GTJOHN

My mistake. I didn't know the 5.8 Boss was going to be GDI or other.
Ford could be looking into a smaller V8? It makes more sense, when you look at what the Mazda & D35 V6 are doing.

Boomer

Hey John,

Yeah, if its the same article I read coupled with talk from others.
It only makes sense for them to share a platform to distribute costs.

But seeing as the new Falcon is still on the old platform still, and the new platform if I remember correctly comes to fruition after 2012ish

(this is the basis on the idea that the Mustang will be a 2009-2011/12 and then be totally redesigned, on that shared platform)
So the rumour has some truth to it, but when the car actually comes out ON that platform, who knows.

The old LS1 was 5.7L and got great mileage, no reason why the 5.8L BOSS can't either.
I wouldn't put faith into the 'cancelling' rumours, let's just wait and see. (i hate that part...)

instigator311

Came across this today:

http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums...30#entry188082

"Switching gears for a moment. There was a 7 liter Hurricane powered Mustang out at Milan Dragway today. It is code named 777, 7 liter, 700 HP @ 7000 rpm. It is just an engineering exercise so don't get overly excited. It ran 9.20's @ 3300 lbs. Not bad for a two valve SOHC, no turbo, no DI."

Like he said, don't get overly excited, but how could you not?

Knight

dang. I hope he honestly knew that information. Must have been a drag setup as a 700hp street car would never touch a 9.2 sec 1/4.

Boomer

Still pretty 'effin' cool

ttbit

I think the ONLY reason any of them sold was BECAUSE of the 400 hp. Have you ever seen one of those?

GM has made ugly car after ugly car with crappy rattle-trap interiors year after year, but with good HP numbers and drivetrains. I think they finally learned that "looks" sells before performance. After all, anyone can add power with money, but you can't just go out there and design a car.

I could go on and on about the GM mistakes, but to this thread, the lack of drivetrain options is not really a big deal as there is so much aftermarket. I bought my GT thinking that some years from now, I will go out and make it what I want like I have with my previous Mustangs. Most Mustang owners tweak their cars in one way or another and that makes it different from most cars. Bring out the SE's so I can admire, but I won't be dumping my 401k into one.

instigator311

Of course some people jumped on the 400 hp, just like some people would jump on an SE Mustang with 400 hp. That kind of performance only attracts some buyers unfortunately. A less powerful option may have attracted more buyers; perhaps they could have kept the LS1 or offered a V6 along with the 2005 styling changes and then offered the LS2 as a new Judge or something along those lines. The styling definately played a role in poor sales, but I'd like to see a 400 hp Mustang with the current body style stand on its own without the help of the 4.0 and 4.6.

I'm sure the hype and emotions connected with the new Camaro's design will make it sell well for atleast the first couple of years, but perhaps having the 5.3 L as the base V8 wouldn't be such a horrible idea. If the rumor is true and Ford will be attempting to put a smaller V8 in instead of the 5.8, than maybe Ford had the same thought. Gas prices and emissions standards deserve a lot of the blame, but the Hemi and LS engines get pretty much the same gas mileage as the Mustang's 4.6. A more efficient small V8 would be great, but I would be willing to bet that a lot of potential buyers out there don't do enough research and comparisons to know this and the simple this car has 300 hp versus this car has 400 hp will be enough for them. I'm going to assume that the majority of the potential buyers that will generate large volumes of sales are middle income people that are just looking for that car that they can afford and have fun with, and more power to these uninformed buyers with small funds will translate into being too costly. I've seen many of those.

Just my thoughts...

Knight Rider

You do realize that the GTO is basically a Vauxhall Monaro in disguise, or is Vauxhall part of GM

kevinb120

Holden Monaro

The only thing wrong with that car was the name. If it was called the GTP-R or something other then GTO it would of sold. As dumb and idea as re-naming the 500 a Taurus. lol at this entire thread from one sentence on a forum from an anonymous poster.

Knight Rider

DAM IT NFS CARBON MESSED UP

GTJOHN

I still think gas mileage is playing a part in the rumored cancellation of the 5.8L Boss even if the engine is GDI.
I believe Ford decided to look further into the future and rethink their strategy. I am thinking something smaller, 3.8L - 5.0L?
Hypothetically, a smaller V8 with the same technology should get better gas mileage.

kevinb120

I believe Vauxhall also gets a version of it

Boomer

Ya know what...
Not even knowing what these engines put out...or have for Gas Mileage... hard to say.

However, removing the 5.8 has me thinkin about other avenues/options that Ford has... or will have...

GTJOHN

Too many questions and not enough answers!

Moosetang

There's gobs of material to work with. Mod V10s, Yamaha V8 derivatives, updated AJ-V8, low-cost Jag 5.0 derivatives, New Mod-style family, etc.

bob

Think of the dynamic state of the engine - smaller engines don't nessecarily equate to better fuel consumption (unless all things are equal relative to the size of the engine - ie; engine speed - amount of air entering the engine relative to its max volume, ect, ect, ect.) Its why GM stuffs relatively big engines in thier vehicles. The vehicles can loaf along at super low engine speeds with the throttle just cracked enough to keep it going while closing off a few cylinders.

bob

Y'know a short deck (meaning 4.6 deck height) V10 using the regular mod bore and bore spacing only needs about a 3.048" stroke to get 302 cubic inches. Giving it the oversquare bore to stroke ratio people obsess about. Combine that with a 4v head based on the GT500 unit and it would be the modern day equivalent of the much loved Boss 302.

Less'see - at 6250 RPM, the 4.6 has a piston speed of about 3700 feet per minute - and this is probably a very safe limit imposed on the engine. Said motor could rev to 7283 rpm and still maintain the 3700 FPM of the current engine and said V10 would only be about 4 inches longer than the current V8. The only downside I can think of would be about a (and this is shakey math as I'm not to familiar on how to calculate engine drag) 20% increase in the amount of drag in the engine, but the shorter stroke (and if the engine used the same 4.6 rod) would offset some of this.

The same engine using a square bore and stroke would make 351 cubic inches.

Boomer

Holden Monaro = Vauxhall Monaro = Pontiac GTO

ttbit

Not sure on the business layout, but I do realize that it is an Aussie car shipped over. I'm pretty much a car nut, so I did follow it when it was announced.

When I put a 5.0 in my Ranger, I gained 3 mpg over the 2.0 4 cylinder that was in there originally. Granted, you don't see too many severly underpowered engines that would cause a big v8 to be more efficient anymore, but it is possible. Throwing a twin screw supercharger on a car, or a turbo can improve gas mileage also, which is the opposite of what people would think.

Instigator: Are you saying you think the GTO would have sold if they had cheaper versions of the car? Is that what you mean?

Kevin...I agree. Calling the 500 a Taurus is a mistake, IMO.

instigator311

Cheaper yes, but more specifically less powerful variants. I actually thought that the price of the GTO was a pretty good deal overall, it's just that I think that 400 hp is more car than most people are looking for. It'll be interesting to see how low GM can get the price of the Camaro, and Ford the Mustang if it gets the new Boss V8.