2010+ Info as far as we know
10/24/08, 09:09 AM
#342
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(A) Agreed.*
(B) I think these actually look pretty **** good.* They look like something from the J.C. Whitney catalog that you get free with every purchase of a set of checkerboard mudflaps with reflectors.
(C) What the hell does this even mean? How does an A/C vent look "agricultural?" Especially when the reason you give for the agricultural appearance doesn't even exist in the first place. Worst analogy ever. So they're rectangular, big deal. So were the A/C vents in the '67-'68 Mustang. IMO, it streamlines the look of the dash a great deal. Look at the interiors side by side. No comparison. The '05-'09 looks cheap, tacky and unrefined in every conceivable way. The '05-'09 dash looks like it came from a serious sportscar, the '10 dash clashes with its outer round A/C vents and the inner rectangular vents salvaged from a junkyard 1970s Citation. And after they put so much effort into improving it, too. Sad...
(D) From what I've seen, the hood bulge adds a ton of aggression to the look of the front end. Something the current hood does not.* It would look appropriate on an early WRX with a triplane rear wing, a skirts kit in a different color, and a fart can--or on Roseanne Barr's gut. But NOT on a Mustang!
(E) Obviously.
(F) If it's "still there," then nothing has changed. How is this a "minus?" It's a sin of omission--when something is wrong, FIX IT! It sucked on the 2005, it still sucked on the 2006, it sucked yet more on the 2007, it sucked even more on the 2008, it sucked waaay more on the 2009, and now it's going to suck indefinitely from 2010 until God knows when!
(G) Only if you order them.
(H) I didn't realize weight and price-fetched were directly proportionate to each other. Interesting. You missed the point--no one ever made a car better by making it heavier. What the **** do they pay designer's for if not to make the product better?
(I) Okay, then.
(J) Retained them, fine. Again what's changed? Where's the "minus" here? When something is wrong, it's merely laziness, apathy, or possibly negligence not to fix it. But when you are setting out to improve something (theoretically, I ASSUME the designer's set out to improve the S197 for 2010), then it is inexcusable to leave the glaring flaws in place, thereby overshadowing the improvements you DID make! The steering wheel dominates the driver's view of the dash panel--which can't be overlooked even if you want to overlook it. Why spend money on the dash when everyone is distracted by the porky steering wheel? Early Firebird Trans-Ams had better-looking steering wheels over three decades ago! Nixon was President when there were cars with better-looking steering wheels than the current Mustang--when is the effin' steering wheel designer gonna finally come out of his or her stupor and fix the damned thing?? Buy the rights from Pontiac if necessary, but FIX THE DAMNED THING! How hard can it be???
As for the "mondo-dork" antenna thing… why is everyone making such a big deal out of this? IT'S JUST A FREAKING ANTENNA!!! Exactly! So why the fudge haven't they put the damned thing in the glass like many other cars from the last century have done??
Anyway. Not trying to argue here. Just sayin'.
* = Subjective at best. We still haven't seen the "real deal" yet.
(B) I think these actually look pretty **** good.* They look like something from the J.C. Whitney catalog that you get free with every purchase of a set of checkerboard mudflaps with reflectors.
(C) What the hell does this even mean? How does an A/C vent look "agricultural?" Especially when the reason you give for the agricultural appearance doesn't even exist in the first place. Worst analogy ever. So they're rectangular, big deal. So were the A/C vents in the '67-'68 Mustang. IMO, it streamlines the look of the dash a great deal. Look at the interiors side by side. No comparison. The '05-'09 looks cheap, tacky and unrefined in every conceivable way. The '05-'09 dash looks like it came from a serious sportscar, the '10 dash clashes with its outer round A/C vents and the inner rectangular vents salvaged from a junkyard 1970s Citation. And after they put so much effort into improving it, too. Sad...
(D) From what I've seen, the hood bulge adds a ton of aggression to the look of the front end. Something the current hood does not.* It would look appropriate on an early WRX with a triplane rear wing, a skirts kit in a different color, and a fart can--or on Roseanne Barr's gut. But NOT on a Mustang!
(E) Obviously.
(F) If it's "still there," then nothing has changed. How is this a "minus?" It's a sin of omission--when something is wrong, FIX IT! It sucked on the 2005, it still sucked on the 2006, it sucked yet more on the 2007, it sucked even more on the 2008, it sucked waaay more on the 2009, and now it's going to suck indefinitely from 2010 until God knows when!
