What's the BFD with IRS?
Legacy TMS Member
Joined: January 6, 2006
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From: Bay Area, CA
Hmm...honestly I could care less if the 2010 GT is out-performed by the 2020 SS. It SHOULD be. GM is stupid for marketing this version of the Camaro as the SS. It should be the Z/28. And even then, I would still not care as the Z/28 always outperformed the GT. They should have made the 422hp version the Z/28 and left the SS name open for a 427 7.0 505hp version with the Z06 engine. Oh well.
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
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From: Carnegie, PA
Why do you say this? This is simply not true. Tell that to all the owners of 99,01 and 03-04 SVT Mustang owners. Not to mention I changed gears in my 04 BMW E46 M3 with 4.10 BMW Motorsport gearing, a car that is equipped with an IRS. Even in my current ride a 07 997S I can change gears...just so **** expensive you say forget about it as the tranny has to be pulled.
Dave
Dave
At any rate, I now stand corrected.
Last edited by m05fastbackGT; Oct 18, 2008 at 11:24 PM.
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
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From: Carnegie, PA
Hmm...honestly I could care less if the 2010 GT is out-performed by the 2020 SS. It SHOULD be. GM is stupid for marketing this version of the Camaro as the SS. It should be the Z/28. And even then, I would still not care as the Z/28 always outperformed the GT. They should have made the 422hp version the Z/28 and left the SS name open for a 427 7.0 505hp version with the Z06 engine. Oh well.
According to rumor, the 7.0 505HP 427. Is for the Z/28 version, providing that it makes it to production.
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
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For those of you that are ever on SVTPerformance know of FourCam330, he is really in the know as far as the powertrains that Ford is coming out with. According to him the 5.0L 4V for 2011 will make 400hp on 87 octane. Later versions of this engine will also have DI (Direct Injection) with an even higher horsepower rating along with better fuel economy. Think of what a tune will do now for 91 or better octane.
Now I know this is all heresay, but FourCam has been right on the money everytime it counted.
Dave
Now I know this is all heresay, but FourCam has been right on the money everytime it counted.
Dave
I couldn't agree more Dave.
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
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Well none is this matters right now. This is all speculation, we should have the performance numbers for the Camaro SS in a few months. As for the 5.0 who really knows for certain when and if it comes out or how much power it will make. For all we know the 5.0 could be delayed further it wouldn't be the first time in automotive history.
I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on the SRA vs IRS debate. The advantage of swapping out gears in the SRA means nothing to me, as far as putting down power i'm sure the Camaro will not have a problem. Since GM has been doing an excellent job with Corvettes for decades, an IRS in a powerful V8 is something they should handle well.
The thing I find so curious is that you seem certain that the 5.0 11' Mustang will have better MPG and be faster. These are pretty bold statements considering that the whole 5.0 thing is just speculation at this point. Will Ford make the 5.0? Probably but I think some are getting ahead of themselves claiming what it will do.
As far as i'm concerned i'm going with what I do know, the SS Camaro is a 422HP car that was built to beat the Mustang, pure and simple. Though I am not a fan of the car's looks I do have to give credit to GM for pulling out all the stops to make this (thus far) the most complete of the current new gen muscle cars. Though it costs more than the Mustang GT, (admittedly probably more than the more powerful upcoming 10' GT) and about the same as the mid level R/T Challenger it will easily out-perform both. Actually only the GT500 should be faster, as this car should dust the SRT8 Challenger for about 10 grand less.
I'm not planning on buying a Camaro, but it will be the best overall performance car of the three (it usually has been). Either way i'm going to sit back and watch how these cars actually perform in the real world and drive an example of each before I consider buying one. I still think the Mustang will be the more complete car hitting all those small details that the competition has usually failed to do(i'm already loving the new interior).
I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on the SRA vs IRS debate. The advantage of swapping out gears in the SRA means nothing to me, as far as putting down power i'm sure the Camaro will not have a problem. Since GM has been doing an excellent job with Corvettes for decades, an IRS in a powerful V8 is something they should handle well.
The thing I find so curious is that you seem certain that the 5.0 11' Mustang will have better MPG and be faster. These are pretty bold statements considering that the whole 5.0 thing is just speculation at this point. Will Ford make the 5.0? Probably but I think some are getting ahead of themselves claiming what it will do.
As far as i'm concerned i'm going with what I do know, the SS Camaro is a 422HP car that was built to beat the Mustang, pure and simple. Though I am not a fan of the car's looks I do have to give credit to GM for pulling out all the stops to make this (thus far) the most complete of the current new gen muscle cars. Though it costs more than the Mustang GT, (admittedly probably more than the more powerful upcoming 10' GT) and about the same as the mid level R/T Challenger it will easily out-perform both. Actually only the GT500 should be faster, as this car should dust the SRT8 Challenger for about 10 grand less.
