Ok started a new thread because I kinda got another one off track a bit so here's the deal we all know the next gen Mustang is gonna have some healthy new competiton

So far the players are

Chevy Camaro- a car with a loyal fanbase and lots of hype so far we have heard that it will have IRS and a top notch global platform. With Chevy having the oppertunity to dip into the Corvette parts bin the possabilities are vast

Challenger as retro as the current Mustang what i know of so far is its gonna be impossible to get one for the first model year but base V8s and 6s will make it into the pipeline by the 2nd model year

GTO ???
Rumors suggest that insted of a firebird (camaro clone) Pontiac will make an all new retro GTO to remedy the cold sales of the last rebirth

anyone have any other insight to future musclecars returning in the coming years?

anyone care to shed light on some of the above vehicals???

 

I think the competetors are too late. they all planned to out muscle the mustang with 6L+ engines and now the mustang will likly be more efficent with its 4.6 or 5.0 so i think this will effect how well they do agaisnst the stang and should favor our favorite pony car.

 

I agree with Knight--a day late and a dollar short. The Camaro might dip into the Corvette parts bin, but that parts bin will include smaller V8's (See Motor Trend's article about the C7 being put on hold).

BTW, Bob Lutz has already announced that GM is scrapping the RWD GTO and Impala due to the new CAFE mandate. GTO, Impala Dead

Chrysler has decided the hemi doesn't play well with the new CAFE standards and won't factor into future development plans, (and what does that say about the future of the Challenger SRT8?) - Autoblog


Stripping the Camaro and Challenger of their larger V8's, negating their horsepower advantage over the current Mustang 4.6, puts the newcomers in the tough position of competing against a smaller, lighter, less expensive vehicle. And while GM and Chrysler both expressed a desire to pursue a more fuel efficient, turbo-driven V6, guess which company already has one ready for production?

 

that's proably the G8.

 

Sorry but I got burned out on this over on the other thread.

I don't see the Challenger as having any impact on the Mustang. It will appeal mainly to the MoPar loyalests who would never buy a Mustang but will spend the $$ on the much higher priced Challenger. Since the Challenger hasn't been around in 35 years there is no loyal base for the model. I don't think it will stick around more than a few years as it will not have the sales volume to justify keeping it in production. The Challenger will be a money pit for Cerbrus who is more concerned with surviving right now.

The Camaro will do better as it has a much larger base of loyal customers who have been waiting years to buy a new Camaro. Again most of these customers would never buy a Mustang, so impact on the Mustang will be minimal. The real Camaro - Mustang war will once again be fought on the V6 model battlefront, a battle that the Mustang has handly won in the past.

 

Maybe, though I think maybe 97GT03SVT was referring to the rumors mid-2007 about resurrecting the GTO. Bob Lutz had been asked about a Firebird, by some screaming-chicken fans, since the Camaro was in the works. Lutz replied that GM had no plans to put a Camaro-clone in any of its Division's showrooms. He did however suggest that the Commodore platform might be used to create a new GTO for Pontiac.


I think that was June--maybe July of 2007. But recently (Jan 20th, 2008) Lutz said it was a no-go.

 

I disagree....I am a Huge blue oval and Mustang fanatic(look at my signature) but that Challenger is just plain sexy...and if Ford follows that Ugly Italian design with the shetland pony interior then I will be swayed even more toward the Challenger. However I don't buy new cars...I'll let someone else take the initial hit and I'll buy a nice clean used one later as I am not one of the "gotta have it now" types...I have other toys to keep me occupied. The Challenger not being around for 35 years will have no affect on who wants one...it Looks so much like the old ones that it will sell itself for the most part. I know a number of my friends who are Mustang guys who feel the same as I do. Then if Mopar fails it will just become an instant collectible.

 

That sure won't help the Challenger to succeed.

If they do become "instant classics" you won't be buying one on the cheap either.

Don't forget the Challenger will be huge, heavy and high priced. Not quite a formula for success in the 2009 auto market.

What has kept the Mustang alive for 43 years has been the 6 cyl models and their low entry price.

 

I wouldn't say vast, powertrains and brakes are the obvious parts, but little else is usable between the two, I really doubt you will be seeing a F5 equipped with the LS9 and the ZR1's carbon brakes (the brakes alone probably add 10k or so to the price of the ZR1)

 

Which old ones? Neither previous versions of the Challenger sold enough to make a splash in the market. The 70-74 never was a volume seller. Its five year run was marked by lack-luster sales peaking in its very first year at 80K units and if memory serves me correct, less than 165,000 units were sold during its entire 5-year run--less than the total Mustangs sold for the 2006 model year.

The second iteration of Challenger (78-83) was a re-badged Mitsubishi Galant--its claim to fame was a pretty strong (for its size) 2.6L I4. This was not a particularly memorable car (and not much of a collectible).