(G) Only if you order them.
(H) I didn't realize weight and price-fetched were directly proportionate to each other. Interesting. You missed the point--no one ever made a car better by making it heavier. What the **** do they pay designer's for if not to make the product better?
(I) Okay, then.
(J) Retained them, fine. Again what's changed? Where's the "minus" here? When something is wrong, it's merely laziness, apathy, or possibly negligence not to fix it. But when you are setting out to improve something (theoretically, I ASSUME the designer's set out to improve the S197 for 2010), then it is inexcusable to leave the glaring flaws in place, thereby overshadowing the improvements you DID make! The steering wheel dominates the driver's view of the dash panel--which can't be overlooked even if you want to overlook it. Why spend money on the dash when everyone is distracted by the porky steering wheel? Early Firebird Trans-Ams had better-looking steering wheels over three decades ago! Nixon was President when there were cars with better-looking steering wheels than the current Mustang--when is the effin' steering wheel designer gonna finally come out of his or her stupor and fix the damned thing?? Buy the rights from Pontiac if necessary, but FIX THE DAMNED THING! How hard can it be???
As for the "mondo-dork" antenna thing… why is everyone making such a big deal out of this? IT'S JUST A FREAKING ANTENNA!!! Exactly! So why the fudge haven't they put the damned thing in the glass like many other cars from the last century have done??
Anyway. Not trying to argue here. Just sayin'.
* = Subjective at best. We still haven't seen the "real deal" yet.
10/24/08, 09:13 AM
#344
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A) I like the rear end, not sure about the tailights, havent seen them in person yet.
B) Not sure about the turn signals, same reason as A)
C) I like the rectangular vents, very modern, looks retro like the '67, gives more room for the advanced center stack.
D) Hood looks way better than the plain and understyled hood on the '05 thru '09.
E) 5.0 pretty much guaranteed, it would be horrible if it didnt come in 2011.
F) Very reminiscient of the '69 Mach 1, but in pics looks way too big, going with current trends to make badges too huge.
G) Staying current with what consumers demand.
H) Maybe, maybe not. Hope not.
I) Agreed. But I dont want it to look like a cartoon either.
J) I like the styling, but yeah, thinner ones would look better.
K) There wasnt a K.
B) Not sure about the turn signals, same reason as A)
C) I like the rectangular vents, very modern, looks retro like the '67, gives more room for the advanced center stack.
D) Hood looks way better than the plain and understyled hood on the '05 thru '09.
E) 5.0 pretty much guaranteed, it would be horrible if it didnt come in 2011.
F) Very reminiscient of the '69 Mach 1, but in pics looks way too big, going with current trends to make badges too huge.
G) Staying current with what consumers demand.
H) Maybe, maybe not. Hope not.
I) Agreed. But I dont want it to look like a cartoon either.
J) I like the styling, but yeah, thinner ones would look better.
K) There wasnt a K.
Last edited by FordBlueHeart; 10/25/08 at 07:51 AM.
10/24/08, 09:15 AM
#345
Not only do I suggest forgetting the styling wilderness of those years--but I'd start the forgetting with the 1971s--bloated whales on the original '64-and-a-half wheelbase stretched only one inch to accommodate more overhang than Dolly Parton! Then came the cutesy '74s (choke, gasp!). '79 brought us the drabbest Mustangs of all time, the (shudder!) Foxes. Eventually, they gave way to the two-door Taurus bars of soap with C-scoops and shoulder creases on each side (omigod!). Finally, some light could be seen at the end of a long, dark tunnel when the "New Edge" Mustangs appeared, but they were screwed up by sporting puckered a**holes for grilles--an over-all improvement nonetheless...
Oh well . . . . that's is why everyone is entitled to his or her opinion.
10/24/08, 11:07 AM
#346
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BUT, the Mustang is the biggest genuine hit Ford has had since the '32 Deuce, and I had just turned sixteen when the very first ever Mustangs hit the dealerships.
I care about these cars!
I don't want to see Ford screw this up--more gadgetry, more electronics, more "convenience items", "more comfortable this" and "more plush that" is what you got when you traded your Oldsmobile for a newer model Oldsmobile--and where the **** did that get Oldsmobile, eh? All this crap is technically "improvements" and "refinements", but it makes sh**ty peformance vehicles! If I wanted a Grand Marquis, I'd shop Mercury...