I'm not planning on buying a Camaro, but it will be the best overall performance car of the three (it usually has been). Either way i'm going to sit back and watch how these cars actually perform in the real world and drive an example of each before I consider buying one. I still think the Mustang will be the more complete car hitting all those small details that the competition has usually failed to do(i'm already loving the new interior).
Btw: Dave is absolutely 100% right on the money regarding FourCam330, in which he's also been right on the money, everytime.
IMHO, if you do plan on getting either a low mileage GT500, or prefer to wait for the 2011 GT. I feel pretty confident that once you actually own one, you will not feel disappointed in anyway whatsoever.
The bottom line, is there's always going to be somebody else whose better and faster than you anyhow, regardless of how fast you think your car is. Therefore what really matters most, is that I'm fully able to enjoy driving my Mustang, despite whatever the competition may have up it's sleeve lol.
I suppose that once you become an old timer, such as myself. It no longer really matters quite as much, as it used to.
Last edited by m05fastbackGT; Oct 19, 2008 at 12:41 AM.
Mach 1 Member
Joined: January 30, 2008
Posts: 721
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From: Pacific NW USA
Pretty much all front engine rear drive cars have a ring an pinion gear assembly regardless if they are solid rear axle or independent rear axle.
So technically you could change the gears...
So technically you could change the gears...
Cobra R Member
Joined: September 26, 2007
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From: Massachusetts
It most certainly does matter, as Ford insiders such as FourCam330 along with fellow forum members Jsaylor, GTJohn, Dave07997S, and Boomer all agree that the 5.0 400HP 4v. will indeed be confirmed by Ford to replace the current 4.6L when the 2011 GT. makes it's debut.
Btw: Dave is absolutely 100% right on the money regarding FourCam330, in which he's also been right on the money, everytime.
IMHO, if you do plan on getting either a low mileage GT500, or prefer to wait for the 2011 GT. I feel pretty confident that once you actually own one, you will not feel disappointed in anyway whatsoever.
The bottom line, is there's always going to be somebody else whose better and faster than you anyhow, regardless of how fast you think your car is. Therefore what really matters most, is that I'm fully able to enjoy driving my Mustang, despite whatever the competition may have up it's sleeve lol.
I suppose that once you become an old timer, such as myself. It no longer really matters quite as much, as it used to.
Btw: Dave is absolutely 100% right on the money regarding FourCam330, in which he's also been right on the money, everytime.
IMHO, if you do plan on getting either a low mileage GT500, or prefer to wait for the 2011 GT. I feel pretty confident that once you actually own one, you will not feel disappointed in anyway whatsoever.
The bottom line, is there's always going to be somebody else whose better and faster than you anyhow, regardless of how fast you think your car is. Therefore what really matters most, is that I'm fully able to enjoy driving my Mustang, despite whatever the competition may have up it's sleeve lol.
I suppose that once you become an old timer, such as myself. It no longer really matters quite as much, as it used to.
My only concern is with the money problems the big 3 is having, any of these programs can be cut. It is already confirmed that Chevy is being forced to delay the C7 Corvette, Dodge's new HEMI's may also see the ax.
I remember when FourCam first put out info on the 5.0, i was supposed to be out for the 10' model. Also I don't think we should not put to much stock into hp numbers. Remember Ford needs to meet higher EPA numbers every year. I hope I'm wrong but I just don't have the confidence in the 5.0 that you guys have.
It's good to not your hopes up too much so that IF/WHEN it doesn't happen, whatever it may be, we won't be too disappointed and can carry on still being Ford/Mustang loyalists without it hurting us too much. Just let the Mustang do what it needs to do and it will be right for the times. It always has been. I don't see Ford doing anything to hurt its pending 50th Anniversary date. Even if we have to see a Mustang II to get there, we will get there, and beyond it, with a little hope and patience and understanding. The Mustang is the greatest thing to happen to the automotive world (my opinion) and I doubt Ford thinks much less of it than I do. I'm sure they are doing everything they can to save the heritage and keep advancing at the same time. Have faith. I do.
Legacy TMS Member Pr
Joined: January 31, 2008
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From: PR
It's good to not your hopes up too much so that IF/WHEN it doesn't happen, whatever it may be, we won't be too disappointed and can carry on still being Ford/Mustang loyalists without it hurting us too much. Just let the Mustang do what it needs to do and it will be right for the times. It always has been. I don't see Ford doing anything to hurt its pending 50th Anniversary date. Even if we have to see a Mustang II to get there, we will get there, and beyond it, with a little hope and patience and understanding. The Mustang is the greatest thing to happen to the automotive world (my opinion) and I doubt Ford thinks much less of it than I do. I'm sure they are doing everything they can to save the heritage and keep advancing at the same time. Have faith. I do.
