What would the 2010 have to have for you to buy/trade up???
Legacy TMS Member
Joined: February 22, 2004
Posts: 1,564
Likes: 0
Especially for the 05-09 owners, what would the 2010/11 have to have to make it tempting enough to buy or trade up to?
What if it has IRS and a 6 speed but the old 4.6 at 325hp???
What if it does get a 400hp 5.0 but isn't as attractive as the current model and still no IRS/6speed???
What if it lost a hundred pounds, looked great, but still had the same powertrain???
With all the rumours flying about, I was just wondering which suspected upgrades are the ones that will have people making a trip to the dealer in 2010/11
What if it has IRS and a 6 speed but the old 4.6 at 325hp???
What if it does get a 400hp 5.0 but isn't as attractive as the current model and still no IRS/6speed???
What if it lost a hundred pounds, looked great, but still had the same powertrain???
With all the rumours flying about, I was just wondering which suspected upgrades are the ones that will have people making a trip to the dealer in 2010/11
I will never trade my car! Now I may think about buying one in addition but my current car is too special to me.
Member
Joined: July 4, 2008
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Ford has struck gold by plumbing its history and resurrecting certain design cues that appealed to many Americans at a visceral level. The s197 has styling elements that seemed right back in 1967
and have retained their appeal 40 years later. A pleasing shape does not illuminate the intellect but rather the viscera--we'll know it when we see it, whether contemporary or retrogressive.
and have retained their appeal 40 years later. A pleasing shape does not illuminate the intellect but rather the viscera--we'll know it when we see it, whether contemporary or retrogressive.
GT Member
Joined: February 24, 2008
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
Ford has struck gold by plumbing its history and resurrecting certain design cues that appealed to many Americans at a visceral level. The s197 has styling elements that seemed right back in 1967
and have retained their appeal 40 years later. A pleasing shape does not illuminate the intellect but rather the viscera--we'll know it when we see it, whether contemporary or retrogressive.
and have retained their appeal 40 years later. A pleasing shape does not illuminate the intellect but rather the viscera--we'll know it when we see it, whether contemporary or retrogressive.
Very well said. Speaking of intellect....
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 10,648
Likes: 2,519
From: Carnegie, PA
Do you think the only reason for the most recent Mustang's success was based on styling alone? Keep in mind that it was the first complete refresh on the car since 1979! This car was also leaps and bounds more improved from the 04' model in just about every performance category along with much improved interior layout for basically the same price as the previous gen.
My only point was this: had it not been for the success of Mustang's retro styling. Dodge wouldn't had brought back the Challenger after a 35 year absence, nor would Chevy had followed suit with it's retro styled Camaro !
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 10,648
Likes: 2,519
From: Carnegie, PA
m05fastbackGT is totally, absolutely correct--if the '05 had been just another "contemporary restyling" of the SN-95, Chevy would still be offering the Monte Carlo SS (Smirk!) as its "sporty" model and Dodge would only be offering the 4-door automatic Charger as its "sporty" model. "Sheesh", says Boomer...
This is not meant to be a "bash 97GT03SVT" session, but facts are facts. The Mustang is extremely popular with the under-thirty consumers--Mustangs being the number one vehicle of choice for first time car owners, most of whom are neutered by having to settle for the Civic that is the parental vehicle of choice for their sons & daughters. A huge percentage of them are hoping to get Mustangs...
If all a performance vehicle means to a person is just a box with a big engine in it, then that person should seek out one of the old 440 Darts--plenty of engine and plenty of box but zero passion. Passion is what sets the Mustang apart from the run-of-the-mill so-called performance cars of today. Heritage is what makes the '05 the pinnacle of that passion--you can look at an '05 and see that heritage of greatness in its crisp legendary lines that bespeak of G.T. 350s, Boss 302s, Riverside, Laguna Seca, the Trans-Am, Parnelli, and Gurney. Or Tommy Grove, the Winternationals, Pomona, and Bristol. Or even Mickey Thompson and Bonneville.