Give us a clean, honest Mustang like the '65 Mustang GT fastback high-performance 289 bolted up to a four-in-the-floor. Or a '67 Mustang GT fastback. Or a '69 Mustang GT sportroof. Or a clean, honest S197 fastback from '05 thru '09! I'll even go lenient here and allow a glassback S197!
But the 2010 has replaced honesty with "fashionry"--items that are "all the rage" amongst the yuppies down in the subdivision, but stuff you'd rip out and **** on once you got serious about cuttin' seconds off the laptimes and ETs...People who want their vehicles to have more gimmicks than a cellphone should be driving some pale-metallic four-door automatic from Asia...I hope they lost their ***** in the stock market.
Greg "Eights" Ates
10/24/08, 11:16 AM
#347
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zzcoop: Coop, that mix of round and rectangular A/C vents didn't look good then--especially with all the round gauges. They did a terrific job in '05 with the four round gauges, and I have never read an editorial that didn't praise the round gauges (although there are some valid criticisms of the reflections caused by their chrome trim rings). I'll grant you that this interior beats the countoured metal butt pad on a Depression era Farmall...
Last edited by Eights; 10/24/08 at 11:17 AM.
10/24/08, 11:18 AM
#348
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(Regarding your Evil_Capri reply)
Most of this stuff is optional, y'know. As technology develops, so do the options. Even in the '60s they had options that I'm sure the "Eights" of the day thought amounted to nothing more than sissy pansy bulls#!t.
And bear in mind that not all of us want or need all that gadgetry. I know I sure don't.
Most of this stuff is optional, y'know. As technology develops, so do the options. Even in the '60s they had options that I'm sure the "Eights" of the day thought amounted to nothing more than sissy pansy bulls#!t.
And bear in mind that not all of us want or need all that gadgetry. I know I sure don't.
Last edited by zzcoop; 10/24/08 at 11:20 AM.
10/24/08, 11:41 AM
#349
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zzcoop: Coop, it's not arguing, Buddy--it's a genuine effort to wake people up! Back in the day, the first Mustang was small, light, crisp, and it kicked serious ****. It also sold 1,350,000 units by its second anniversary as a result.
God how I wish we had a chart of the gradual increase of GVW in Mustangs from '64-and-a-half through 1973! The '71s were Torinos squeezed onto Mustang chasses and sent lumbering & wallowing out the factory doors. You could hear the oinking all the way to Mexico.
This crap is about to happen again--taking the old Detroit attitude of piling on the frills and upping the base price (and the GVW) every couple of model years. Note that the resurrected Challenger and resurrected Camaro weigh a lot more than their extinct ancestors, too. 'Must be something in Detroit's water supply...
If you see the new Mustang, and you think it's an improvement over the clean, crisp, honest 2005--2009, then Detroit Marketing execs have already slipped a pod under your bed while you slept and you're not you anymore...
Bodysnatchers. They're gaining on us...
Greg "I'm gonna sleep with the lights on and the assault rifle loaded" Ates
God how I wish we had a chart of the gradual increase of GVW in Mustangs from '64-and-a-half through 1973! The '71s were Torinos squeezed onto Mustang chasses and sent lumbering & wallowing out the factory doors. You could hear the oinking all the way to Mexico.
This crap is about to happen again--taking the old Detroit attitude of piling on the frills and upping the base price (and the GVW) every couple of model years. Note that the resurrected Challenger and resurrected Camaro weigh a lot more than their extinct ancestors, too. 'Must be something in Detroit's water supply...
If you see the new Mustang, and you think it's an improvement over the clean, crisp, honest 2005--2009, then Detroit Marketing execs have already slipped a pod under your bed while you slept and you're not you anymore...
Bodysnatchers. They're gaining on us...
Greg "I'm gonna sleep with the lights on and the assault rifle loaded" Ates
10/24/08, 11:49 AM
#350
Fairly one-sided objectivity don't you think? Too which you are certainly entitled. But just because you only seem to enjoy certain model years of the Mustang does not mean that those of us who enjoy all Mustang model years have been duped.
