Here's how easy it would be to give the 2010 350HP
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 10,648
Likes: 2,519
From: Carnegie, PA
I am just going off the official list from the EPA of cars that are subject to the tax and the Shelby GT isn't listed.
Not sure an explanation is required, neither are taxed according to the EPA. Do you have an official source that states it is taxed, i.e. either the EPA or IRS? Here are links to the official lists for 2007 and 2008.
http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/guzzler/420b07017.pdf
http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/guzzler/420b07018.pdf
Okay, rescinding my above comments, it appears that the Shelby GT is taxed, but for some unknown reason it is listed under Shelby as the manufacturer while the GT500 is listed under Ford.
Not sure an explanation is required, neither are taxed according to the EPA. Do you have an official source that states it is taxed, i.e. either the EPA or IRS? Here are links to the official lists for 2007 and 2008.
http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/guzzler/420b07017.pdf
http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/guzzler/420b07018.pdf
Okay, rescinding my above comments, it appears that the Shelby GT is taxed, but for some unknown reason it is listed under Shelby as the manufacturer while the GT500 is listed under Ford.
Legacy TMS Member
Joined: February 8, 2004
Posts: 3,399
Likes: 7
From: Cincinnati, OH
The Ford Racing cold air kit that was put on the Shelby GTs was originally co-engineered between Ford and Steeda. When that kit was used for the Shelby GT build-up, I understand there was no further engineering work done to bypass the failure. It was "just under the line". I can't find the exact post from Amy Boylan in this forum, but here is a reference to the testing.
If you look at the peak torque specs (330 ft-lb for the Shelby, 325 ft-lb for the Bullitt), one could surmise they "dialed it back" a bit in order to pass the EPA tests.
Cobra R Member
Joined: September 26, 2007
Posts: 1,931
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
I read an article in Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords and they ran tests on the Bullitt and even a regular GT and if I recall correctly they saw both get a 5-10HP boost with premium fuel. I know that the V6s in Hondas and Acuras also put out more power with premium fuel but don't require it.
Bullitt Member
Joined: December 21, 2006
Posts: 424
Likes: 0
I guess guys like you must have been the ones buying Mustang IIs! I'm sorry, but Ford let down a huge number of guys like me ( I do give a rats *** about horsepower) when they decided to revamp the Mustang and give it 15HP!?! I feel I have every right to criticize Ford's decision in making the 10 GT inferior to it's competition because I am a customer. I have bought and owned 4 Mustangs and other Fords. As a Ford customer I expect a car that can deliver at a low price. The gap in power between the Mustang and Camaro is far wider than the gap in price. Though I am not a fan of the Camaro you would be foolish to think it isn't a bargain for the money you pay for it... thus making it a true competitor.
By the way, I happen to like to Mustang II's (hatchbacks only)but was WAY too young to think about buying one. As much as they're hated, they were a five stop-gap that kept the service uninterrupted... Unlike the Camaro and Challenger. They've only been back a few months and pose no threat to the Mustang. You know better that.
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 10,648
Likes: 2,519
From: Carnegie, PA
Yes, it is, but I can confirm that the Bullitt tune was done by Ford to take into account the gearing, the fuel economy standards, and fuel octane (whether regular or premium). This was from the Mustang Chief Engineer as part of the S197 Bullitt pre-launch activities in which I was fortunate to particpate.
The Ford Racing cold air kit that was put on the Shelby GTs was originally co-engineered between Ford and Steeda. When that kit was used for the Shelby GT build-up, I understand there was no further engineering work done to bypass the failure. It was "just under the line". I can't find the exact post from Amy Boylan in this forum, but here is a reference to the testing.
If you look at the peak torque specs (330 ft-lb for the Shelby, 325 ft-lb for the Bullitt), one could surmise they "dialed it back" a bit in order to pass the EPA tests.
The Ford Racing cold air kit that was put on the Shelby GTs was originally co-engineered between Ford and Steeda. When that kit was used for the Shelby GT build-up, I understand there was no further engineering work done to bypass the failure. It was "just under the line". I can't find the exact post from Amy Boylan in this forum, but here is a reference to the testing.