Decades from now, automotive editors will look back on 2005 as the year that saved affordable performance from oblivion for all of us, and the reason will be the S197 Mustang. Are there 35 tuner manufacturers offering tuner Mustangs currently, or is it more than that now? Ford itself offers the FR500C, the FR500GT, the FR500S, the FR500GT4 and the FR500GT3--bad-posteriors (the eyes of Boomer are upon me) for every budget. The S197 was not just a refreshed Mustang, it was a sea change in what affordable performance vehicles are all about--nothing like this has happened since 1964, April 17th to be exact. How many of you were even born then? Prior to that, it had only happened one other time--when the '32 Ford flathead V8 first hit the dealerships of Depression America.
This is automotive history being made--you can be a part of it now. Or you can read about those who were a part of it decades from now. History will prove me right...
Respectfully,
Greg "Eights" Ates
This is not meant to be a "bash 97GT03SVT" session, but facts are facts. The Mustang is extremely popular with the under-thirty consumers--Mustangs being the number one vehicle of choice for first time car owners, most of whom are neutered by having to settle for the Civic that is the parental vehicle of choice for their sons & daughters. A huge percentage of them are hoping to get Mustangs...
If all a performance vehicle means to a person is just a box with a big engine in it, then that person should seek out one of the old 440 Darts--plenty of engine and plenty of box but zero passion. Passion is what sets the Mustang apart from the run-of-the-mill so-called performance cars of today. Heritage is what makes the '05 the pinnacle of that passion--you can look at an '05 and see that heritage of greatness in its crisp legendary lines that bespeak of G.T. 350s, Boss 302s, Riverside, Laguna Seca, the Trans-Am, Parnelli, and Gurney. Or Tommy Grove, the Winternationals, Pomona, and Bristol. Or even Mickey Thompson and Bonneville.
Decades from now, automotive editors will look back on 2005 as the year that saved affordable performance from oblivion for all of us, and the reason will be the S197 Mustang. Are there 35 tuner manufacturers offering tuner Mustangs currently, or is it more than that now? Ford itself offers the FR500C, the FR500GT, the FR500S, the FR500GT4 and the FR500GT3--bad-posteriors (the eyes of Boomer are upon me) for every budget. The S197 was not just a refreshed Mustang, it was a sea change in what affordable performance vehicles are all about--nothing like this has happened since 1964, April 17th to be exact. How many of you were even born then? Prior to that, it had only happened one other time--when the '32 Ford flathead V8 first hit the dealerships of Depression America.
This is automotive history being made--you can be a part of it now. Or you can read about those who were a part of it decades from now. History will prove me right...
Respectfully,
Greg "Eights" Ates
And that's not just an opinion, but it's also fact
I Have Admin Envy
Joined: January 30, 2004
Posts: 6,740
Likes: 1
I absolutely love my '05 GT, and don't plan to trade it in.
I think it is a great design, and what it would really take is a lot of incremental improvements
1) IRS - I've always wanted one in the Mustang, it would be an easy addition to the S197 considering it was designed and prototyped for the Cobra model before being scrapped.
2) Mo' Power - 300HP is nice, but with the chally and Camaro pushing closer to 400, Ford will have to compete. On a side note, it was foolish of GM not to make a Z28 with 380Hp to split the difference with the RS/SS, but then again, GM can never perfectly execute a car (Corvette excepted).
3) A 6-speed manual - everyone else has one, why can't we?
4) Better Interior materials - the '05-09 have great interior style, with horrible hard plastic
5) Cut out the cost cutting - Put the antenna in the glass, give me a trunk release button.
I personally love the current bodystyle and hope the newer model doesn't stray too far from it. However, given that it won't have an IRS (which is the only thing I truly dislike on my car) I am not planning on trading in.
I think it is a great design, and what it would really take is a lot of incremental improvements
1) IRS - I've always wanted one in the Mustang, it would be an easy addition to the S197 considering it was designed and prototyped for the Cobra model before being scrapped.