10/24/08, 11:59 AM
#351
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(Regarding your Evil_Capri reply)
Most of this stuff is optional, y'know. As technology develops, so do the options. Even in the '60s they had options that I'm sure the "Eights" of the day thought amounted to nothing more than sissy pansy bulls#!t.
And bear in mind that not all of us want or need all that gadgetry. I know I sure don't.
Most of this stuff is optional, y'know. As technology develops, so do the options. Even in the '60s they had options that I'm sure the "Eights" of the day thought amounted to nothing more than sissy pansy bulls#!t.
And bear in mind that not all of us want or need all that gadgetry. I know I sure don't.
We were fighting it then, and we're fighting automotive tackiness still today...
It's a dirty job, Coop, but somebody's gotta do it
Colonel Ates
10/24/08, 12:04 PM
#352
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Evil_Capri: I may have said that I'm great-looking, but I NEVER said I was objective...
10/24/08, 12:22 PM
#353
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A) I like the rear end, not sure about the tailights, havent seen them in person yet.
B) Not sure about the turn signals, same reason as A)
C) I like the rectangular vents, very modern, looks retro like the '67, gives more room for the advanced center stack.
D) Hood looks way better than the plain and understyled hood on the '05 thru '09.
E) 5.0 pretty much guaranteed, it would be horrible if it dint come in 2011.
F) Very reminiscient of the '69 Mach 1, but in pics looks way too big, going with current trends to make badges too huge.
G) Staying current with what consumers demand.
H) Maybe, maybe not. Hope not.
I) Agreed. But I dont want it to look like a cartoon either.
J) I like the styling, but yeah, thinner ones would look better.
K) There wasnt a K.
B) Not sure about the turn signals, same reason as A)
C) I like the rectangular vents, very modern, looks retro like the '67, gives more room for the advanced center stack.
D) Hood looks way better than the plain and understyled hood on the '05 thru '09.
E) 5.0 pretty much guaranteed, it would be horrible if it dint come in 2011.
F) Very reminiscient of the '69 Mach 1, but in pics looks way too big, going with current trends to make badges too huge.
G) Staying current with what consumers demand.
H) Maybe, maybe not. Hope not.
I) Agreed. But I dont want it to look like a cartoon either.
J) I like the styling, but yeah, thinner ones would look better.
K) There wasnt a K.
What the fudge were they thinking????
10/24/08, 12:30 PM
#354
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Maybe the black cladding will be next week's teaser! That way, the designers will be able to give us a pretentious, pseudo-philosophical paragraph or two detailing its origin.
10/24/08, 03:16 PM
#355
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Wow. Eights man, I understand that there are things that most of us don't like, but I don't recall you saying hardly ANYTHING positive about the refresh so far. Personally, yes, there are things I don't like about it as well, but it won't stop me from liking it over all. It's a Mustang. Pure and simple. Everything that lasts as long as the Mustang has gets its' ups & downs. Its' pros and cons. Its' times that we will remember forever and its' times that we just can't seem to wash out. The fact of the matter is, if people don't like it, they don't buy it. That's the freedom of percieved choice.
As much as I would like to see a light, crisp coupe kin to the '65, it's just not what MOST people want in a car now-a-days. Take me for example, as much as I LOVE the heritage the Mustang comes from, I also LOVE my gadgets and gismos. I'm a tech guy and a car guy. Why can't I have the power and beauty of a Mustang with the luxury and tech of an Audi or BMW? That way I don't have two car payments. It's simply, and I'm sure you understand, so no hard feelings, it's simply marketing to the masses. What most people want, we all are going to get. Democracy in the automotive world.
OTOH: FOUR VOTING DAYS LEFT!!!
As much as I would like to see a light, crisp coupe kin to the '65, it's just not what MOST people want in a car now-a-days. Take me for example, as much as I LOVE the heritage the Mustang comes from, I also LOVE my gadgets and gismos. I'm a tech guy and a car guy. Why can't I have the power and beauty of a Mustang with the luxury and tech of an Audi or BMW? That way I don't have two car payments. It's simply, and I'm sure you understand, so no hard feelings, it's simply marketing to the masses. What most people want, we all are going to get. Democracy in the automotive world.
OTOH: FOUR VOTING DAYS LEFT!!!
10/24/08, 04:47 PM
#356
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In another 40 years, gas burning muscle cars may not even be allowed on the road, which I suspect will severely curtail their desirability.
