Bucko

Amen

Thamac15

Engines on avg are around 300k miles, starters every year due to constantly starting throughout the day, we do a couple trans a year. The f350 bobtails are twin turbo and we have to rebuild these quit often due to abuse.

We dont Change the oil so regular because we want to,...these are technical guidelines ordered down from the secretary of the air force. If we deviate from tech orders we get a time out.

Improper lubrication? Get this guy, he's funny. Send me a reference in a pm on how changing oil early causes wear on these engines. Happy hunting.

I'll try and get a copy of our lubrication tech order for our climate (Phoenix). 40 weight for most applications. Our temps rarely get in the 40s but for 5 straight months we are 115 and higher. I personally use 30 weight year round. But all my engines have blown up from 30 weight and changing the oil to frequently. My 08 tundra with 175k miles is probably about to, my 16 yr old high school kid scion with 90k miles may be on the verge of wear down due to 30 weight.

TheDivaDanielle

I change the oil on my car at least once a day, sometimes twice. Can never be too careful when it comes to maintenance.

Thamac15

You're not dedicated,...every 12 hrs is required by law.

HOSS429

if i take the oil out of one of my cars and put it in another is that still considered an oil change

AlsCobra

Is this thread still going? Spend more time driving instead of posting and you would have enough mileage by now.

newpony

A coworker of mine claimed he never changes the oil on his cars. He just adds oil if level is low. He thinks this whole change oil every 3K/5K miles is something the oil manufacturer invented to keep them in business. He claims he never had a problem doing it this way but them again, he never pays more than $2000 for a car.

Thamac15

This is the chart for our diesel and gas engines. Most are 07 and up with two 05s. Just viscosity here.

Double-EDad

Oh boy, another oil change thread!!

Does anyone else find it interesting that oil change intervals radically expanded right about the same time many manufacturers (not all, but ones like BMW) began offering free maintenance for the first few 10,000 miles? And are they really going to care what happens to your engine as long as they can get it to about 100k miles?

I am a mechanical engineer so I am also savvy to the fact that we are also beyond the days of SF/SG oil ( I think we're at SF/SN now). However, the distrust is one of the Bean counters and accountants and lawyers mucking up what ought to be a truly technical recommendation. Nevertheless, with no documented "special"/break-in oil in the new cars I went ahead & changed my oil at 1200 miles, but will go by the oil life gauge from here on out. That is all.

Bucko

Engines such as ours with the TiVCT have been discussed here before. It is recommended that they use only 5w-20; not just for CAFE fuel mileage, but for the adjusting valve timing. It works off of oil temp and oil pressure, designed around 5w-20 for the V6 and GT 5.0's

Trust me. Don't challenge this. Just use it.

Thamac15

^^^ I'll just blow my engine instead with amsoil 30 wt. lol I'm just messing with you.

airoscar

I'm also a mechanical(petroleum) engineer. I choose to stick to the 8000KM for the first oil change. I think the small particles of metal debris in the oil (smaller than filter can catch) helps the engine break-in, thus the name "break-in oil".

But I honestly don't think it matters much; someone specialized in automotive engineering may say otherwise.

Thamac15

Can u explain how small particles of metal that the filter can't catch HELPS the engine break in? Not being an A hole but rather wanting to know if this somehow has some logic behind it. I learned at UTI for tech school that soot. Dirt, and metal make oil coarse that becomes like sandpaper on metal and creates wear.

Best oil is clean oil?

airoscar

No, I understand, it does sound ridiculous.

The reason for break-in, is because the surface finish in the engine (particular the surface between cylinder walls and piston rings) are rough from machining, even the finest machining. Break-in lets these components wear against each other so the surface becomes smoother and better sealed against each other.

It's the very fine metal particles I was talking about, that is capable of passing through the oil filter. Just think of it as polishing compounds that polishes the paint of your car. after all in break-in period, you are trying to wear the engine, just enough to wear the rough surface down. we are talking really really small micro scale here.

Modern engines are made with much better machining, so they don't require much break-in, thus you can change your first oil very soon. Not sure if these engines are broken-in in factories already, someone working for one of the automakers would probably know better with first hand experience.

