2010+ Info as far as we know
10/22/08, 10:45 AM
#322
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10/22/08, 11:11 AM
#323
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I perceive a lot of yesteryear logic in the responses to my last posting--well-meaning guys looking back on the past and projecting the values of the past and the experience of the past into the automotive marketplace of the future...are you guys actually just John McCain trying to fool us with multiple usernames???
Yes, people are making money on Shelbys--that's why cars are manufactured, after all. If nobody made money on 'em, nobody would go to the immense expense and hassle of building and marketing 'em--do you guys know what a pain in the third eye (Boomer may cruise by here at any time...) it is to run a vehicle manufacturing business? Yeah, it sucks--and it especially sucks right now...
Performance cars will be worth stupendous money down the road when all you can buy are vehicles with two-cylinder biodiesel R/C model airplane engines used to charge the batteries in your ugly POS on bicycle tires that's shorter than your office desk and half again as tall as it is wide, wheezing along with all the other lame little oversized roller skates with training wheels that are class sales leaders because no one sells anything else! The Toyota Putrid, the Buick Disgusting, the Ford Excuse, the Nissan .5 Z, the Chevy Wimp, the Dodge *****, the Lincoln Lacking, the Honda Dreadful, the Pontiac Mediocrity, yada yada yada. Starting at just $185,000 + Tax at a WalMart near you!
Everything costs too much money. I remember when you could buy a brand new full-race Cobra 427 SC certified for A Production sportscar racing in the SCCA for $9500 out the door at the Shelby factory in Riverside, CA. The "standard" Cobra 427 listed around $6500. What can you get for $6500 today? Or even $9500?
G.T. 500s once stickered for less than $5000, and before that G.T. 350s stickered around $4400-$4600. There were street G.T. 350s with 306 HP and there were G.T. 350Rs for competition with 350 HP. The vast bulk of them were the street G.T. 350s. Forty years makes a lot of difference--you can tell by my waist measurement and my hairline...
Using Ol' Shel's name in vain? I hardly think that having your name on the first 500 horsepower Mustang with a supercharged, intercooled, dual-injected, aluminum-headed, DOHC, 4-valved, variable-timed, Tremec 6060-equipped, 4-wheel-disc-braked-with-ABS, wide low-profile-tired, carbon-fiber-air-extractor-hooded, best-equipped-Mustang-ever-offered, starting at under $43,000 is takin' Ol' Shel's name in vain!!! There ain't no room in that startin' price to stash away a tidy sum in the pocket for Ol' Uncle Shel', that's for sure! Things just cost too damned much. And I ain't just talkin' tuner cars here...
Good luck in November, John. Oh, yeah--great choice on the First Airhead to be your running mate...
Greg "Eights" Ates
Yes, people are making money on Shelbys--that's why cars are manufactured, after all. If nobody made money on 'em, nobody would go to the immense expense and hassle of building and marketing 'em--do you guys know what a pain in the third eye (Boomer may cruise by here at any time...) it is to run a vehicle manufacturing business? Yeah, it sucks--and it especially sucks right now...
Performance cars will be worth stupendous money down the road when all you can buy are vehicles with two-cylinder biodiesel R/C model airplane engines used to charge the batteries in your ugly POS on bicycle tires that's shorter than your office desk and half again as tall as it is wide, wheezing along with all the other lame little oversized roller skates with training wheels that are class sales leaders because no one sells anything else! The Toyota Putrid, the Buick Disgusting, the Ford Excuse, the Nissan .5 Z, the Chevy Wimp, the Dodge *****, the Lincoln Lacking, the Honda Dreadful, the Pontiac Mediocrity, yada yada yada. Starting at just $185,000 + Tax at a WalMart near you!
Everything costs too much money. I remember when you could buy a brand new full-race Cobra 427 SC certified for A Production sportscar racing in the SCCA for $9500 out the door at the Shelby factory in Riverside, CA. The "standard" Cobra 427 listed around $6500. What can you get for $6500 today? Or even $9500?
G.T. 500s once stickered for less than $5000, and before that G.T. 350s stickered around $4400-$4600. There were street G.T. 350s with 306 HP and there were G.T. 350Rs for competition with 350 HP. The vast bulk of them were the street G.T. 350s. Forty years makes a lot of difference--you can tell by my waist measurement and my hairline...