If MOPAR fails? It would appear that the 3rd run of the Challenger is already on shakey ground. Chrysler's announcement that the hemi has no future means the SRT8 version may be one-and-done. Without the hemi the 3900-4100 lb Challenger has a lot less ammunition to compete with the 3450-lb Mustang GT. And what V6 does Chrysler have to make the 2-ton Challenger an attractive alternative to a 3345-lb Mustang with a 265-hp D35?

 

I am one of Paul's friends (sorry Paul) that doesn't like the Challenger (I am not a big fan of the current Mustang). I think the Challenger will be a "flash in the pan", of course the Mopar faithful will buy them.

P.S. Paul I don't think Ford will use the Apolusa interior and I like the front of the "Italian Stallion", but not much else!!

 

I agree. If Chrysler does deliver the SRT-8 Challenger, it will have a very short production life makeing it a collectable for the fortunate few who get one - can anyone say ADM?

However, beyond the SRT-8, the Challenger will not last in the market.

Also, I just read a rumor that GM is planning on a 5 year product life for the Camaro in its current form.

 

V10, I agree with your assessment on the Challenger - it will be short lived, just like the Thunderbird. It will make a huge initial splash and fade away.

On the Camaro, it will survive longer than the Challenger but unless Chevy can develop a viable base model (something they were unable to do in the prior version) it too will not survive long term.

As much as we all love our fire breathing V8 Mustangs, it is the base model that pays the bills, a formula Ford has never forgotten.

 

Then it will become a 350hp front drive V6!



The base model may end up with the 2.0L EcoBoost which would help with CAFE (Ford sells over 100,000 Mustang V6's a year). Either the EB 2.0L or the NA 3.5 D35 V6 will be a good HP increase over the current V6!!

 

I agree, with a little curb weight reduction, an EB 2.0L would be a viable base engine opening up the possibility of an V6 SE model between the base and V8 powered GT.

 

I'm kinda surprised on the HEMI news. I thought the cylander deactivation of the current 5.7 HEMI gave it about the same mileage as the current 4.6. I know that the SRT8 HEMIs don't have the deactivation perhaps those are the only ones being cancelled? Vehix posts that the much heavier Charger acheives the same mileage as the 4.6. Though the Challenger will be heavy do ya think it will be as heavy as a Charger?

As far as Chevy using Vette motors in the Camaro gas might not stop them those LS2 motors are actually pretty good on gas, though they do require premium. I admit its a little more far off than I thought on the highway but I know my friend gets over 30mpg highway with his 05 vette i guess weight makes a big difference

ok I got some stats from vehix for 06' Model cars and gas mileage on all three motors are very close so check it out

06 Mustang GT 06 GTO 06 Charger
17/ 25 16/ 21 17/25

 

I think to compete with that GM could use the turbo 4 in the Cobalt it too has impressive power and fuel economy. I know i'm getting a lot of crap for this but I feel the Camaro is gonna be a force to be reckoned with and I too am ga ga over the new Challenger, to be honest the Mustang is my least favorite of the three so far (I hope the 10' blows my mind)

I'm kinda excited to finally have choices again I've always owned Mustangs (87GT, 97GT, 04GT, 03 Cobra) but I always liked to check out the competiton and I was very close to buying an 05' GTO on rebate ridicule the car if you like but I think its a great touring coupe with Vette power and BMW refinement ive also came close to buying a couple LS1 F bodies this next gen may be just the one to make the switch if I cant get a new SVT at MSRP

 

I agree as well. The Mustang and Camaro have a very loyal fan base and it will kept them selling. The Challenger on the other hand will have a much older crowd. Those owners will probably keep them garaged and bring them out to shows and probably won't mod them at all. Same thing happened to the Thunderbird.

And you're right, the base Mustang pays the bills. I see the 3.5 V6 staying until the global RWD platform is ready, then it might get the Ecoboost I4.

 

If you to read the link to Autoblog I posted on the hemi: The statement from Chrysler said the hemi engine did not play a part in future product development. Chrysler has already cut back production. The hemi is an older design--one which does not easily adapt some of the fuel saving techniques of their newer engines. According to the Autoblog article it does not burn as clean and getting the motor to meet more stringent emissions requirements adds complexity (read that costs), so Chrysler plans to shift their focus to better performing V6's.

 

This is true but there lies the problem.....many people like me refuse to buy the new cars...so why is that? Most vehicles have become overpriced and the smart buyer knows that they take a huge depreciation hit as soon as they drive off the lot. There is nothing wrong with a well cared for used car. The high prices and the way the car mfg's/dealers have everything set up is that they get people stuck in that "new every 2" mentality....it's rare for someone to buy a new car and keep it for the long term anymore because they are afraid of the big drop when it's 2 years old. I work hard for my money and the overpricing of new vehicles is what keeps me away...but that's a seperate problem.

While I don't normally buy new cars that doesn't mean that I won't....and I'll tell you that the Challenger is the FIRST car in a long time that has made me think about it.

...and there is ALWAYS a way to buy on the cheap regardless of the car....I have an '06 Magnum with under 1,000 miles on it that is paid for and I have less than half of what it is worth invested in it.....you just have to know where to look and be willing to do a little work sometimes.