If you look at the peak torque specs (330 ft-lb for the Shelby, 325 ft-lb for the Bullitt), one could surmise they "dialed it back" a bit in order to pass the EPA tests.
That being said, I wonder if my Bamachips 93 octane tunes, would either meet EPA fuel economy standards, or would they also fail as well.
Cobra Member
Joined: March 3, 2007
Posts: 1,299
Likes: 1
From: North carolina
I disagree, the Mustang is a fun car but it's not what keeps Ford in business (hence the reason why it has nearly been axed a few times). I think up until recently the F150 was the single most important vehicle in Ford's arsenal. Even today I think volume sales cars like the Fusion and Focus are more important to Ford's future than the Mustang.
but without the mustang im pretty sure ford would already be done for. sure the mustangs sale arent as great as F-150's or fusions or focus but without the V6 sales i doubt ford would be where they are right now.
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 10,648
Likes: 2,519
From: Carnegie, PA
Besides, the Mustang had nearly been axed just one time in it's entire 45 year history, and not several times as previously posted. Which was in 1989, when Ford had considered the Probe as Mustang's possible replacement.
At any rate, thank goodness that our fellow Mustang enthusiasts came to the rescue, and prevented Ford from ever making such a huge mistake.
Mach 1 Member
Joined: January 30, 2008
Posts: 721
Likes: 4
From: Pacific NW USA
What horsepower are they? If they exceed 315 basic physics is going to make it very hard. I seriously doubt any Bamachips 93 octane tune would meet EPA fuel economy standards under the gas guzzler tax.
You do realize it would not make any difference if your Bamachips tune could meet EPA fuel economy standards anyway, right?
You do realize it would not make any difference if your Bamachips tune could meet EPA fuel economy standards anyway, right?
Thanks to you, Tony we now have definite proof, it's the FRPP/cold air tune which was responsible for the Shelby GT. failing to meet E.P.A fuel economy standards.
That being said, I wonder if my Bamachips 93 octane tunes, would either meet EPA fuel economy standards, or would they also fail as well.
That being said, I wonder if my Bamachips 93 octane tunes, would either meet EPA fuel economy standards, or would they also fail as well.
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 10,648
Likes: 2,519
From: Carnegie, PA
What horsepower are they? If they exceed 315 basic physics is going to make it very hard. I seriously doubt any Bamachips 93 octane tune would meet EPA fuel economy standards under the gas guzzler tax.
You do realize it would not make any difference if your Bamachips tune could meet EPA fuel economy standards anyway, right?
You do realize it would not make any difference if your Bamachips tune could meet EPA fuel economy standards anyway, right?
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 10,648
Likes: 2,519
From: Carnegie, PA
Bullitt Member
Joined: December 21, 2006
Posts: 424
Likes: 0
Besides, the Mustang had nearly been axed just one time in it's entire 45 year history, and not several times as previously posted. Which was in 1989, when Ford had considered the Probe as Mustang's possible replacement.
At any rate, thank goodness that our fellow Mustang enthusiasts came to the rescue, and prevented Ford from ever making such a huge mistake.
At any rate, thank goodness that our fellow Mustang enthusiasts came to the rescue, and prevented Ford from ever making such a huge mistake.
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 10,648
Likes: 2,519
From: Carnegie, PA
Mach 1 Member
Joined: January 30, 2008
Posts: 721
Likes: 4
From: Pacific NW USA
Corvette requires premium and has ZERO Gas Guzzler Tax
It is the mileage, not the type of fuel required, the Corvette requires premium, but gets almost 30 on the highway, and has ZERO Gas Guzzler Tax.
BTW:
My 315 horsepower 2008 Bullitt AVERAGES over 27 MPG on the highway, and is rated 15 & 23 on the window sticker. Gas Guzzler Tax $0.
My 500 horsepower 2008 GT500 easily AVERAGES over 22 MPG on the highway, and is rated 14 & 20 on the window sticker. Gas Guzzler Tax $1,300.
Oh here are some shots of my mileage and a 2008 Shelby GT window sticker with $1000 Gas Guzzler Tax.