Using Ol' Shel's name in vain? I hardly think that having your name on the first 500 horsepower Mustang with a supercharged, intercooled, dual-injected, aluminum-headed, DOHC, 4-valved, variable-timed, Tremec 6060-equipped, 4-wheel-disc-braked-with-ABS, wide low-profile-tired, carbon-fiber-air-extractor-hooded, best-equipped-Mustang-ever-offered, starting at under $43,000 is takin' Ol' Shel's name in vain!!! There ain't no room in that startin' price to stash away a tidy sum in the pocket for Ol' Uncle Shel', that's for sure! Things just cost too damned much. And I ain't just talkin' tuner cars here...
Good luck in November, John. Oh, yeah--great choice on the First Airhead to be your running mate...
Greg "Eights" Ates
10/22/08, 02:30 PM
#324
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FordBlueHeart: True, but I'm talking 'bout the first year of the S197 GT500s--which is the first product of the re-unified Ford-Shelby relationship--and they listed for $40,930 + gas guzzler taxes at first.
Dealerships played havoc with this to the howls and protests of many--but those same howlers and protesters never howl and protest when a dealership has to discount many thousands off the MSRP to move vehicles that aren't selling...
The KR is a much improved GT500, and the Super Snake is a hugely improved GT500. They also have to cover the cost of shipment of a GT500 from Michigan to Nevada and then the cost of shipment from Nevada to the Shelby-authorized Ford dealerships. The labor and parts add greatly to the cost to produce these upgraded vehicles--check out the prices of similarly upgraded Mustangs from other tuners and you won't find any of them that come cheap. As I said, things cost too damned much. (Saved, to possibly be continued tomorrow...)
Greg "Eights" Ates
Dealerships played havoc with this to the howls and protests of many--but those same howlers and protesters never howl and protest when a dealership has to discount many thousands off the MSRP to move vehicles that aren't selling...
The KR is a much improved GT500, and the Super Snake is a hugely improved GT500. They also have to cover the cost of shipment of a GT500 from Michigan to Nevada and then the cost of shipment from Nevada to the Shelby-authorized Ford dealerships. The labor and parts add greatly to the cost to produce these upgraded vehicles--check out the prices of similarly upgraded Mustangs from other tuners and you won't find any of them that come cheap. As I said, things cost too damned much. (Saved, to possibly be continued tomorrow...)
Greg "Eights" Ates
Last edited by Eights; 10/23/08 at 08:05 AM.
10/22/08, 04:41 PM
#325
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To clearify, I'm NOT talking about the Invoice or MSRP for a GT500 as taking Shelby's name in "vain". I'm refering specifically to the dealers and salesmen and thirdparty manufacturers who make and sell cars and parts with Shelby's name on it. THAT is taking his name in vain just to earn a little cash. It degrades his effort and skill that made him famous. Why shouldn't he earn money now for his work then? He should. It's the others that I am refering too.
10/23/08, 08:43 AM
#326
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Where else are you gonna get that? Not from a four-door automatic resurrected Charger; or a stretched & widened 1971 Toyota Celica ST that Chevy wants to convince you is a resurrected Camaro; or a portly, overweight resurrected Challenger which never survived in the marketplace long enough to even get one restyling before it tanked over thirty years ago! Note that you don't see the adjective "resurrected" being necessary in front of the name "Mustang" because Mustangs have never been extinct even once! Too bad about all those imitations...
Greg "Eights" Ates
Last edited by Eights; 10/23/08 at 09:10 AM.
10/23/08, 09:08 AM
#327
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To clearify, I'm NOT talking about the Invoice or MSRP for a GT500 as taking Shelby's name in "vain". I'm refering specifically to the dealers and salesmen and thirdparty manufacturers who make and sell cars and parts with Shelby's name on it. THAT is taking his name in vain just to earn a little cash. It degrades his effort and skill that made him famous. Why shouldn't he earn money now for his work then? He should. It's the others that I am refering too.
Or so it seems to me, but I'm open to opinions to the contrary...
Greg "Eights" Ates
10/23/08, 09:20 AM
#328
Legacy TMS Member
There is no reason that the GT500 should have costed 9k more MSRP then the 2004 cobra. The GT only went up by a couple thousand, and the GT500 doesn't have any more mods to it then the 04 did, infact it has less. so it really doesn't add up, they obviously are paying shelby money and maybe even adding price just cause they knew people would pay it with his name on it.
If you mean it has less because of the rear suspension arrangement, then I could maybe see your point. However, going from a 4.6L to 5.4L supercharged V8 is not just a "mod".
Last edited by Tony Alonso; 10/23/08 at 09:30 AM.
