Remember BMW also produced the S54 powerplant for the 01-06 M3's and current Z4 M's that are 3.2L NA to 330hp and they redlined at 8000rpm. My 04 M3 with a full exhaust and CAI and software made 310rwhp. The turbos in the 335/135 etc. are awesome. They make full tq. as low as 1300rpm to redline. Not to mention with just a couple of minor mods they can be made to make over 400hp.

Dave

 

i have no doubt their high revving 6 can produce such power and think the 01-06 M3s are cool (manual trim only is my taste) but would have to say i prefer their new V8 to everything else. the turbos give good power in their 1 3 and 5, but its BMW and their cars are so refined that they lack a more raw appeal. great cars though. their 4liter V8 and 5liter V10 are the marvels of the company imo

 

I just can't understand some of you guys I guess. You guys say Ford has to offer an IRS to compete yet I don't see very many people claiming that the current mustang rides horribly. Some of you guys must live in crappy areas if you are so worried about driving on uneven pavement. I have yet to drive over anything that has made my current car (93 mustang) skip the rear tires out like you guys claim SRA does. And my car is definately inferior to the s197 in terms of handling (and everything else).

It is not about keeping the SRA just because it is good enough, it is about not going with an IRS because there is little benefit for it as far as the mustang is concerned. The mustang already handles up there with cars that have superior IRS setups. HP should ALWAYS come first when talking about the mustang since that is a big part of what makes it popular. Not some supercar handling.

 

IRS is really the cool BBD thing to have nowa days ;p Honestly though it seems people have placed an inordinate amount of importance on it, especially given the amount and type of illegal "contests of speed" people typically will be engaging in.

What the SRA guys really need is for Toyota and Honda to come out with an SRA equipped car, that'll quiet things down a bit. I remeber when magazines used to vilify american car manufacturers for thier continued use of drum brakes. Now it seems with the advent of cars like the Prius, such things are acceptable again in the name fuel savings (heh, maybe thats the angle Ford needs to use for the Mustang - SRA for increased fuel mileage FTW).

 

Agreed, you really do have to step up to the M cars to get that raw appeal. In fact it may be to much for alot of people. When people buy a BMW they expect peanut buttery smoothness and such. My E46 M3 spit and snarled when it was cold..I loved it. My 997 S is pretty raw but not as raw as my M was.

Dave

 

Ah, so that's what Cerberus has up it's sleeve. So in other words, the majority of Chrysler would then be sold off to Nissan/Renault, and possibly Fiat as well.

Never the less, It I'll be very interesting indeed to see how all of this unfolds.

 

NP Jeff, as I was just being sarcastic. In the meantime, I'd be very honored to finally meet, and hang out with you at Carlisle this upcoming spring/summer.

 

Cool news Rocky!! I'll be sending you a PM tomorrow, with my cell number. Please call it sometime Saturday night (after 5, but before the Phillies game), and I'll tell you EVERYTHING you need to know about signing up with the club (the link in my sig) and signing up at Carlisle correctly, so your registration goes towards the tent count. YOU WILL HAVE A BLAST!!!!

 

I totally disagree. Pretty much everything on the road today besides trucks and mustangs have an IRS. The uneven pavement area that some of us discuss in pretty much everywhere where you see snow. Owning both a SRA and IRS Mustang I can tell you from firsthand experience there is a huge difference in ride quality, that is much more than the "little benefit" you speak of.

Once the new Camaro comes out you will see how far behind the Mustang actually is in terms of handling. Don't get me wrong I think the Mustang handles well for what it is but, there is room for for improvement. As far as the HP vs Handling argument, I must be a minority here but I feel the handling aspect is more useful in day to day driving.

 

I think that the fact you feel a huge difference between your SRA equipped stang and your IRS stang has more to do with the technology used in both. According to your profile, you have a 97 GT and an 03 Cobra. You need to drive a S197. There is not that much difference in ride quality at all, not the huge difference you say there is. Yes, there is room for improvement, but not enough at this point to warrant bringing it in until the next platform. Unless you live north of the 45th parallel, I dont think you see snow or bad roads as much as in my area. Ice and Frost heaves the pavement every which way and roads have to be repaved in someplaces every year. Not every car on the road today has IRS either. The ones that do, dont ride astronomically better than an SRA. I should know, I drive different cars every week for the sole purpose of feeling the differences between makes and models. And its my job.
My fiance has fybromyalgia. If she thinks a car rides rough, she can tell better than anyone. We drove over 360 miles one way, a couple weeks ago in a 2008 GT convertible. She didnt complain once. That tells me that the SRA did just fine.

 

I understand your argument and I agree the 05-09 car is a huge leap forward from the 94-04 cars in terms of handling ability, refinement and build quality for the most part. That being said my 97' and 03' are pretty much the same basic car, sure the cobra has more power, better brakes and so on. I feel the difference between my 97 and 03 would also be realized if Ford offered an IRS in the s197. We should keep in mind that this structure is decades more advanced than the fox-based 4th gen cars. If I remember correctly the 05' Mustang was expected to have an IRS until the last minute. Perhaps driving a newer T-Bird or Lincoln LS would give us an idea of how the Mustang would have rode if it had the IRS.

I have driven several newer Mustangs (i'm in the market for one right now) including several GTs and a couple GT500s. I still feel that it doesn't have the true refinement a car like the Camaro or Challenger will offer. I'm not basing this on actual performance specs since we don't have many at this time. Having driven an SRT8 Charger (very similar to the Challenger) I would argue that this car along with the Pontiac G8 (very similar to the upcoming Camaro) both have that polished ride that feels much more modern than the Mustang. Perhaps it's rawness is part of it's appeal, kinda like the 03-04 Terminators.

I guess what i'm trying to say is that you are neither wrong or right, just a difference in opinion. I happen to feel that an IRS equipped 06' GTO gives a better ride than say, a GT of the same year. Either way I'm buying another Mustang at the end of the day.

 

May I add, New England has some of the crappiest roads in the country. We now all about potholes and road imperfections.

 

Hey Phil, should you decide on either a used low mile GT, or GT500. I may have the ideal solution for you. Take a look at either Fay's 2 Watts Link, or Steeda's Watts Linkage. Both are very excellent choices, and will provide near like IRS quality. And most of all, it's far less expensive than buying either a Challenger or Camaro.

At any rate, I'll definitely be looking into one of these for my Mustang this upcoming spring/summer.


In the meantime, here's the links for both linkage setups to check out for yourself.


http://www.fays2.net/fays2_watts_link_11_.html


http://www.steeda.com/products/steed..._link_s197.php

 

You havent driven a challenger yet have you? I know the camaro hasnt been released yet. My point is that you maybe surprised by how well the SRA holds up to the two.
The GTO is a great ride. The interior was phenomenal. Sitting in the backseat was like sitting in a couch. But punch it with the IRS and it would start barking at you. Wheel hop galore. I thought I broke something, but maybe it had to do with the way I was shifting.

 

is it me or does the 4.6 3V in the S197 have a nicer exhaust note than the LS2 GTO

 

It gets even better with LT headers and some Borla Stingers.

 

More reasons to love my S197 GT/CS

 

I can TOTALLY 2nd that quote!!!!

 

OK for you pro-SRA guys, do you think that at least the GT500 should get an IRS to challenge other cars in the price range in terms of overal refinement and handling? (Corvette, M3, potential z28 Camro etc....)

 

Yes, I think that would be a wise upgrade, as well as an aluminum block to go with it.