Mustang has always been bang for the buck, no matter what other car makers dish out. It's the reason the Charger, Challenger, Genesis and now the upcomming Camaro exist.
Last edited by edumspeed; Oct 19, 2008 at 09:57 AM.
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the 5.0, lighter weight and a tweaked SRA or watts is what fords gotta focus on right now. with the dohc 5.0 we will be at the top; they can do DI later and the new suspension can come out later. right now imo its weight and the 5.0... interior and exterior and gadgets they nailed already
Bullitt Member
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First the looks and then as I got older, the bang for the buck, is why I fell so hard for this car. It also helps that the aftermarket is insane!!
Cobra R Member
Joined: September 26, 2007
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From: Massachusetts
Yes indeed... The Mustang has set the pace from day one as far as pure pony/ muscle car from day one and has done so without out a letup. First the looks and then as I got older, the bang for the buck, is why I fell so hard for this car. It also helps that the aftermarket is insane!!
First the looks and then as I got older, the bang for the buck, is why I fell so hard for this car. It also helps that the aftermarket is insane!!Who would you rather be like? 70s Burt Reynolds or 70s Charlie's Angles?
Besides that sad period I'd agree it has been the bang for buck champ, but the competition is going to be tough this time around.
Legacy TMS Member Pr
Joined: January 31, 2008
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From: PR
At the time the II appeared, the goverment was forcing the Car Manufacturers to squeeze less emissions and better mpg's out of their cars, along with better crash worthiness. Mustang has always been adjusted with the times.
As they say: "The Mustang II is a Mustang too!" It was right for the times. What would you have rather had...
1) A Mustang II that met the requirements and continued to sell and make memories
2) No Mustang at all, therefore no 45th Anniversary this year, no "unbroken" chain of continuous Mustang production, no bragging rights; possibly, even worse, no more Mustang.
I think I'll take a Mustang II anyday over an F-Body, simply for it's commitment to the namesake and pride of the ledgend.
1) A Mustang II that met the requirements and continued to sell and make memories
2) No Mustang at all, therefore no 45th Anniversary this year, no "unbroken" chain of continuous Mustang production, no bragging rights; possibly, even worse, no more Mustang.
I think I'll take a Mustang II anyday over an F-Body, simply for it's commitment to the namesake and pride of the ledgend.
Mach 1 Member
Joined: September 22, 2005
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From: Kansas
Say what you want about it, but I love the Mustang II. My parents bought a brand new orange '77 Mach 1 the year I was born. I always loved that car. Burt Reynolds or Charlie's Angels can't hold a candle to real, actual memories. If it weren't for the II, the Mustang (and for that matter, quite possibly pony cars in general) would cease to exist.
Of course, the worst memory of all was the day they traded it in for a freaking GRANADA. WTF WERE THEY THINKING?!!
Of course, the worst memory of all was the day they traded it in for a freaking GRANADA. WTF WERE THEY THINKING?!!
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I remember when FourCam first put out info on the 5.0, i was supposed to be out for the 10' model. Also I don't think we should not put to much stock into hp numbers. Remember Ford needs to meet higher EPA numbers every year. I hope I'm wrong but I just don't have the confidence in the 5.0 that you guys have.
I'm a bit fuzzy here, but IIRC the 5.0L rumors began with the engine being slated to debut for the 2011MY, with the possibility of a 2010MY debut coming to light after that. As best as I can tell the story seems to go that the 5.0L program was actually ahead of schedule at the time and Ford was considering an attempt at speeding up the process just enough to have 5.0L ready in time for the 2010MY debut, only to decide that could go badly.
Like I said I am a bit fuzzy on this issue now, so don't quote me by any means, but the above is my best recollection of how things went down.
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From: Kansas
Cobra R Member
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From: Massachusetts
Wow, I gotta say i'm surprised some people actually like the Pinto, oh i'm sorry I mean Mustang II lol. Well I understand the reasoning behind making the II but I disagree with them "keeping the pony car alive". Though it carried the Mustang name it wasn't a pony car anymore. Make fun of the F-body all you want but they kept the muscle car alive during a very dark period.
I'm a Mustang guy through and through, I guess I kinda like the old Cobra IIs but I still have to say a Black n' Gold T/A was the sweetest of the gas crisis Muscle cars
I'm a Mustang guy through and through, I guess I kinda like the old Cobra IIs but I still have to say a Black n' Gold T/A was the sweetest of the gas crisis Muscle cars