10/23/08, 09:44 AM
#329
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FordBlueHeart: True, but I'm talking 'bout the first year of the S197 GT500s--which is the first product of the re-unified Ford-Shelby relationship--and they listed for $40,930 + gas guzzler taxes at first.
Dealerships played havoc with this to the howls and protests of many--but those same howlers and protesters never howl and protest when a dealership has to discount many thousands off the MSRP to move vehicles that aren't selling...
The KR is a much improved GT500, and the Super Snake is a hugely improved GT500. They also have to cover the cost of shipment of a GT500 from Michigan to Nevada and then the cost of shipment from Nevada to the Shelby-authorized Ford dealerships. The labor and parts add greatly to the cost to produce these upgraded vehicles--check out the prices of similarly upgraded Mustangs from other tuners and you won't find any of them that come cheap. As I said, things cost too damned much. (Saved, to possibly be continued tomorrow...)
Greg "Eights" Ates
Dealerships played havoc with this to the howls and protests of many--but those same howlers and protesters never howl and protest when a dealership has to discount many thousands off the MSRP to move vehicles that aren't selling...
The KR is a much improved GT500, and the Super Snake is a hugely improved GT500. They also have to cover the cost of shipment of a GT500 from Michigan to Nevada and then the cost of shipment from Nevada to the Shelby-authorized Ford dealerships. The labor and parts add greatly to the cost to produce these upgraded vehicles--check out the prices of similarly upgraded Mustangs from other tuners and you won't find any of them that come cheap. As I said, things cost too damned much. (Saved, to possibly be continued tomorrow...)
Greg "Eights" Ates
10/23/08, 09:52 AM
#330
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(A) screwed up the taillights
(B) added really dorky turnsignals in the headlight bezels
(C) dorked up the round center A/C vents with very agricultural rectangular vents--if Allis-Chalmers ever offers A/C in their tractors, these are the vents they'll be sure to use...
(D) added a riceboy hood bulge to a totally perfect hood (not as offensive as a non-functioning scoop, but it sucks nonetheless)
(E) you can't fetch more in the future with a 400 HP 5.0L V8 that your car ain't got--if we're lucky there might be a horspower increase in the 4.6L to Bullitt/Shelby GT levels in 2010, but only rumors that you'll get anything more in 2011 or later...
(F) the positively trailer-park-dumpster faux-gas-cap is still there--an improvement so effin' easy to make that they should make sopranos out of the designers who let that running sore continue to putrify the rear ends of Mustangs the world over...
(G) trashed up the simplicity of the car with the electronic distractions that are so trendy with the fashion set these days
(H) doubtless this car weighs more than the current car with identical equipment. Oh, such JOY!
(I) failed to correct the Mustang's most grievous performance shortcoming--wheelwells too small to allow really wide wheels with really wide tires (beyond 295s--waaaayyy beyond 295s)
(J) retained the fat steering wheel spokes. There are some attractive, thinner-spoked steering wheels on some other cars, why not on the Mustang?
But to their credit, Ford did:
(A) move the mondo-dork radio antenna to the passenger-side rear fender--a half-gluteal (Boomer is pounced to strke) measure at the very least...
(B) added the rear-fender kick-up that should have been there in 2005
You count up the pluses and minuses here--adding any of your own as you see fit--and I think it's pretty self-evident that the '05s--'09s will fetch more (probably much more) at Barrett Jackson down the road than will the '10s.
Greg "Eights" Ates
10/23/08, 10:03 AM
#331
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You mentioned carbon fiber hood and I thought KR thats all. The GT500 is quite a bit different from a regular GT. But I like the fact that I can add a poweradder and meet or beat it in power without the risk of devalueing it as great as the GT500 would be. There is no way in Hades that I could convince my fiance, the extra dough for a GT500.
Convince your fiancee to buy herself a GT500, and let you drive it!
Greg "Eights" Ates
Last edited by Eights; 10/23/08 at 10:19 AM.
10/23/08, 10:17 AM
#332
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I'd be looking to that engine and transmission as a significant part of the cost, plus the engineering work to strengthen the chassis.
If you mean it has less because of the rear suspension arrangement, then I could maybe see your point. However, going from a 4.6L to 5.4L supercharged V8 is not just a "mod".
If you mean it has less because of the rear suspension arrangement, then I could maybe see your point. However, going from a 4.6L to 5.4L supercharged V8 is not just a "mod".
