Hollywood_North GT

Well, that's one promise you've already broken.

I am...?

Yeah, those gall darn press and their inconvenient reporting. Maybe you'll get lucky and D!ck Cheney will abolish the fourth estate...right after he declares himself an independent power and no longer a part of the executive branch.

You're confusing the message because you don't happen to like the messenger.







Yeah, you're right, it's just happening "because...". Or, it could be "little green men" maybe.

Well, that's twice you've screwed up now, then. Three times, if you count the insult based on nationality.

Knight

well actually it is true that global warming is a natural occurance.... we are coming out of an ice age.

but i am sure the stuff we are doing is most likly making it worse.

Hollywood_North GT

Well, of course, periods of warming and cooling have occured all throughout the history of our planet. Nobody disputes that - it's common knowledge - but the extreme right wing oil lobby uses that information to confuse the issue of human contributions, which science has now proven is responsible for the enormous spike in CO2 emissions measured during the period commonly categorized as the post-industrial revolution.

But hey, the "global-warming-is-a-myth" people are entitled to believe what they want...even if they're wrong. Just like they're entitled to sit around smoking, eating 10 pounds of red meat every day, and trying to convince people that dinosaurs walked with man in the Garden of Eden 5000 years ago when God created the Earth.

htwag

I never did think that a nuclear holocaust would take place and I think
YK2 would happen. I do think we are influencing global climate but not at the level that Al claims. Remember that ozygen level 500-700 years ago were difference from today; that Europe went through a mini-ice age less than a 1,000 years ago, and that smokin' grass does not lead to automatic jumps into the 'hard drugs." FYI, I never been drunk and never smoked grass, but I don't one leads to the other. I would John Edwards to tell the truth (and in North Carolina not everyone adores him). So the solution?
Drive smarter; recycle; and use your head.

MrClean

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean were not out to get you! Yes I did screw up....I took the bait from the left-wing Canadian with conspiracy-theory paranoia
Science has not proven anything...the data is flawed and skewed...in fact real scientists are in opposition of the premise of the "documentary" (misnomer)

Good point, HTWAG Did you take a look at the info on DMF?

Hollywood_North GT

So the second person singular past, plural past, and past subjunctive of 'be' is out to get me?

Uh-oh.



And, apparently, you continue to take it.

Yeah, kinda like the data on Darwin is flawed and skewed, and the "real" science is that Adam and Eve used to ride around bareback on top of a Triceratops.

And I hear that overpopulation of the Earth and the clear-cutting of forests in the Amazon are myths, too.



"Real" scientists, eh? I'm talking about the peer-reviewed majority. Let's see a list of your "real" scientists. If they're the ones people like you usually trot out, a quick investigation into their pasts will reveal that they are in the back pockets of Big Oil.

All joking aside, you need to educate yourself on the other side of the equation - beyond just the talking points of the oil lobby. Your argument is cliched and lacks any real penetration of the issues at hand.

MrClean

Come down to and me and my Big Oil co will show you some penetration!!

Joking aside, maybe we could meet on this side of the border to talk about it "cara a cara"?

I do have a question for you: If you're so concerned about global warming, the environment and big oil, why are you driving a Mustang with a gas-guzzling V8, and not a hybrid, or mini car like a Honda Fit / VW Jetta (on biodiesel) or some other econobox?

I say put your money where your mouth is...sell that gas-guzzler and drive something in line with your political and environmental views.

Hollywood_North GT

Sorry, but I don't "bat for the other team."

On one condition: Plane fare's on you.

Hollywood_North GT

Now THAT'S actually a great question.

Here's my answer: Until fundamental change is mandated by government, none of us by ourselves are going to make much difference to the environment by purchasing "fuel efficient" cars, other than a token "political" statement. Moreover, buying a more fuel efficient "hybrid car" is of no benefit whatsoever, if you stop to consider the environmental impact of mining and smelting and transporting the nickel used in the hybrid battery (not to mention the disposal of same).

No, the car that does the least damage is the car that isn't driven ... or conversely, is driven relatively little. What I'm saying here is that it's not so much WHAT you drive, but HOW OFTEN you drive it. I don't drive my Mustang to-and-fro work every day. In fact, when I go into the city I use public transportation. The Mustang is insured for pleasure use only and doesn't get driven more than three or four days a week. So my environmental impact is probably no greater (or less) than someone who commutes 20 miles a day, every day, in a Yaris.

Evil_Capri

Is this one of the "real" scientists you are refering to with a Big Oil past?

