunes on the hoods.
3/9/15, 07:08 AM
#197
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... oh yeah- two Taurus had the same hood edge paint adhesion issues as the 4 last year- FORD HAS A RACKING/HANDLING ISSUE THAT NEEDS RESOLVED. there is blatantly obvious issue with something being clear coated to the hoods at the exact same spot as last year- hopefully Deysha or someone can send the pics to wherever the Taurus hood paint shop is- they have a fixturing issue guaranteed. tiny flaws in the paint are all that's need to let salt creep in.
Deysha
3/11/15, 11:22 AM
#198
GT Member
Folks, if you have been denied warranty coverage and Deysha was not able to successfully have this issue resolved for you (or it was repainted/replaced and the issue came back), there is another option now. The below attorney has filed a class action lawsuit against ford for this specific issue on behalf of two mustang owners. He is looking for more people who have gone through the ringer and haven't had a successful resolution.
I'm only posting this because I think Ford should permanently fix the issue. in the end it hurts their brand image to have cars running around with what looks like car-herpes on the aluminum.
http://www.sommerspc.com/en/people/l....aspx?ORID=192
I'm only posting this because I think Ford should permanently fix the issue. in the end it hurts their brand image to have cars running around with what looks like car-herpes on the aluminum.
http://www.sommerspc.com/en/people/l....aspx?ORID=192
3/11/15, 08:16 PM
#199
legacy Tms Member
I hate lawyers... in the end they might help a few they 'represent' but in the end they end up with stuffed pockets. Ford deserves a smack upside the head on this stupid issue, but I'd rather see them make it right than see another lawyer able to afford the phonebook cover...
I bet ford could repop hoods/properly seal them, bulk paint and ship to dealers for 3 to 400 bucks apiece... think i the end if they just extended hood paint warranty to at least 5 yrs, and replaced the ones that failed they could save face somewhat... but even then theres problems- what about custom striped hoods, or those that replaced theirs already (I had about 1500 in my first hood and painted it myself...) or paid for repairs and no longer have the cars...
in the end, I think its just easier to bite the bullet, buy a quality 'glass hood and be done- but be VERY vocal about the issue till hell freezes over...if enough folks keep this issue a issue, Ford will see it dont happen again.
I sent pics to a bunch of folks at Ford, got a reply from Mark Fields this morning... seriously hope to see flawless hems on new Fords sometime this year, but I'm gonna be a squeaky wheel till that day comes...
I bet ford could repop hoods/properly seal them, bulk paint and ship to dealers for 3 to 400 bucks apiece... think i the end if they just extended hood paint warranty to at least 5 yrs, and replaced the ones that failed they could save face somewhat... but even then theres problems- what about custom striped hoods, or those that replaced theirs already (I had about 1500 in my first hood and painted it myself...) or paid for repairs and no longer have the cars...
in the end, I think its just easier to bite the bullet, buy a quality 'glass hood and be done- but be VERY vocal about the issue till hell freezes over...if enough folks keep this issue a issue, Ford will see it dont happen again.
I sent pics to a bunch of folks at Ford, got a reply from Mark Fields this morning... seriously hope to see flawless hems on new Fords sometime this year, but I'm gonna be a squeaky wheel till that day comes...
3/13/15, 03:36 PM
#200
I hate lawyers... in the end they might help a few they 'represent' but in the end they end up with stuffed pockets. Ford deserves a smack upside the head on this stupid issue, but I'd rather see them make it right than see another lawyer able to afford the phonebook cover...
I bet ford could repop hoods/properly seal them, bulk paint and ship to dealers for 3 to 400 bucks apiece... think i the end if they just extended hood paint warranty to at least 5 yrs, and replaced the ones that failed they could save face somewhat... but even then theres problems- what about custom striped hoods, or those that replaced theirs already (I had about 1500 in my first hood and painted it myself...) or paid for repairs and no longer have the cars...
in the end, I think its just easier to bite the bullet, buy a quality 'glass hood and be done- but be VERY vocal about the issue till hell freezes over...if enough folks keep this issue a issue, Ford will see it dont happen again.
I sent pics to a bunch of folks at Ford, got a reply from Mark Fields this morning... seriously hope to see flawless hems on new Fords sometime this year, but I'm gonna be a squeaky wheel till that day comes...
I bet ford could repop hoods/properly seal them, bulk paint and ship to dealers for 3 to 400 bucks apiece... think i the end if they just extended hood paint warranty to at least 5 yrs, and replaced the ones that failed they could save face somewhat... but even then theres problems- what about custom striped hoods, or those that replaced theirs already (I had about 1500 in my first hood and painted it myself...) or paid for repairs and no longer have the cars...
in the end, I think its just easier to bite the bullet, buy a quality 'glass hood and be done- but be VERY vocal about the issue till hell freezes over...if enough folks keep this issue a issue, Ford will see it dont happen again.
I sent pics to a bunch of folks at Ford, got a reply from Mark Fields this morning... seriously hope to see flawless hems on new Fords sometime this year, but I'm gonna be a squeaky wheel till that day comes...
Mark Fields wrote you? What did he say? Did he give you the usual PR stuff "thank you for bringing this to our attention, quality is Job 1!" or did he seem genuinely interested?
Awesome and fascinating pix, BTW!