375+ hp, better handling, a 6 speed or hot paddle shift option.... for under 32k. Better yet put HP around 330 and lighten the car a 300 or 400 pounds.

 

Wow. Great rant Eight. I like it!

 

Well other than yourself, nobody on this board has referred to hips, as rear-fender kickups. In fact I've never even heard of that term before, let alone having any idea as to what it was referring to.

And btw: at 50 years old, I was also around during the era of the original Mustangs, in which everybody I knew back in the day. Also referred to the Mustang's quarter panels, as either hips, shoulders, or haunches.

That being said, perhaps if you had been more specific in the first place. I wouldn't had misinterpreted your post to begin with !

 

Hey Eights, I have to disagree with your bashing of the 71-04 years. Don't you think part of the Mustang's success is that is has been able to keep a fresh and modern look throughout the ages? Though there are those that love the original 65-70 models, there is also a thriving following of the fox body and sn95 cars. The fox body guys are the reason why Mustangs have become so mod friendly. The sn95 guys are the reason why the current Mustang has so many different body kits to give each car it's own look. I feel that the 05' Mustang was influenced a great deal by the last 40 years of Mustang production and not just the first 5 or so models. Maybe i'm alone here but for 10' I hope the car moves away from the 05-09 retro cues. I'm a twenty-something male and I don't want a car that looks 30 years old before it rolls off the showroom floor. Ford should realize that baby boomers are not there only demographic for the Mustang.

As far as bashing the Camaro and Challenger, I suggest waiting for the performance specs and maybe take one for a drive before dismissing both rides. Because both are are newer than the current stang I would wager that both the Camaro and Challenger are more complete cars than your current Mustang. Styling is subjective, i'm not a huge fan of the Camaro's but I say the Challenger is sex on wheels. I don't mean to start a fight but I needed to get this off my chest. It bothers me when people like myself who have been a fan of the Mustang throughout it's history are told what a "real" Mustang is by the 05' Mustang guys.

 

i treat that gascap like a badge not a gascap so i like it; give the rear end a good look that i like plus the key goes in there so no worries but we will see what they do brother

 

Agreed!!!

 

This is true ... a lot of the 05-09 owners that have never owned an older Mustang say this all the time. For those in the group that have only owned an 05-09 Mustang have no idea whatsoever what a "real" Mustang is.

Some of these owners haven't been alive as long as the Mustang has been in production.

Good point you made here.

 

Unlike many here, I was just sixteen when the first Mustangs hit the dealerships. I stood in awe of the first G.T. 350s, I was dazzled by the Ford GT Mark II styling of the '67 Shelbys, I was amazed that a 428 (hardly famous for being fast at the time) could be so fast even in a lightweight coupe like the '68 Mustang fastback, I was thunderstruck that Ford would put the NASCAR Boss 429 in a Mustang instead of some model of Torino/Cyclone, and I was misty-eyed at the sheer magnificence of the '70 Boss 302.

Many of you ain't been there, done that. I know your suffering and try to be sympathetic as often as my Mustang genes will let me. I, too, have had my Mustang laments. To see such greatness taken to such depths in 1971--a portly Torino squeezed onto a Mustang wheelbase, to see the ascendance of the secretaries in 1974, and to see the crisp, bodacious styling become a chiseled brick in 1978--followed by a carved bar of soap with side scoops in the late 'Nineties. Lads, indeed there were some tragic years in the Dark Ages...The New Edge models brought the first faint glimmers of hope, despite their puckered sphincter (substitute the noun of your choice here--this is the Boomer PG-13 edition) grilles.

Finally, Hau Thai Tang realized that just powerful engines in a superbly-built two-door coupe was not enough, and made the Mustang young again. Women fainted, strong men weeped, and children fled into the woods. Yada yada yada...

If it were not so, why are Chrysler and GM imitating the Mustang yet again?

Your Honor, the Prosecution rests its case...

Greg "Eights" Ates

 

Yeah, engine in a box, just doesn't cut it.
While some people may want it, it's not enough to sell just that....

ALL about balance (and well the Mustang has a certain Mystique about it... )

 

How is making the car appeal to old timers making the car young again? I think it has done the opposite. Maybe it's making YOU feel young again. I've noticed the late model crowd has gotten much older lately. Going retro isn't all that original, VW did the same with the beetle, MINI with the Cooper.....even Ford with the T-Bird. Once again i'm not trashing the 05' car but I don't see the superiority of this current gen. Yeah it was popular when it first came out, I'd say just as popular as the "carved bar of soap" 94' model when it first came out. If we are all honest with ourselves here, it is safe to say that the 05' car's wow factor is gone. Sales figures prove this model is no more popular then the 4th gen and most of the 3rd gen year cars. Despite your opinion Ford was able to sell millions of "imitation Mustangs".