If you get a parts catalog, I think you'll find that the unique parts that the GT500 has that are not used in any previous Mustang will cost well over $9,000--and that's likely to be the case even after you deduct the cost of the prior SVT Cobra's IRS assembly from the total cost of the unique parts in the GT500.
Greg "Eights" Ates
10/23/08, 10:21 AM
#333
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FordBlueHeart: I hear ya! I can't even convince myself that I'd cough up for a GT500--but to be totally fair the GT500 was never meant to sell to people in my financial situation. I'd rather buy an '05 Mustang GT and use the $$$ difference to build a killer built to exactly my standards, my tastes, and my bankroll. And there's nothing wrong with that!
Convince your fiancee to buy herself a GT500, and let you drive it!
Greg "Eights" Ates
Convince your fiancee to buy herself a GT500, and let you drive it!
Greg "Eights" Ates
Two weeks ago we drove 350 miles to Shipshewana Indiana and she did ok except by Grand Rapids on the expressway. I live ten miles from where she works, thats too far. Oh well, it will get better, but I know its tough on her. I dont have to worry about her freaking out when I drive the mustang, she wont be with me when I punch it!
10/23/08, 10:35 AM
#334
Shelby GT350 Member
DarkCandy08GT: Truthfully, I don't. They took a clean, crisp, evocative S197 and:
(A) screwed up the taillights
(B) added really dorky turnsignals in the headlight bezels
(C) dorked up the round center A/C vents with very agricultural rectangular vents--if Allis-Chalmers ever offers A/C in their tractors, these are the vents they'll be sure to use...
(D) added a riceboy hood bulge to a totally perfect hood (not as offensive as a non-functioning scoop, but it sucks nonetheless)
(E) you can't fetch more in the future with a 400 HP 5.0L V8 that your car ain't got--if we're lucky there might be a horspower increase in the 4.6L to Bullitt/Shelby GT levels in 2010, but only rumors that you'll get anything more in 2011 or later...
(F) the positively trailer-park-dumpster faux-gas-cap is still there--an improvement so effin' easy to make that they should make sopranos out of the designers who let that running sore continue to putrify the rear ends of Mustangs the world over...
(G) trashed up the simplicity of the car with the electronic distractions that are so trendy with the fashion set these days
(H) doubtless this car weighs more than the current car with identical equipment. Oh, such JOY!
(I) failed to correct the Mustang's most grievous performance shortcoming--wheelwells too small to allow really wide wheels with really wide tires (beyond 295s--waaaayyy beyond 295s)
(J) retained the fat steering wheel spokes. There are some attractive, thinner-spoked steering wheels on some other cars, why not on the Mustang?
But to their credit, Ford did:
(A) move the mondo-dork radio antenna to the passenger-side rear fender--a half-gluteal (Boomer is pounced to strke) measure at the very least...
(B) added the rear-fender kick-up that should have been there in 2005
You count up the pluses and minuses here--adding any of your own as you see fit--and I think it's pretty self-evident that the '05s--'09s will fetch more (probably much more) at Barrett Jackson down the road than will the '10s.
Greg "Eights" Ates
(A) screwed up the taillights
(B) added really dorky turnsignals in the headlight bezels
(C) dorked up the round center A/C vents with very agricultural rectangular vents--if Allis-Chalmers ever offers A/C in their tractors, these are the vents they'll be sure to use...
(D) added a riceboy hood bulge to a totally perfect hood (not as offensive as a non-functioning scoop, but it sucks nonetheless)
(E) you can't fetch more in the future with a 400 HP 5.0L V8 that your car ain't got--if we're lucky there might be a horspower increase in the 4.6L to Bullitt/Shelby GT levels in 2010, but only rumors that you'll get anything more in 2011 or later...
(F) the positively trailer-park-dumpster faux-gas-cap is still there--an improvement so effin' easy to make that they should make sopranos out of the designers who let that running sore continue to putrify the rear ends of Mustangs the world over...
(G) trashed up the simplicity of the car with the electronic distractions that are so trendy with the fashion set these days
(H) doubtless this car weighs more than the current car with identical equipment. Oh, such JOY!
(I) failed to correct the Mustang's most grievous performance shortcoming--wheelwells too small to allow really wide wheels with really wide tires (beyond 295s--waaaayyy beyond 295s)
(J) retained the fat steering wheel spokes. There are some attractive, thinner-spoked steering wheels on some other cars, why not on the Mustang?