10/24/08, 06:13 PM
#357
THE RED FLASH ------ Master-Moderator
m05fastbackGT: Absolutely splendid posting! I have only two points of contention:
(1) "Nobody is suggesting to forget those 25 years of Mustang history between 79-04." Not only do I suggest forgetting the styling wilderness of those years--but I'd start the forgetting with the 1971s--bloated whales on the original '64-and-a-half wheelbase stretched only one inch to accommodate more overhang than Dolly Parton! Then came the cutesy '74s (choke, gasp!). '79 brought us the drabbest Mustangs of all time, the (shudder!) Foxes. Eventually, they gave way to the two-door Taurus bars of soap with C-scoops and shoulder creases on each side (omigod!). Finally, some light could be seen at the end of a long, dark tunnel when the "New Edge" Mustangs appeared, but they were screwed up by sporting puckered a**holes for grilles--an over-all improvement nonetheless...
(2) "And most of all, the 05-09 greenhouse was also heavily influenced, and inspired by the 99-04 models as well." Nope. The current roofline is pretty much a Xerox of the gorgeous roofline of the '65 and '66 Shelby G.T. 350s. Its silhouette may pretty much replicate the silhouette of the '99s--'04s, but THEY were essentially G.T. 350 rooflines without the classic fixed windows in the C-pillars of those early classics.
Great posting! A man with 20/20 in both eyes!
Your resident smart-***, Greg "Eights" Ates
(1) "Nobody is suggesting to forget those 25 years of Mustang history between 79-04." Not only do I suggest forgetting the styling wilderness of those years--but I'd start the forgetting with the 1971s--bloated whales on the original '64-and-a-half wheelbase stretched only one inch to accommodate more overhang than Dolly Parton! Then came the cutesy '74s (choke, gasp!). '79 brought us the drabbest Mustangs of all time, the (shudder!) Foxes. Eventually, they gave way to the two-door Taurus bars of soap with C-scoops and shoulder creases on each side (omigod!). Finally, some light could be seen at the end of a long, dark tunnel when the "New Edge" Mustangs appeared, but they were screwed up by sporting puckered a**holes for grilles--an over-all improvement nonetheless...
(2) "And most of all, the 05-09 greenhouse was also heavily influenced, and inspired by the 99-04 models as well." Nope. The current roofline is pretty much a Xerox of the gorgeous roofline of the '65 and '66 Shelby G.T. 350s. Its silhouette may pretty much replicate the silhouette of the '99s--'04s, but THEY were essentially G.T. 350 rooflines without the classic fixed windows in the C-pillars of those early classics.
Great posting! A man with 20/20 in both eyes!
Your resident smart-***, Greg "Eights" Ates
Greg, first of all. You can refer to me, by my actual first name ok lol. As I really don't mind at all.
And second, although the 05-09 greenhouse was both inspired and influenced by the gorgeous roofline of the '65 and '66 Shelby GT 350's. The actual curved shape of the roofline itself, along with it's lower/slanted windshield posts. Do indeed replicate the silhouette of the '99-'04 models. Where on the other hand, the windshield posts on the '65-'68 fastback models, were clearly shorter and were also slanted more upward/forward. Also, the roofline had an overall flatter curve as well.
Therefore, I must respectfully disagree with the current greenhouse, as being a Xerox copy of those gorgeous '65-'66 GT 350's.
IMHO, if you took the front and rear clips from the '99-'04 models, and then placed them upon the body of the current '05-'09 Mustang. This is exactly what the SN-95 would've looked like, as a fastback version.
Just think about that for a moment.
Last edited by m05fastbackGT; 10/24/08 at 06:27 PM.
10/24/08, 06:27 PM
#358
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I'll be like a Mad Max geriatric outlaw.
If I live another 40 years. (I finished my first 40 in the last millennium)
10/25/08, 07:54 AM
#359
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zzcoop: Coop, that mix of round and rectangular A/C vents didn't look good then--especially with all the round gauges. They did a terrific job in '05 with the four round gauges, and I have never read an editorial that didn't praise the round gauges (although there are some valid criticisms of the reflections caused by their chrome trim rings). I'll grant you that this interior beats the countoured metal butt pad on a Depression era Farmall...
10/25/08, 07:59 AM
#360
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