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/...ming020507.htm

I'd double check that "peer review" as well. Adding a signature doesn't constitute a "review" in my opinion.

That being said, we could all live cleaner. There is nothing wrong with that notion. A little personal responsibility could go a long way in our everyday lives.

. . . . Eve bareback naked on a Triceratops . . . interesting.

AFBLUE

Looks like our CO2 emissions are starting to effect Mars too
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...s-warming.html

MrClean

Well, my knee-jerk reaction yesterday was to object to NHGT's left wing propaganda, but I'm going to make a conscious effort to keep an open mind on the subject, regardless of whom I work for. And , yes NHGT, I sometimes don't delve into a subject as deeply as I might...to do so properly would require extensive research...but I suggest I'm not the only one, and I frankly don't have the time.

I will consider buying some land in Colorado, at about, oh 5000 feet of altitude, just to be on the safe side of the polar ice cap melting issue!

karman

I think we may be getting a little of topic here.
This whole global warming thing is only a small sub-catagory of the topic.
Perhaps a new thread would be better.

MrClean

+1 THANK YOU!!

Been monitoring (not delving deeply) the Blue Oval forum, and it seems to me the platform of the next Stang will be the same, and probably the suspension too, so what we have to look fwd to is an improved 4.6 V8 and perhaps a 6 spd tranny.....I remember seeing a poll by Ford on whether we'd buy a Mustang with a 4.6 4V (termy) engine...

The thing is, this engine could be evolved further; a higher compression ratio could be used by switching from port fuel injection to Piezo-electric direct fuel injection (it has a cooling effect, defraying the detonation further) and increasing the effectiveness of the combustion without needing higher revs. Higher revs is another area where the performance envelope could be improved...the torque numbers might not change, but the HP would. The engine already produces more tq than hp (undersquare?). We could concievably see 350 ft/lb and 400 hp from the above combination of changes.


This, in combination with a better spread of shorter gears (6 vs 5), to make better use of the HP, and we could have a competitive car with the other Pony cars that might make it to the market in 2009/2010.

Oh, and more efficiency means a comparatively smaller "carbon footprint" to appese the tree-huggers.

hi5.0

Tree-hugger or not, if the above engine improvements pan out, it could also mean spending less at the pump for an increased level of performance.

MrClean

Yep. And the tooling for the above isn't otherworldly: upgrade the material for the conrods (for the higher rpms), and the heads get redesigned to accept 4V/cyl and DFI. Another thing that could help is VVT. The DFI/VVT could make for better low rpm tq, which in turn could mean the deletion of the CMCV's, which by itself would make the engine a more efficient mill. Come to think of it, DFI would mean the deletion of the CMCV's because the mixture would be happening in-cylinder...

Ford is hemorrageing (sp?) engineering talent as we speak, but this stuff could mostly be outsourced....make a deal with the Audi group for the DFI systems and reworked heads....

FORD: ARE YOU LISTENING???

Hollywood_North GT

I'd be very interested in learning who signs Timothy Ball's cheques, particularly given that he states - not implies mind you, but openly STATES - that human CO2 emissions are having NO effect upon global warming. That statement is just patently false, and merely obfuscates the problem and propogates the delay in doing anything about it. Notice he trots out the usual talking points of anti-climate change propoganda: "...we believed, 30 years ago, that global cooling was the biggest threat..." or "...why most people choose not to speak out; job security and fear of reprisals." Both of those excuses have been proven to be nothing more than red herrings.

A couple of more tip offs >> On the one hand he states, "In another instance, I was accused by Canadian environmentalist David Suzuki of being paid by oil companies. That is a lie." But then he contradicts that statement by saying, "Apparently he thinks if the fossil fuel companies pay you have an agenda." The latter statement is inherently defensive and practically an admission that he IS paid by them, otherwise, there would be no point in making it.

And the trotting out of Michael Crichton as a "legitimate scientist"? Puhlease...! "I am not alone in this journey against the prevalent myth. Several well-known names have also raised their voices. Michael Crichton, the scientist, writer and filmmaker is one of them. In his latest book, "State of Fear" he takes time to explain, often in surprising detail, the flawed science behind Global Warming and other imagined environmental crises. While trained in science, Crichton is first and foremost a science FICTION author, not an up-to-date, experiential, peer-reviewed scientist. Gimmie a break.

All these individuals that Ball trots out are very much in the minority. And he, himself, does NOTHING to dispute the science point-by-point - which is, perhaps, the biggest tip off.