You began your last post by remembering the Mustang during your youth, well 3rd and 4th gen cars remind me of my youth. You talk of the GT350, Boss 302 etc....... well for me I've only needed one dream Mustang an SVT Cobra any generation and color and body style. Not only did these cars look the part they also were far more complete than any of the ancient Mustangs you mentioned above.

The Challenger and Camaro are back with retro cues because its the latest automotive fad. Lamborghini,Ferrari and even Toyota are making retro models too. Some of the little info we know about the 10' Mustang is that they wanted the car to look more modern, maybe not everyone wants to re-live the 60s after all. I think the best way to determine how successful the 5th gen cars really are is to look back at them in 10-20 years and see their true impact.

 

No offense, but not only do I strongly disagree with your statement. But it's also completely absurd as well. The fact of the matter, is if it had not been for the huge success and popularity of the current retro styled Mustang. Dodge would not had resurrected the Challenger after 35 years, nor would Chevy had followed suit with it's retro styled Camaro.

That being said, do you really think that for one moment, if Ford had extended the previous SN-95 generation, that the Challenger would be back in production after a 35 year extinction. If I were a betting man, I'd say chances would more than likely be slim to impossible.

The bottom line is: not only would the Challenger and Camaro not be coming back with retro cues, but they also wouldn't be returning at all, if not for the current 05-09 Mustang.

All in all, I'd consider the success of the current Mustang. Far more than just some automotive fad !

 

Do you think the only reason for the most recent Mustang's success was based on styling alone? Keep in mind that it was the first complete refresh on the car since 1979! This car was also leaps and bounds more improved from the 04' model in just about every performance category along with much improved interior layout for basically the same price as the previous gen. I agree that the Mustang influenced the styling of both the Challenger and Camaro, but there were other successful retro cars before the Mustang. Many argue that the Camaro's comeback was in the works before the 05' Mustang. I'm sure it wouldn't have looked anything like it does now without the Mustang but still Ford didn't reinvent the Muscle car. Ford's idea of making a 60s lookalike car wasn't original. The VW Beetle, MINI Cooper and PT Cruiser were all very retro cars that also sold very well at launch. I'm not saying retro styling is bad, but I feel it is being given way to much credit. This car, in my opinion is no more popular that the 94' Mustang that in some ways started some of the retro cues. I remember back in the day every TV show, magazine ad and movie featured a 94 GT just like we first saw in 05' with the current Mustang.

 

It would have to look a lot like 2003 concept and t-top would be nice too.

 

m05fastbackGT is totally, absolutely correct--if the '05 had been just another "contemporary restyling" of the SN-95, Chevy would still be offering the Monte Carlo SS (Smirk!) as its "sporty" model and Dodge would only be offering the 4-door automatic Charger as its "sporty" model. "Sheesh", says Boomer...

This is not meant to be a "bash 97GT03SVT" session, but facts are facts. The Mustang is extremely popular with the under-thirty consumers--Mustangs being the number one vehicle of choice for first time car owners, most of whom are neutered by having to settle for the Civic that is the parental vehicle of choice for their sons & daughters. A huge percentage of them are hoping to get Mustangs...

If all a performance vehicle means to a person is just a box with a big engine in it, then that person should seek out one of the old 440 Darts--plenty of engine and plenty of box but zero passion. Passion is what sets the Mustang apart from the run-of-the-mill so-called performance cars of today. Heritage is what makes the '05 the pinnacle of that passion--you can look at an '05 and see that heritage of greatness in its crisp legendary lines that bespeak of G.T. 350s, Boss 302s, Riverside, Laguna Seca, the Trans-Am, Parnelli, and Gurney. Or Tommy Grove, the Winternationals, Pomona, and Bristol. Or even Mickey Thompson and Bonneville.

Decades from now, automotive editors will look back on 2005 as the year that saved affordable performance from oblivion for all of us, and the reason will be the S197 Mustang. Are there 35 tuner manufacturers offering tuner Mustangs currently, or is it more than that now? Ford itself offers the FR500C, the FR500GT, the FR500S, the FR500GT4 and the FR500GT3--bad-posteriors (the eyes of Boomer are upon me) for every budget. The S197 was not just a refreshed Mustang, it was a sea change in what affordable performance vehicles are all about--nothing like this has happened since 1964, April 17th to be exact. How many of you were even born then? Prior to that, it had only happened one other time--when the '32 Ford flathead V8 first hit the dealerships of Depression America.

This is automotive history being made--you can be a part of it now. Or you can read about those who were a part of it decades from now. History will prove me right...

Respectfully,
Greg "Eights" Ates

 

I think we are getting off track here, by the way guys I take no offense we are just chatting nothing personal here. My whole argument is that the Mustang has been popular well before the 05' model. Yes heritage does make it's mark but did so before the 05 model. Think about it the Corvette, with an even longer history than the Mustang continues to remain popular even though each model distances it's self from the one before it. If you go to most Corvette guys they aint *****ing about the Vette looking too modern. I think the Vette's blend of bold, powerful looks and supercar performance levels at world beating prices will continue to keep it's fan base alive and well.