2) Mo' Power - 300HP is nice, but with the chally and Camaro pushing closer to 400, Ford will have to compete. On a side note, it was foolish of GM not to make a Z28 with 380Hp to split the difference with the RS/SS, but then again, GM can never perfectly execute a car (Corvette excepted).
3) A 6-speed manual - everyone else has one, why can't we?
4) Better Interior materials - the '05-09 have great interior style, with horrible hard plastic
5) Cut out the cost cutting - Put the antenna in the glass, give me a trunk release button.
I personally love the current bodystyle and hope the newer model doesn't stray too far from it. However, given that it won't have an IRS (which is the only thing I truly dislike on my car) I am not planning on trading in.
Legacy TMS Member
Joined: February 2, 2004
Posts: 7,648
Likes: 675
From: Insane
I just have to come in here to update my previous response to this question. Wasn't favorable in the first one, but now...
Ford has seriously (insert unpleasant idea of awfulness) those tail lights. Never have I been so disgusted with such a redesign. I might have been ok with the backup lamps inside the middle parts, but that taper is just awful.
That I felt compelled to make two posts in two places about it shows how seriously they've backfired, in my opinion. And yes... I waited a little before making the decision to post here too.
So the update is now this: If they *gave* me one, I'd upgrade, but only because I get to keep the better looking car as well. There's no way this even passes muster as 'acceptable redesign'.
Way to screw it up, Ford. Geez.
/good grief, I'm almost sick about it... it's that awful IMO.
Ford has seriously (insert unpleasant idea of awfulness) those tail lights. Never have I been so disgusted with such a redesign. I might have been ok with the backup lamps inside the middle parts, but that taper is just awful.
That I felt compelled to make two posts in two places about it shows how seriously they've backfired, in my opinion. And yes... I waited a little before making the decision to post here too.
So the update is now this: If they *gave* me one, I'd upgrade, but only because I get to keep the better looking car as well. There's no way this even passes muster as 'acceptable redesign'.
Way to screw it up, Ford. Geez.
/good grief, I'm almost sick about it... it's that awful IMO.
Team Mustang Source
Joined: October 13, 2004
Posts: 2,842
Likes: 0
From: MD
I just have to come in here to update my previous response to this question. Wasn't favorable in the first one, but now...
Ford has seriously (insert unpleasant idea of awfulness) those tail lights. Never have I been so disgusted with such a redesign. I might have been ok with the backup lamps inside the middle parts, but that taper is just awful.
That I felt compelled to make two posts in two places about it shows how seriously they've backfired, in my opinion. And yes... I waited a little before making the decision to post here too.
So the update is now this: If they *gave* me one, I'd upgrade, but only because I get to keep the better looking car as well. There's no way this even passes muster as 'acceptable redesign'.
Way to screw it up, Ford. Geez.
/good grief, I'm almost sick about it... it's that awful IMO.
Ford has seriously (insert unpleasant idea of awfulness) those tail lights. Never have I been so disgusted with such a redesign. I might have been ok with the backup lamps inside the middle parts, but that taper is just awful.
That I felt compelled to make two posts in two places about it shows how seriously they've backfired, in my opinion. And yes... I waited a little before making the decision to post here too.
So the update is now this: If they *gave* me one, I'd upgrade, but only because I get to keep the better looking car as well. There's no way this even passes muster as 'acceptable redesign'.
Way to screw it up, Ford. Geez.
/good grief, I'm almost sick about it... it's that awful IMO.
Let's wait until we see the real deal in production colors before anyone gets sick. I'm not happy either but I'll at least give Ford a chance to show me the final product before I grab the barf bag!
Bullitt Member
Joined: December 17, 2007
Posts: 410
Likes: 0
I think we are getting off track here, by the way guys I take no offense we are just chatting nothing personal here. My whole argument is that the Mustang has been popular well before the 05' model. Yes heritage does make it's mark but did so before the 05 model. Think about it the Corvette, with an even longer history than the Mustang continues to remain popular even though each model distances it's self from the one before it. If you go to most Corvette guys they aint *****ing about the Vette looking too modern. I think the Vette's blend of bold, powerful looks and supercar performance levels at world beating prices will continue to keep it's fan base alive and well.