But to their credit, Ford did:
(A) move the mondo-dork radio antenna to the passenger-side rear fender--a half-gluteal (Boomer is pounced to strke) measure at the very least...
(B) added the rear-fender kick-up that should have been there in 2005
You count up the pluses and minuses here--adding any of your own as you see fit--and I think it's pretty self-evident that the '05s--'09s will fetch more (probably much more) at Barrett Jackson down the road than will the '10s.
Greg "Eights" Ates
The only way i can see me trading in my Candy 08 GT is if the 5.0 really does come in 2011. Then it can be tempted.
Yes i have the non functional scoop and lame premuim wheels on mine. I wanted the Candy color and it was the only one they had in my area.
All i can say is that i enjoy your posts and you make this forum very intresting with your views.
10/23/08, 11:56 AM
#335
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DarkCandy08GT: Truthfully, I don't. They took a clean, crisp, evocative S197 and:
(A) screwed up the taillights
(B) added really dorky turnsignals in the headlight bezels
(C) dorked up the round center A/C vents with very agricultural rectangular vents--if Allis-Chalmers ever offers A/C in their tractors, these are the vents they'll be sure to use...
(D) added a riceboy hood bulge to a totally perfect hood (not as offensive as a non-functioning scoop, but it sucks nonetheless)
(E) you can't fetch more in the future with a 400 HP 5.0L V8 that your car ain't got--if we're lucky there might be a horspower increase in the 4.6L to Bullitt/Shelby GT levels in 2010, but only rumors that you'll get anything more in 2011 or later...
(F) the positively trailer-park-dumpster faux-gas-cap is still there--an improvement so effin' easy to make that they should make sopranos out of the designers who let that running sore continue to putrify the rear ends of Mustangs the world over...
(G) trashed up the simplicity of the car with the electronic distractions that are so trendy with the fashion set these days
(H) doubtless this car weighs more than the current car with identical equipment. Oh, such JOY!
(I) failed to correct the Mustang's most grievous performance shortcoming--wheelwells too small to allow really wide wheels with really wide tires (beyond 295s--waaaayyy beyond 295s)
(J) retained the fat steering wheel spokes. There are some attractive, thinner-spoked steering wheels on some other cars, why not on the Mustang?
But to their credit, Ford did:
(A) move the mondo-dork radio antenna to the passenger-side rear fender--a half-gluteal (Boomer is pounced to strke) measure at the very least...
(B) added the rear-fender kick-up that should have been there in 2005
You count up the pluses and minuses here--adding any of your own as you see fit--and I think it's pretty self-evident that the '05s--'09s will fetch more (probably much more) at Barrett Jackson down the road than will the '10s.
Greg "Eights" Ates
(A) screwed up the taillights
(B) added really dorky turnsignals in the headlight bezels
(C) dorked up the round center A/C vents with very agricultural rectangular vents--if Allis-Chalmers ever offers A/C in their tractors, these are the vents they'll be sure to use...
(D) added a riceboy hood bulge to a totally perfect hood (not as offensive as a non-functioning scoop, but it sucks nonetheless)
(E) you can't fetch more in the future with a 400 HP 5.0L V8 that your car ain't got--if we're lucky there might be a horspower increase in the 4.6L to Bullitt/Shelby GT levels in 2010, but only rumors that you'll get anything more in 2011 or later...
(F) the positively trailer-park-dumpster faux-gas-cap is still there--an improvement so effin' easy to make that they should make sopranos out of the designers who let that running sore continue to putrify the rear ends of Mustangs the world over...
(G) trashed up the simplicity of the car with the electronic distractions that are so trendy with the fashion set these days
(H) doubtless this car weighs more than the current car with identical equipment. Oh, such JOY!
(I) failed to correct the Mustang's most grievous performance shortcoming--wheelwells too small to allow really wide wheels with really wide tires (beyond 295s--waaaayyy beyond 295s)
(J) retained the fat steering wheel spokes. There are some attractive, thinner-spoked steering wheels on some other cars, why not on the Mustang?
But to their credit, Ford did:
(A) move the mondo-dork radio antenna to the passenger-side rear fender--a half-gluteal (Boomer is pounced to strke) measure at the very least...
(B) added the rear-fender kick-up that should have been there in 2005
You count up the pluses and minuses here--adding any of your own as you see fit--and I think it's pretty self-evident that the '05s--'09s will fetch more (probably much more) at Barrett Jackson down the road than will the '10s.
