laserred38

Eh, I don't think that AM should be on the hook for the mounting costs, but it would have been nice if they offered to pay/split it with you. I've had one experience with AM; a few years ago I was going to order some replacement headlights from them. They listed two versions of the ones I was looking at, the black housing clear corner lights and the smoked clear corner lights, but at the time both pics were of the same black housing lights (obviously not smoked). I called them up to ask just how dark the smoked versions were, to see if I would be able to get away with them in CA. Let's just say the level of CS what I expected from an (at the time they were much smaller) up and coming online retailer, looking to be recognized in the worldwide Mustang community, was not up to snuff. The phone operator was rude, arrogant and didn't answer my question at all. So I didn't order from them, and never will, even if their prices are better than other places. I'd rather support small, local stores than deal with stuff like this.

That being said, it's common knowledge around here that the 2011 GT standard brakes are upsized. Even IF it was stated the wheels would fit, my gut instinct doesn't trust other people enough to believe they actually tried the wheels on a 2011. I'm sure AM just assumed that because the wheels fit on a 2010, they'd fit on a 2011...

Miserable

You should stand behind what you sell and I don't see how they didn't here. Check their return policy, it says mounted or used wheels are not returnable yet they still refunded his money. Most websites say to test fit wheels before mounting tires, it's a pretty common practice.

And if you get your oil changed somewhere and don't check your oil pressure gauge when you start your car, they should pay for the damage but you're an idiot for not double checking their work.

falhulk

Some of the replies on here are insane. If you buy wheels from a company that puts its reputation on the line with every order it should fit. You should never have to do a test fit. If the wheels are poor quality then they should not carry them. Either that or be prepared to help YOUR customers if they are harmed by the bad quality. You cant sell something you know has widely varying tolerances and not be responsible. The customers are going to assume they fit. The customer places trust in the company for the product and the knowledge of its application.

dnr427

I have to side with the OP on this one. I bought a set of 20" Magnum 500's from another vendor (but I'm sure it's the same wheel AM sells), ordered up some tires, then brought the wheels still in the boxes for mounting and balancing. I took them home, screwed them on, and they fit AS I EXPECTED THEM TO. You buy something from a vendor who specializes in Mustangs who lists a part as fitting, you should be safe to assume it will fit. Had I purchased a generic wheel like, say an American Racing Torque Thrust II, of course I would have test fit it before mounting tires. So what would AM have done had the OP purchased the wheel/tire combo as a set? They could have stepped up and offered something (although $170. seems awfully steep).

Yes, all these wheels are Chinese-made crap (now my wheels match my tranny!), but they look good, and unless you're going racing, are more than adequate for street duty. You shouldn't need to spring big bucks for top-quality aftermarket wheels for your daily driver. I'm still puzzled as to why they rubbed, and why the 18" wouldn't work. They must sell hundreds of these, and you would think if there was a problem, it wouldn't be unique to this particular car. I'm curious if another set would have rubbed as well, or if there's something funky with the brakes on this car.

shotzy

That is what I would have thought was fair at the very least. But since they haven't even responded to any for my emails. The whole ignore him and he will go away routine is the most frustrating thing about it.

Maybe they do. But there website does not. It is not like buying New rims is an everyday occurance. This is the first set of new rims I have ever purchased. So how would I be reasonably expected to know this?

falhulk

Your response is telling. You have done this before and have knowledge of the process. Your average person does not have that knowledge, Thats who it should be assumed is buying these wheels. If you sell the wheels and dont make it clear they require test fit or possible car modification then its your fault. If it appears to the customer they are just slip on and bolt, why does he have any responsibility?

jlmounce

Like you've I've owned many mustangs. In fact my 2011 is my fifth mustang. Among them there were all different and a mustang may be a mustang, but it's manufactured on a line as quickly as possible.

When it comes to wheels you have to check. Take the IRS cobras for instance. Some people (like myself on my 99 Cobra) could run 10.5" wheels with oversized tires all day long without rubbing issues.

On the other hand, many people have to replace or shave IRS bolts, and run spacers to get those same wheels to fit on their same car.

Heck talk to Sam Strano and he'll talk your ears off about wheel fitment on these cars. Do you think he can run a 295 series tire on the front of his race cars because he didn't go to the trouble of actually measuring? He'll then talk to you about how you can add about an inch worth of width to the rear wheels simply by going away from the panhard bar and properly center-locating the axle.

laserred38 is probably accurate in that the caliper for 2011 cars have changed and nothing in the manuals have stated so.

The fact that AM honored a return where there is no policy existing for them tells me they already went beyond what they needed to.

Ignorance is not, has not and never will be an acceptable defense to try and get money out of someone, a business or any other entity. The policies are stated and not hidden. It is not AM's fault that the purchaser didn't test mount of wheels. It's not AM's fault the purchaser didn't read the policies. If you're spending that amount of money, spend the 15 minutes to read up on what you're getting. There's droves of information on the net and on AM's site in general.