I think the biggest reason for Ford's success with the Mustang is that they have been able to keep the car fun, powerful, attractive and for the most part cheap. Will the 10' model sell if it is less retro? I think as long as they continue to follow the same basic formula of power, fun, cheap then the car will continue to be a strong seller.
On a side note the people on my case are all 5th gen owners and i'm a 4th gen owner so I think we all have our own level of bias here.
I think the biggest reason for Ford's success with the Mustang is that they have been able to keep the car fun, powerful, attractive and for the most part cheap. Will the 10' model sell if it is less retro? I think as long as they continue to follow the same basic formula of power, fun, cheap then the car will continue to be a strong seller.
On a side note the people on my case are all 5th gen owners and i'm a 4th gen owner so I think we all have our own level of bias here.
"I think the biggest reason for Ford's success with the Mustang is that they have been able to keep the car fun, powerful, attractive and for the most part cheap. Will the 10' model sell if it is less retro? I think as long as they continue to follow the same basic formula of power, fun, cheap then the car will continue to be a strong seller."
These virtues saved the Mustang's buttocks (See Boomer. See Boomer frown.) more than once over the decades: Even the obese '71s thru '73s were powerful and fun--driving one musta been the same thrills you'd get from piloting a paddle-wheeled steamboat through steep whitewater rapids...When the ride's over you're so grateful to still be alive!
I was a bona fide Chevy troll when I was young--my first full-time job was selling Chevies for a living. The intro of the '63 Stingray coupe left me muttering to myself in public--power (the 327 is the best engine Chevy ever made), sophistication (we're talkin' 1963 here, when even Cobras still had IRS suspended with transverse leaf springs and were powered by pushrod engines), and glamour (tons of it)! Sure, that styling would be considered waaayyyy overdone today, but that glamorous babe was astonishing compared to its 1963 rivals! Today's 'Vette, drab by comparison, could probably double its sales with a '63 retro styling job. Back in '63, the fuel-injected 327 Stingray gave nothing away to nobody (OK. 289 Cobras kicked sand in their faces, but there were only about a thousand 1963 Cobras so I never knew anyone who owned one nor do I know anyone who ever even saw a '63 Cobra on the highways in 1963. The later 427 Cobra was like the End of Time for this former bowtie boy) on the streets. It's OK to leave the 'Vette like it is--they sell well and Chevy probably couldn't up their production numbers very much due to their non-sheetmetal bodies. The Corvette needs an upgraded suspension vastly more than it needs bodywork, so that's where the bucks should be spent.
But I digress...the new Mustang's rear end disappoints me--the gray Pontiac cladding sucks and the tapered-end taillights and tapered-end bumper do, too. And I have never liked the '04 Mustang concept's grille as much as I like the standard S197 production grille (ditto for the large-mouthed-bass Shelby GT500 grille) so I get no relief viewing the front of the car (with the hugely chintzy chrome-trimmed turn signals in the headlight bezels). MAYBE they have done a great job on the sides--a true "C scoop" treatment instead of the current "oblique Ls" (aka "hockey sticks"), and a proper rear-fender kick-up...Have I pontificated enough for everyone yet? Bless you, my children...
So what does the picky-assed Mr. Eights feel should have been done? If they had put the standard '05 Mustang GT grille, hood, and front fenders on the front end of the Giugiaro concept, I would buy one immediately and never own another car for the rest of my life! I'd learn to live with the weird Salvador Dali taillights and the faux-gas-cap-with-a-dozen-or-so-tiny-backup-lights-around-its-rim contraption. I love the full fastback a la the sleek 1967 Mustangs and hope a full fastback is somewhere in the Mustang's future.
Last edited by Eights; Sep 9, 2008 at 09:14 AM. Reason: $%@#& time-out!