Greg "Eights" Ates
(B) I think these actually look pretty **** good.*
(C) What the hell does this even mean? How does an A/C vent look "agricultural?" Especially when the reason you give for the agricultural appearance doesn't even exist in the first place. Worst analogy ever. So they're rectangular, big deal. So were the A/C vents in the '67-'68 Mustang. IMO, it streamlines the look of the dash a great deal. Look at the interiors side by side. No comparison. The '05-'09 looks cheap, tacky and unrefined in every conceivable way.
(D) From what I've seen, the hood bulge adds a ton of aggression to the look of the front end. Something the current hood does not.*
(E) Obviously.
(F) If it's "still there," then nothing has changed. How is this a "minus?"
(G) Only if you order them.
(H) I didn't realize weight and price-fetched were directly proportionate to each other. Interesting.
(I) Okay, then.
(J) Retained them, fine. Again what's changed? Where's the "minus" here?
As for the "mondo-dork" antenna thing… why is everyone making such a big deal out of this? IT'S JUST A FREAKING ANTENNA!!!
Anyway. Not trying to argue here. Just sayin'.
* = Subjective at best. We still haven't seen the "real deal" yet.
Last edited by zzcoop; 10/23/08 at 02:25 PM.
10/23/08, 11:27 PM
#336
THE RED FLASH ------ Master-Moderator
I really don't know where your getting all this too many concessions to the 65-73 fans stuff from. Because it seems as though your emphasizing way too much upon the retro theme, without actually looking at the entire picture.
Although there's no denying the fact, that Ford took some of it's retro design cues from those 65-70 models. It also took design cues from the 99-04 models as well. For example, the fenderwells are without a doubt taken from the 04 models. And most of all, the 05-09 greenhouse was also heavily influenced, and inspired by the 99-04 models as well.
The bottom line, is the current Mustang, is a metamorphosis between modern and classic design. And not some full blown retro copy of just one particular model. As what Dodge did, when they resurrected the Challenger.
You talk about having too many concessions. Well Dodge is doing exactly just that, by marketing it's new Challenger towards their 70-74 fans. Are they not ?
As for the Challenger looking new when compared to the current Mustang is concerned. I couldn't disagree more, as it's overall appearance/shape has changed very little from the original 70-74 models.
So once again, how does this car really look so new when compared to the 05-09 Mustang ? The only real difference I can tell between the old car over the new one, is the new version stands taller along with having a much longer wheelbase, and is also wide as a **** barge lol.
Now for cars like the 5.0 LX, SVT Cobra and SVO, who also have their fans. Nobody is suggesting to forget those 25 years of Mustang history between 79-04.
As a matter of fact, if your really think about it. Aspects of the current 05-09 Mustang, such as the greenhouse, and fenderwells. Did indeed evolve from the 99-04 models.
That being said, I feel that Ford was 100% right on the money, by blending both modern and classic design together, and is also on the right track by continuing to evolve the current S-197 design !
Last edited by m05fastbackGT; 10/24/08 at 12:19 AM.
10/24/08, 01:12 AM
#337
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Your personal minuses only make them self evident to you. The 2010 will be a superior vehicle in every way, and almost certain to bring more money down the road.
10/24/08, 08:13 AM
#338
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I really don't know where your getting all this too many concessions to the 65-73 fans stuff from. Because it seems as though your emphasizing way too much upon the retro theme, without actually looking at the entire picture.
Although there's no denying the fact, that Ford took some of it's retro design cues from those 65-70 models. It also took design cues from the 99-04 models as well. For example, the fenderwells are without a doubt taken from the 04 models. And most of all, the 05-09 greenhouse was also heavily influenced, and inspired by the 99-04 models as well.
The bottom line, is the current Mustang, is a metamorphosis between modern and classic design. And not some full blown retro copy of just one particular model. As what Dodge did, when they resurrected the Challenger.
You talk about having too many concessions. Well Dodge is doing exactly just that, by marketing it's new Challenger towards their 70-74 fans. Are they not ?
As for the Challenger looking new when compared to the current Mustang is concerned. I couldn't disagree more, as it's overall appearance/shape has changed very little from the original 70-74 models.
So once again, how does this car really look so new when compared to the 05-09 Mustang ? The only real difference I can tell between the old car over the new one, is the new version stands taller along with having a much longer wheelbase, and is also wide as a **** barge lol.
Now for cars like the 5.0 LX, SVT Cobra and SVO, who also have their fans. Nobody is suggesting to forget those 25 years of Mustang history between 79-04.