BTW:
My 315 horsepower 2008 Bullitt AVERAGES over 27 MPG on the highway, and is rated 15 & 23 on the window sticker. Gas Guzzler Tax $0.
My 500 horsepower 2008 GT500 easily AVERAGES over 22 MPG on the highway, and is rated 14 & 20 on the window sticker. Gas Guzzler Tax $1,300.
Oh here are some shots of my mileage and a 2008 Shelby GT window sticker with $1000 Gas Guzzler Tax.
Wrong ! The Shelby GT, does indeed have a gas guzzler tax. I ought to know, being that it was included on the window sticker I saw at my local Ford dealership.
And if it has nothing to do with what type of fuel is required, then you explain as to why the Shelby GT requires a gas guzzler tax, but yet the 08-09 Bullitt does not !
And if it has nothing to do with what type of fuel is required, then you explain as to why the Shelby GT requires a gas guzzler tax, but yet the 08-09 Bullitt does not !
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 10,648
Likes: 2,519
From: Carnegie, PA
I am just going off the official list from the EPA of cars that are subject to the tax and the Shelby GT isn't listed.
Not sure an explanation is required, neither are taxed according to the EPA. Do you have an official source that states it is taxed, i.e. either the EPA or IRS? Here are links to the official lists for 2007 and 2008.
http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/guzzler/420b07017.pdf
http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/guzzler/420b07018.pdf
Answering your question on why the Shelby is taxed and the Bullitt isn't, the Bullitt get better gas mileage. Shelby 15/22, Bullitt 15/23. The Shelby GT has the lowest tax that can be assessed, so it appears they just fell into that range. There are plenty of cars that require premium fuel but aren't taxed.
Okay, rescinding my above comments, it appears that the Shelby GT is taxed, but for some unknown reason it is listed under Shelby as the manufacturer while the GT500 is listed under Ford.
Not sure an explanation is required, neither are taxed according to the EPA. Do you have an official source that states it is taxed, i.e. either the EPA or IRS? Here are links to the official lists for 2007 and 2008.
http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/guzzler/420b07017.pdf
http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/guzzler/420b07018.pdf
Answering your question on why the Shelby is taxed and the Bullitt isn't, the Bullitt get better gas mileage. Shelby 15/22, Bullitt 15/23. The Shelby GT has the lowest tax that can be assessed, so it appears they just fell into that range. There are plenty of cars that require premium fuel but aren't taxed.
Okay, rescinding my above comments, it appears that the Shelby GT is taxed, but for some unknown reason it is listed under Shelby as the manufacturer while the GT500 is listed under Ford.
SUPERCHARGED RED ROCKET ------------------Master-Moderator
Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 10,648
Likes: 2,519
From: Carnegie, PA
It is the mileage, not the type of fuel required, the Corvette requires premium, but gets almost 30 on the highway, and has ZERO Gas Guzzler Tax.
BTW:
My 315 horsepower 2008 Bullitt AVERAGES over 27 MPG on the highway, and is rated 15 & 23 on the window sticker. Gas Guzzler Tax $0.
My 500 horsepower 2008 GT500 easily AVERAGES over 22 MPG on the highway, and is rated 14 & 20 on the window sticker. Gas Guzzler Tax $1,300.
Oh here are some shots of my mileage and a 2008 Shelby GT window sticker with $1000 Gas Guzzler Tax.
BTW:
My 315 horsepower 2008 Bullitt AVERAGES over 27 MPG on the highway, and is rated 15 & 23 on the window sticker. Gas Guzzler Tax $0.
My 500 horsepower 2008 GT500 easily AVERAGES over 22 MPG on the highway, and is rated 14 & 20 on the window sticker. Gas Guzzler Tax $1,300.
Oh here are some shots of my mileage and a 2008 Shelby GT window sticker with $1000 Gas Guzzler Tax.
As my dealer charged:
$30,595-MSRP
$ 8,390-Shelby GT. PKG
$ 1,000-Gas Guzzler Tax
$39,985-Total MSRP
All I can say, is if you had shopped around a bit. Perhaps you could've saved yourself $9000.00