SteedaGus

A distributor who claims they have test fit the wheels they carry and they fit perfectly. So the customer in this thread had a perfectly legitimate right to expect and demand for them to fit the way they said they would. No need to test fit.

Nope. Companies that make their own wheels for the individual customer are companies like HRE, Fiske, Forgeline, and so on. They ask for measurements because they make wheels to customer specification, not vehicle specifications, and as individual runs, not mass production. Companies that make wheels for mass production make them based on vehicle spec for mass distribution.

Had he purchased a set of CUSTOM wheels then test fitting to make sure they were manufactured to the specific specs before mounting would have been reasonable. In this case he was completely entitled to expect the wheels to fit as advertised.

Oh and before you try and tell me I'm wrong too, I not only am the purchaser for our mass production wheels, but custom wheels like the HRE P40 Monoblok wheels on the Streetfighter series cars we build. So I have a pretty good idea on how wheel manufacturing works, and also what realistic customer expectations should be when buying wheels.

American Muscle did take them back, but in the end failed to meet the customers expectations which were that they would fit in the first place.

Miserable

good point. I think you learn things like this as you go through life and unfortunately, sometimes those lessons cost you money. I feel bad he's out the cash for sure but don't see how AM should pay for it. Their return policy on mounted wheels and a test fit warning should be clearer on the site though. I've seen it added on the wheel description of a lot of sites.

jlmounce

You're right, purchasing wheels is not an every day event. Which is precisely why this isn't something that you should impulse buy and why you should do the research for yourself.

Especially knowing that you have a brand new model year car that has been out only for a couple months. It's always possible that things may have changed in manufacturing. Parts get replaced or upgraded.

I do feel fo you, $170.00 is a decent bit of cash around the holidays. But asking a company to pay for something they never charged you for because you didn't do all of your research and due diligence isn't ethical or fair.

laserred38

It's true. Every single car is different. Your calipers MAY be a fraction of an inch off in their mounting or casting that caused them to rub. I'm running (albeit powdercoated black) OEM 10th Anniversary Cobra wheels on my 2000 V6. When I first mounted them, the driver's side front rubbed on the LCA at full lock. The right side didn't rub. The driver's side fender liner also rubs the tire on hard bumps. Passenger side doesn't. You just learn to deal with the mfg differences between cars.

It probably doesn't help that my car was smacked pretty hard in the right front by a Jeep Commander last year. I have a Kenny Brown STB on the front that is the beefiest STB I've ever seen. I guarantee it saved (for better or worse) my car from being totaled, because the struts actually mount TO the brace and it triangulates the whole front end from the strut towers and firewall. After the body shop checked the framerails, the car was within spec, but who knows how much tolerance there is for the car to be "within spec" or "drivable". Things may have been shifted over a fraction of the inch, which is causing my driver's side rubbing issues. So I threw on a set of .25" spacers from MM and called it a day. Not a big deal at all, but I can see why people wouldn't want to run spacers.

As much as I want to feel for the OP, the more I think about it, the more I see AM's side, even as I loathe their customer service from my experience. I work retail as well (ugh) and I understand those times when you just don't want to deal with BS. This isn't that big of a deal though. If a customer has to ASK for a favor, IMO, the retailer has already dropped the ball. It's fricken Christmas season for Christ's sake. Like I said, I don't think they HAVE to cover the costs, but they could've offered.

I'm sure 15 minutes with a file would've fixed it, but the bigger issues I see here is how many weights it took to balance that wheel! Sheesh. THAT is exactly why I wouldn't want to run those replica wheels on my car, daily driver or not.

jlmounce

No I totally agree with you. The customer had a realistic expectation that they would fit. They did not fit and AM offered a full refund with shipping of the product back to them. In my opinion that's as far as their obligation lies.

As a company that's sole existence is based on mustang modifications, you have an intimate knowledge of the cars and you also have the advantage of being one of Ford's technology share partners.

The manufacturers of the replica wheels do not. They make as many of them for as many different cars as possible as cheaply and as quickly as they can. This isn't new information about these wheels. It's why this doesn't surprise me at all. But to be calling AM out over something that isn't their fault, I just don't think it's right.

AM took the wheels back, paid to have them shipped and refunded in full according to the OP. Again it's just my opinion but I don't see that they have an obligation outside of that.

SteedaGus

Exactly, you can't expect every customer to have the same kind of knowledge about this sort of thing. I talk to people every day and there are plenty of people I talk to who may not know something that just seems totally basic to me and that everyone should just know, but its simply not that way. The customer relies on us, the vendors, to guide them properly.

I agree with this too. The customer bought on the expectation of perfect fitment. He really didn't have any realistic reason to test fit them if he was assured already by the distributor claiming they do fit.

shotzy

Really I am being unethical for wanting a company to stand behind there claims? You sure you dont work for them? You sure do sound motivated.

And I would consider dealing with a company that has a reputation for being a mustang authority doing my due diligence. Its not like I went to Toyota to order my rims and they did not fit.