Edit: and yeah, clean oil is definitely the best oil, but break-in is a "wear" process.

1 fast Ford

https://themustangsource.com/f726/fi...n-pics-505685/
this^

Shifterboy45

did someone mention free maintenance service and BMW in the same breath?

every BMW required a 1200mi service until 1992 (when engine technology changed) Now only the M car get the run-in service

when the Maint program started SIA data was the only guideline -- this was based solely off of total fuel consumption per interval.

Now CBS4 is used, computing ign cycles, time of drive cycles, operating temp reached or not, oil sedimentation and particulate count. fuel quality, air flow restrictions and various other operating variables.

So you could say that the free maint came at a cost of engineering more advanced engine monitoring. the program runs as long as the limited warranty 4yr/50km ... pretty confident

oh sorry -- back to the regular programming

Bucko

I'd be leary of buying a BMW after 4 years of it being on their free maintenance....BMW is so confident now of their engines, they don't equip them anymore with a dipstick. Instead, they have an onscreen picture you pull up to indicate the oil level.
Then again, Ford doesn't include one on their automatic transmissions. Maybe there is something to all this new engineering....

First Stang

Ah, the sound of reason!

Thamac15

This is great info I didn't know, thanks sir.

sscobra

Couldn't stay out of this. There is a ton of bad information in this thread. Please read:









No matter how well the parts are manufactured, or how meticulous your engine builder is in maintaining his tolerances, the internals of your engine still have a lot of relatively 'rough' friction surfaces when freshly put together. I'm talking about rings, cams, rockers, and bearings...stuff like that. There is a lot of processes manufacturers put their parts through to ensure that they have the desired 'hardness' that is required for long life: Heat treating, 'Tuftriding', things like that. Anyway, for approximately the first 10-12,000 miles of a fresh engine's life, the parts all go through a combination of physical and molecular changes. First, there is a tremendous (relatively speaking) amount of friction on these surfaces for the first 12K, and the result is that the parts are reaching what engineers call 'equilibrium'. The parts are wearing into a state of near perfect smoothness, in relation to each other. Much more perfectly smooth than any manufacturer could ever produce. Secondly, as this first 12K elapses the internal parts of the engine are also going through a 'molecular' change (for want of a better word): The best hardening processes used by manufacturers cannot achieve what the constant heat and operation of 12K can put the parts through. The parts will become even more hardened, and much more resistant to wear and tear. But they also become more brittle. For those reasons, it is vitally important that you operate your car in a variety of driving styles during this high-friction break-in period to ensure that the internals are fully worn-in, or 'seated' by the time 'equilibrium' sets in. If the parts are not fully worn-in by that time, then the new-found brittleness will cause an excess of wear and tear, shortening the engine's life. For that reason, it is a good idea to stick with regular 'dino' for the break-in period, so that you will have enough friction to wear in the parts, but not so much that you are damaging the engine. Since there is so much friction, and therefore much more microscopic (but still damaging!) particulate matter present in the oil, I would recommend changing it at the first 200 miles, then at 500 miles, and then every 1,000-1,500 miles until you have reached about 12K. At this point, you have done everything possible to help your engine reach as near a perfect state of 'equilibrium' as possible, and no more break-in is necessary. That means that now you want to have as little internal friction as possible. At this point, switch to a good full synthetic. Synthetic lubricates MUCH better than any conventional oil, which of course reduces internal friction. An engine that is properly broken in and in good operating condition, and with fresh fluids in it will suffer practically NO wear and tear for many thousands of miles. Synthetic also does not have any of the damaging trace elements in it (phosphorous, sulfur, etc...) that helps to create sludge and corrosive acids when combined with the by-products of combustion. The phosphorous, when combined with the remnants of the unburned hydro-carbons (gas), and then oxidized creates an acid that is chemically identical to battery acid. This most often leads to premature bearing failure and excessive cam wear. Since there is more actual oil in a full synthetic formula, there is more lubrication available to you. Plus, the relatively 'pure' base stocks do not introduce any unwanted elements into your engine.