As a matter of fact, if your really think about it. Aspects of the current 05-09 Mustang, such as the greenhouse, and fenderwells. Did indeed evolve from the 99-04 models.
That being said, I feel that Ford was 100% right on the money, by blending both modern and classic design together, and is also on the right track by continuing to evolve the current S-197 design !
Although there's no denying the fact, that Ford took some of it's retro design cues from those 65-70 models. It also took design cues from the 99-04 models as well. For example, the fenderwells are without a doubt taken from the 04 models. And most of all, the 05-09 greenhouse was also heavily influenced, and inspired by the 99-04 models as well.
The bottom line, is the current Mustang, is a metamorphosis between modern and classic design. And not some full blown retro copy of just one particular model. As what Dodge did, when they resurrected the Challenger.
You talk about having too many concessions. Well Dodge is doing exactly just that, by marketing it's new Challenger towards their 70-74 fans. Are they not ?
As for the Challenger looking new when compared to the current Mustang is concerned. I couldn't disagree more, as it's overall appearance/shape has changed very little from the original 70-74 models.
So once again, how does this car really look so new when compared to the 05-09 Mustang ? The only real difference I can tell between the old car over the new one, is the new version stands taller along with having a much longer wheelbase, and is also wide as a **** barge lol.
Now for cars like the 5.0 LX, SVT Cobra and SVO, who also have their fans. Nobody is suggesting to forget those 25 years of Mustang history between 79-04.
As a matter of fact, if your really think about it. Aspects of the current 05-09 Mustang, such as the greenhouse, and fenderwells. Did indeed evolve from the 99-04 models.
That being said, I feel that Ford was 100% right on the money, by blending both modern and classic design together, and is also on the right track by continuing to evolve the current S-197 design !
(1) "Nobody is suggesting to forget those 25 years of Mustang history between 79-04." Not only do I suggest forgetting the styling wilderness of those years--but I'd start the forgetting with the 1971s--bloated whales on the original '64-and-a-half wheelbase stretched only one inch to accommodate more overhang than Dolly Parton! Then came the cutesy '74s (choke, gasp!). '79 brought us the drabbest Mustangs of all time, the (shudder!) Foxes. Eventually, they gave way to the two-door Taurus bars of soap with C-scoops and shoulder creases on each side (omigod!). Finally, some light could be seen at the end of a long, dark tunnel when the "New Edge" Mustangs appeared, but they were screwed up by sporting puckered a**holes for grilles--an over-all improvement nonetheless...
(2) "And most of all, the 05-09 greenhouse was also heavily influenced, and inspired by the 99-04 models as well." Nope. The current roofline is pretty much a Xerox of the gorgeous roofline of the '65 and '66 Shelby G.T. 350s. Its silhouette may pretty much replicate the silhouette of the '99s--'04s, but THEY were essentially G.T. 350 rooflines without the classic fixed windows in the C-pillars of those early classics.
Great posting! A man with 20/20 in both eyes!
Your resident smart-***, Greg "Eights" Ates
10/24/08, 08:57 AM
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(A) Agreed.*
(B) I think these actually look pretty **** good.* They look like something from the J.C. Whitney catalog that you get free with every purchase of a set of checkerboard mudflaps with reflectors.
(C) What the hell does this even mean? How does an A/C vent look "agricultural?" Especially when the reason you give for the agricultural appearance doesn't even exist in the first place. Worst analogy ever. So they're rectangular, big deal. So were the A/C vents in the '67-'68 Mustang. IMO, it streamlines the look of the dash a great deal. Look at the interiors side by side. No comparison. The '05-'09 looks cheap, tacky and unrefined in every conceivable way. The '05-'09 dash looks like it came from a serious sportscar, the '10 dash clashes with its outer round A/C vents and the inner rectangular vents salvaged from a junkyard 1970s Citation. And after they put so much effort into improving it, too. Sad...
(D) From what I've seen, the hood bulge adds a ton of aggression to the look of the front end. Something the current hood does not.* It would look appropriate on an early WRX with a triplane rear wing, a skirts kit in a different color, and a fart can--or on Roseanne Barr's gut. But NOT on a Mustang!
(E) Obviously.
(F) If it's "still there," then nothing has changed. How is this a "minus?" It's a sin of omission--when something is wrong, FIX IT! It sucked on the 2005, it still sucked on the 2006, it sucked yet more on the 2007, it sucked even more on the 2008, it sucked waaay more on the 2009, and now it's going to suck indefinitely from 2010 until God knows when!
(G) Only if you order them.