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 10,648
Likes: 2,519
From: Carnegie, PA
Agreed, I'll wait until the full reveal before passing final judgment, however as it stands right now. I intend on keeping my current 05 GT.
Bullitt Member
Joined: August 28, 2006
Posts: 430
Likes: 0
Normally 5.4L Aspirated Aluminum Bock with 400 HP and 400 lbs of torque (This could be a Boss)
Tremec 6-speed with a performance shifter
Big Brakes with the ducts and hoses in the truck (for the track guys)
Air-to-oil power steering fluid cooler
High capacity cooling system
Auxiliary engine oil coler
A performance suspension with adjustable shocks (Similar to current Shebly GT’s not the Bullet)
A cloth interior bolstered like the GT500
The GT500 steering wheel
No NAV
The base radio
No “fancy” dash stuff
Lose 200 -250 lbs
Tremec 6-speed with a performance shifter
Big Brakes with the ducts and hoses in the truck (for the track guys)
Air-to-oil power steering fluid cooler
High capacity cooling system
Auxiliary engine oil coler
A performance suspension with adjustable shocks (Similar to current Shebly GT’s not the Bullet)
A cloth interior bolstered like the GT500
The GT500 steering wheel
No NAV
The base radio
No “fancy” dash stuff
Lose 200 -250 lbs
Bullitt Member
Joined: December 17, 2007
Posts: 410
Likes: 0
Normally 5.4L Aspirated Aluminum Bock with 400 HP and 400 lbs of torque (This could be a Boss)
Tremec 6-speed with a performance shifter
Big Brakes with the ducts and hoses in the truck (for the track guys)
Air-to-oil power steering fluid cooler
High capacity cooling system
Auxiliary engine oil coler
A performance suspension with adjustable shocks (Similar to current Shebly GT’s not the Bullet)
A cloth interior bolstered like the GT500
The GT500 steering wheel
No NAV
The base radio
No “fancy” dash stuff
Lose 200 -250 lbs
Tremec 6-speed with a performance shifter
Big Brakes with the ducts and hoses in the truck (for the track guys)
Air-to-oil power steering fluid cooler
High capacity cooling system
Auxiliary engine oil coler
A performance suspension with adjustable shocks (Similar to current Shebly GT’s not the Bullet)
A cloth interior bolstered like the GT500
The GT500 steering wheel
No NAV
The base radio
No “fancy” dash stuff
Lose 200 -250 lbs
Greg "Eights" Ates
Bullitt Member
Joined: September 18, 2006
Posts: 356
Likes: 0
PERFECT OPTIONS ~ !!!
Normally 5.4L Aspirated Aluminum Bock with 400 HP and 400 lbs of torque (This could be a Boss)
Tremec 6-speed with a performance shifter
Big Brakes with the ducts and hoses in the truck (for the track guys)
Air-to-oil power steering fluid cooler
High capacity cooling system
Auxiliary engine oil coler
A performance suspension with adjustable shocks (Similar to current Shebly GT’s not the Bullet)
A cloth interior bolstered like the GT500
The GT500 steering wheel
No NAV
The base radio
No “fancy” dash stuff
Lose 200 -250 lbs
Tremec 6-speed with a performance shifter
Big Brakes with the ducts and hoses in the truck (for the track guys)
Air-to-oil power steering fluid cooler
High capacity cooling system
Auxiliary engine oil coler
A performance suspension with adjustable shocks (Similar to current Shebly GT’s not the Bullet)
A cloth interior bolstered like the GT500
The GT500 steering wheel
No NAV
The base radio
No “fancy” dash stuff
Lose 200 -250 lbs
Legacy TMS Member Pr
Joined: January 31, 2008
Posts: 5,665
Likes: 39
From: PR
I'd consider one if it was offered in stripper mode like the Fox LX and the SN95's GTS. Just with the minimum options like A/C and P/S. A six speed with either the 5.0 or the turbo four would be cool. If IRS is standard equipment it would be nice too.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post