I think the biggest reason for Ford's success with the Mustang is that they have been able to keep the car fun, powerful, attractive and for the most part cheap. Will the 10' model sell if it is less retro? I think as long as they continue to follow the same basic formula of power, fun, cheap then the car will continue to be a strong seller.

On a side note the people on my case are all 5th gen owners and i'm a 4th gen owner so I think we all have our own level of bias here.

 

Good stuff here, 97GT03SVT! It's a given that anything we post isn't personal. Sure, Mustangs were popular before the S197s came out as '05 models in late '04--they have been excellent affordable performance cars from Day One with highs (the Cobra Rs) even while generally adrift stylistically for the 31 model years beginning with the '71s (Mustangs so wrong that I liked the '70-and-a-half Camaros and Firebirds much better) and continuing through the '04s. Fine cars, but with no definable styling direction. To me, the Foxes woulda made great Falcons (US Falcons--not Aussie Falcons)--they lacked that agressive styling of the first three Mustang editions and had zero Mustang DNA. The late 'Nineties Mustangs woulda made great two-door Taurus SHOs, if Ford had wanted two-door Taurus SHOs with RWD. Take away the side scoops and the crease along the top of the fenders/doors and you essentially had a RWD two-door Taurus anyway. Mustangs have a look--and it's a look that can be varied considerably while still being unmistakably a Mustang--you see that look in the first Mustangs, the second Mustangs, the third Mustangs, and the current Mustangs (which is why Ford didn't have to spell out "Mustang" on the S197s). Four editions of the same car, but all of them exciting, aggressive, and beautiful! Aston Martins are much the same--the heritage of the DB5 can still be seen in the Aston Martins being crafted even as I type. Ditto Porsche 911s, and all the derivative Porsche model numbers meaning "a newer 911". (To be continued--gotta Save or lose it all)

 

Eights love your posts.
What are your thoughts on what the 2010 will bring us? Do you think it will be a step forward or will the 05-09 be the one they got right?

 

I tell you what Eights, I don't think this sparring match will ever end lol. I get what you are saying about the changes over time but that defined the era and times the cars were built. During the 80s almost every car out there became more boxy in the aero wars. Other classics like the Corvette, T-Bird, F-Body twins all got similar treatment. It was considered very modern and hip looking for it's period. As for the 94-98 cars the same can be said with bubbled curvy shapes. I think this car was the first model since the Mustang II to somewhat resemble an original Mustang (Chrome pony in the grille, 3 element tail lights, long hood short deck, even the dash is similar to the ones in 69-70). When I look at the 94-04 car I see original Mustang DNA in there, don't get me wrong it's not to the degree of the current car but it has that DNA mixed with modern styling.

I hope that in the future the Mustang evolves into something new. Once again I like the current gen but lets go on to something new. I guess it works for Porsche but i'd rather my car stand out in a couple years and not look like every Mustang ever made. I'm not a Porsche guy but to be honest I can't tell the difference between an 08' 911 and a 98' 911. That is something I wouldn't want to happen to the Mustang. I say if you like the look of the classic Mustang go out and buy one. I know I'm fighting a losing battle here because I'm a minority with that opinion and i'm in a mostly 05-up Mustang forum but hey what can I tell you I like to debate.

 

Thank you for the compliment, DarkCandy08GT! The '05-'09 is the odds on favorite to be the one they got right: leftlanenew.com has more camouflaged 2010 pics and those absolutely wretched chrome-rimmed front turnsignals in the headlight bezels have apparently made it into the production Mustang. Boomer would hyperventilate if I properly expressed my disgust

But the dorky back-up lights separating the taillight lenses into threes may have gotten the axe (praise be to God, Zeus, Odin, Jupiter, Allah, Buddha and any other deities I may have overlooked).

A mild rear fender kick-up is evident (w00t!).

A Shelby-esque grille shape (actually, a grille more resembling the '04 S197 concept, to be more politically and factually correct) is evident, too, but the grille doesn't resonate when those awful chrome-rimmed POS turnsignals mar the entire front end. What were they thinking???

The rear-end appears to be slanted forward, which may look OK once the camo is removed. I'll just have to see the car to decide if it's a detraction or a benefit.

If I had to take a stand right now, I'd say keep your '05s through '09s. I do reserve the right to change this opinion without notice once I've seen the genuine item

 

Personally, what I can make out gives the impression of a change similar to what we got when the 66 Mustang gave way to the 67 model. Lower, leaner, sleeker, and meaner. What I can make out thus far I really like, and I'm hoping the car is as fantastic as the hints given thus far lead me to believe when we finally see her sans camo.