American muscle. Your aftermarket Mustang Authority.

That is there LOGO. They said it not me.

Miserable

Gus,

just wondering, would you guys refund the 170.00? Not ripping you, just wondering. You guys are awesome and I've never had a problem with any of your products or service. Just curious if you would be concerned with protecting yourself from someone claiming something like this (not accusing the OP) to get free cash.

BTW, bought my Steeda SFC from AM since they are local and items arrive next day. I test fit them as well

jlmounce

My name is Jason Mounce, google me a find out what I do. You may consider adding guitar to the search as it makes the results a little easier to find. My field is not car related at all.

And I think they've done good by you. They obviously have a no return policy on mounted wheels, however they gave you a full refund of the wheels you did purchase, as they should have.

I don't believe it's unfair to expect what you've already received.

SteedaGus

This is great question that goes into not only the heart of customer service but also my statement earlier on how the customer relies on the vendor. There is a flip side to that where the vendor relies a bit on the customer as well. Its a two way street.

If I told a customer my wheels clear his big Brembo brakes, (which they do) and they don't, I would be in a position that I would likely have to do this kind of return and refund. So yes it would have to be done in that case.

Now every situation is different, and I would try to investigate a bit to see if something else is amiss, like maybe its a Mustang with a custom Brembo kit not designed for a Mustang. (far fetched I know, but I am just using that as a "what if" scenario) Especially when I know I've sold thousands of these wheels on Brembo kits and know they fit because we test fit them and have a track record of selling them for that application. I would ask questions to try and get to the bottom of why they didn't fit.

If I wasnt told a detail like the "what if" detail I mentioned above I would technically not be liable to pay for shipping, BUT, the customer could also say that I should have asked the question, since the customer relies on the vendor to be guided in the interaction.

From a vendors point of view, I would expect a customer to tell me if he has a non standard brake configuration on his car as my "what if" scenario would suggest, as vendors rely on the customer to give us the right info to make the right product suggestions.

In the end though, its the customer who doesn't know everything the vendor knows, so you have to make a judgement call as to what to do.

What would most likely happen in this "what if" scenario is the wheels come back and someone else gets a deal on what we would classify as "scratch and dent" wheels that are probably perfect, unless the issue could be fixed with minor effort and the customer was willing to work with me on the solution.

I had a customer like this once with a custom brake set up in the rear of his car that was a big and a weird offset and actually didnt clear our huge 20x11 rear spyder wheel, we had assured him it would clear pretty much any big brake setup.

Fortunately he was easy to work with, and we determined he only needed 1/16" of an inch more clearance to fit. He actually machined the 1/16 out of the caliper and repainted it and everything was fine.

Had he not been willing to do this, we would have been taking the wheels back, since we assured him they would fit.

And by the way, thanks for supporting our product

Rather B.Blown

You've mentioned several times that these are cheap, crappy made wheels, that the customer should take that into consideration when buying, and that AM is not responsible because all they do is sell them, not make them.

I see it differently. AM is supposed to be the "Mustang Authority" and the best source for Mustang parts. If you are putting yourself out there like that, then a company that size should do more to make sure that what they are selling fits that moniker because the products you sell are a direct reflection of you as a company.

By carrying that product, you are endorsing it. If it is a cheap crappy product, then it makes it look like you are a cheap crappy company to associate yourself with and distribute that product.

That being said, I personally would have stuck the wheel on there to begin with. But only because I have learned from decades of experience that my luck sucks, and that if there is one piece out of 10,000 made that is faulty, I'll be the one to end up getting it. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "That's the first one we've ever seen do that, and we've been selling them for 20 years". **** the bad luck.

mystickeith50

coming from a business owners standpoint, like myself, it is 100% the responsibilty of the installing or selling companies problem to deal with these situations even if they dont produce the product. The products you sell should be things you WANT to be associated with your name. When I sell something and there is a problem, I deal with it and take care of the customer then if necessary I go back on the manufacturer for my losses. That is what good business is. I have never dealt with AM at all so I dont have an opinion on them either way, but I can tell you one thing, the way a business deals with customer service problems is paramount. To an extent all these mustang places are selling the same things; customer service is the difference. I had a problem with Magnaflow products installed by Evolution performance. Not only did Evo get me new stuff for free, they also paid out of their pocket to fix the second new product because there was still an issue with it(long story). The point is they stood behind the products they sell because that is what you do. AM should refund you for the wheels, pay to have the tires taken off, and ask you if there were any damages to your car related to THEIR problem.

mcate

This falls into the "lessons learned" folder, & it's unfortunate. The OP has definite legitimate gripes, but probably won't get the $170 back. AM did what most good businesses should do, & that's probably as far as it would go unless lawyers & courts got involved, & $170 isn't worth all that headache. My son is looking at buying some aftermarket rims from AM for his 2010, & I'm going to email him the link to this thread so he'll know the risks.