On the other hand, the effects of climate change and environmental degradation are all around us. What follows is a selection of recently reported symptoms of our global illness >>

1 - British Columbia

Pine beetle

ISSUE: The spread of the Mountain Pine Beetle is directly attributable to climate change according to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report released last month in Brussels. The beetle epidemic -- which has already destroyed a forest area in British Columbia the size of New Brunswick and threatens to spread across the country < is the result of milder temperatures, which allow the beetle to survive the winter.

FORECAST: There are 1.2 billion cubic metres of pine at risk in the Interior, worth $240 billion. Only a long, cold winter freeze can eradicate the pest.
__________________________________________________ _____

Retreating glaciers

ISSUE: Dozens of glacier systems that provide drinking water to communities across the province are at their lowest ebb in 5,000 to 8,000 years, according to researchers at the University of Victoria.

FORECAST: The glacial retreat that started in 1992 has seen two major ice shelf collapses and is continuing to accelerate. Increasingly hot, droughty summers raise risk of potentially toxic algae blooms in drawn-down fresh water supplies.
__________________________________________________ __

2 - Canada

Drought

ISSUE: Parched conditions of the province's southeastern tip < around Milk River < are expected to stretch much farther north, engulfing Lethbridge, Medicine Hat and all farmland in between. A U.C. Berkeley researcher warns that increasingly droughty conditions in Alberta will rob the province’s rivers of water and lead to conflict between farmers, industry and urban dwellers.

FORECAST: Temperatures in Calgary are expected to rise up to 3.5 C by mid-century and leave the Red Deer River with 13 per cent less water, the Bow with a 10-per-cent decrease, the South Saskatchewan with 8.5 per cent less water and the Oldman with a four-per-cent reduction.
__________________________________________________ ___

The Arctic

ISSUE: Adventurer Will Steger reports that Inuit hunters are unable to build igloos to protect themselves from the elements during the winter because of spring-like temperatures. Many of the Inuit have given up hunting on the sea ice, which is now so thin that some senior hunters have fallen through and died. Strong full moon tides are breaking up the thin sea ice leaving Inuit cut off from their traditional hunting grounds.

FORECAST: According to the Arctic Climate Impact Assessment Report, temperatures in the arctic could rise up to seven degrees over this century.
__________________________________________________ _____

Sea ice

ISSUE: About 100 boats including several icebreakers were caught in exceptionally thick pack ice off Newfoundland¹s northeast coast for more than a week in mid-April. Sea ice studies in Hudson Bay reveal a significant thickening of sea ice at measurement stations on the western side of the bay and a trend toward thinner ice in the east, due to changing temperature patterns (colder autumns in the west) and heavier snowfall, which provides an insulating blanket for existing early season ice and discourages further ice formation.

FORECAST: Changing precipitation patterns could lead to impassable sea ice in some areas and its disappearance in others, such as the Northwest Passage.
__________________________________________________ _____

THE REST OF THE WORLD

3 - Galapagos Islands

ISSUE: Made famous by Charles Darwin as a natural evolutionary laboratory, the Galapagos Islands have been declared at risk of irreparable environmental harm as a result of tourism, growing cruiseship traffic and the presence of 15,000 illegal residents. About 100,000 people a year visit the Galapagos National Park, which encompasses 97 per cent of the archipelago, a Unesco World Heritage Site home to giant tortoises, marine iguanas and blue-footed boobies.

FORECAST: Ecuador may severely curtail tourism and has already hatched a plan to reduce the use of gasoline and diesel.
__________________________________________________ _____

4 - Greenland

ISSUE: Sea ice west of Greenland is in steep decline after expanding for several years, according to scientists. To study the currents that flow through the gap between Canada and Greenland, three Narwhal whales have been outfitted with transmitters that supply satellite trackers with 400 temperature readings a day at depths of more than 1.7 kilometres, right through the winter when such readings were once impossible.

FORECAST: The deep Gulf Stream currents in Baffin Bay are part of an ocean convection system that moderates weather and air temperature in northern Europe, where extreme weather events are on the rise.
__________________________________________________ _____

5 - Brazil

ISSUE: Soybean cultivation, driven by demand for biofuels, now covers eight million hectares and is a major direct and indirect cause of deforestation. Because it absorbs less heat than forest or pasture, soy fields are creating increasingly dry conditions.