(H) I didn't realize weight and price-fetched were directly proportionate to each other. Interesting. You missed the point--no one ever made a car better by making it heavier. What the **** do they pay designer's for if not to make the product better?
(I) Okay, then.
(J) Retained them, fine. Again what's changed? Where's the "minus" here? When something is wrong, it's merely laziness, apathy, or possibly negligence not to fix it. But when you are setting out to improve something (theoretically, I ASSUME the designer's set out to improve the S197 for 2010), then it is inexcusable to leave the glaring flaws in place, thereby overshadowing the improvements you DID make! The steering wheel dominates the driver's view of the dash panel--which can't be overlooked even if you want to overlook it. Why spend money on the dash when everyone is distracted by the porky steering wheel? Early Firebird Trans-Ams had better-looking steering wheels over three decades ago! Nixon was President when there were cars with better-looking steering wheels than the current Mustang--when is the effin' steering wheel designer gonna finally come out of his or her stupor and fix the damned thing?? Buy the rights from Pontiac if necessary, but FIX THE DAMNED THING! How hard can it be???
As for the "mondo-dork" antenna thing… why is everyone making such a big deal out of this? IT'S JUST A FREAKING ANTENNA!!! Exactly! So why the fudge haven't they put the damned thing in the glass like many other cars did back in the previous century??
Anyway. Not trying to argue here. Just sayin'.
* = Subjective at best. We still haven't seen the "real deal" yet.
(B) I think these actually look pretty **** good.* They look like something from the J.C. Whitney catalog that you get free with every purchase of a set of checkerboard mudflaps with reflectors.
(C) What the hell does this even mean? How does an A/C vent look "agricultural?" Especially when the reason you give for the agricultural appearance doesn't even exist in the first place. Worst analogy ever. So they're rectangular, big deal. So were the A/C vents in the '67-'68 Mustang. IMO, it streamlines the look of the dash a great deal. Look at the interiors side by side. No comparison. The '05-'09 looks cheap, tacky and unrefined in every conceivable way. The '05-'09 dash looks like it came from a serious sportscar, the '10 dash clashes with its outer round A/C vents and the inner rectangular vents salvaged from a junkyard 1970s Citation. And after they put so much effort into improving it, too. Sad...
(D) From what I've seen, the hood bulge adds a ton of aggression to the look of the front end. Something the current hood does not.* It would look appropriate on an early WRX with a triplane rear wing, a skirts kit in a different color, and a fart can--or on Roseanne Barr's gut. But NOT on a Mustang!
(E) Obviously.
(F) If it's "still there," then nothing has changed. How is this a "minus?" It's a sin of omission--when something is wrong, FIX IT! It sucked on the 2005, it still sucked on the 2006, it sucked yet more on the 2007, it sucked even more on the 2008, it sucked waaay more on the 2009, and now it's going to suck indefinitely from 2010 until God knows when!
(G) Only if you order them.
(H) I didn't realize weight and price-fetched were directly proportionate to each other. Interesting. You missed the point--no one ever made a car better by making it heavier. What the **** do they pay designer's for if not to make the product better?
(I) Okay, then.
(J) Retained them, fine. Again what's changed? Where's the "minus" here? When something is wrong, it's merely laziness, apathy, or possibly negligence not to fix it. But when you are setting out to improve something (theoretically, I ASSUME the designer's set out to improve the S197 for 2010), then it is inexcusable to leave the glaring flaws in place, thereby overshadowing the improvements you DID make! The steering wheel dominates the driver's view of the dash panel--which can't be overlooked even if you want to overlook it. Why spend money on the dash when everyone is distracted by the porky steering wheel? Early Firebird Trans-Ams had better-looking steering wheels over three decades ago! Nixon was President when there were cars with better-looking steering wheels than the current Mustang--when is the effin' steering wheel designer gonna finally come out of his or her stupor and fix the damned thing?? Buy the rights from Pontiac if necessary, but FIX THE DAMNED THING! How hard can it be???
As for the "mondo-dork" antenna thing… why is everyone making such a big deal out of this? IT'S JUST A FREAKING ANTENNA!!! Exactly! So why the fudge haven't they put the damned thing in the glass like many other cars did back in the previous century??
Anyway. Not trying to argue here. Just sayin'.
* = Subjective at best. We still haven't seen the "real deal" yet.
What the fudge were they thinking????
Greg "***** of the Month" Ates
Last edited by Eights; 10/24/08 at 09:09 AM.