FORECAST: Brazil has lost 570,000 square kilometres of forest cover, initiating a destructive cycle in which deforestation leads to drought and drought to increased deforestation.
__________________________________________________ _____

6 - Florida

ISSUE: The United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change identifies Florida’s coast as vulnerable to intense storms and rising water. Rising ocean temperatures extended the red tide bloom in 2005 to nearly 48 weeks out of 52, sparking a record fish kill.

FORECAST: Sea levels have increased by 22 cm since 1930 and at that pace the coastline would push inland up to 600 metres this century, contaminating fresh water aquifers and marshes. Manatee populations are expected to drop 50 per cent over the next five decades, mainly due to climate-related habitat loss.
__________________________________________________ _____

7 - Africa

ISSUE: Drought and desertification have displaced millions of people over the past 25 years, leading to malnutrition, disease and emigration.

FORECAST: A panel of U.S. military advisors warns that economic collapse and mass migration will further destabilize Africa, which supplies 12 per cent of the world¹s oil and 20 per cent of net oil imports to the U.S.
__________________________________________________ _____

8 - Nepal

ISSUE: Glacier ice in the Himalayan Mountains is retreating by up to 30 metres per year, scientists say. Average air temperature has increased by 1 C in the Himalayas in the past 30 years, well ahead of the global average of 0.6 C and the higher you go the faster it is warming.

FORECAST: The report says that nearly all the world¹s glaciers would melt completely if the average atmospheric temperature goes up 4 C, leaving glacier-fed rivers and the agriculture they support with no source of water.
__________________________________________________ _____

9 - China

ISSUE: The People¹s Republic will overtake the United States as the world¹s biggest producer of carbon dioxide, possibly by the end of the year, according to the International Energy Agency. Each month, China opens seven new coal-fired power plants, which are prodigious producers of the greenhouse gas.

FORECAST: China is warming up faster than nearly any other country and, by 2020, the average temperature in China will increase by up to 2.1C, causing more droughts in northern and western China and more floods in the east, according to the National Climate Assessment Report.
__________________________________________________ _____

10 - Great Barrier Reef

ISSUE: High water temperatures are causing coral in the 2,100-kilometre agglomeration of 2,900 reefs to bleach, die and crumble, says scientists. An ocean heat map created by the Australian Institute of Marine Science found the warmest year ever for the reef came in 2002. They believe that extreme tides and reduced salinity may also be factors in the degradation of the coral.

FORECAST: IUCN-World Conservation Union estimates that 20 percent of the world¹s coral reefs have already been wrecked. A further 50 percent are endangered.
__________________________________________________ _____

11 - Australia

ISSUE: A six-year drought has brought the nation to the verge of a major food crisis, as there is not enough water to allow farmers in the Murray-Darling Basin to irrigate their crops.

FORECAST: Rising temperatures and changing rainfall patterns could lead to crop failure in the one million square kilometre region, which contains more than 70 per cent of Australia¹s irrigated crops and nearly all of its grape production.
__________________________________________________ _____

12 - Venice

ISSUE: Venice is sinking. Sea levels at Venice have risen 23 cm over the past 100 years and eight of the ten highest tides recorded at Venice during that period have occurred since 1960.

FORECAST: The report projects that the city, spread over 118 islands, will be flooded daily by 2100 assuming a predicted net altitude loss of 54 cm. And in England, rising tides in the Thames are predicted to swamp the Tower of London, the Palace of Westminster and the National Maritime Museum at Greenwich.
__________________________________________________ ___

And this doesn't even get into the recent scorching heatwave in the Mediterranean (Greece in particular), the unprecedented flooding in northern England (including Sheffield), the recent flooding in Texas, or the severe drought conditions forecast for the American mid-West.

My experience is that people will believe whatever they want to - right up until the moment it's too late. It's commonly known as the Boiling Frog Syndrome.

AFBLUE

I wonder what the most likely cause of global warming could be? A bunch of pions on earth, or a Big Giant Fireball in the sky that is increasing it's radiation output.
http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...ut_030320.html

The sun's output increases and the earth get's hotter? Duh!

Hollywood_North GT

Umm >>

One component... Then there's this >>

So they don't know yet how much - if at all - the Sun's activity is responsible for global warming. I'm inclined to believe there is probably indeed some correlation there, but remember, too, as CO2 levels continue to rise in the atmosphere - as the Sun gets "warmer" - that will mean we will be trapping even more of the Sun's heat. So we could end up with a two-fold problem, one which we can have some effect upon, the other (the Sun) which we have no control over.

Knight Rider

can we stop talking about global warming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!