I sent this to Shannon at WMS after reading the results from Brent . . .


Shannon,

Those of us who participaited in this group buy directly from WMS are concerned that there are not yet any new pictures on your web site of the final ram air tray. Additionally, we are a bit unnerved by the results of testing performed by one of your dealers, BRENSPEED.

I've included the information below for your convenience or it can be found at http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?showtopic=33138.

"Monday I finished up the WMS tunes that I am now shipping on X-calibrator 1 or 2 programmers. The surprise of the day was the optional 90MM mass air makes a lot more power than the 80mm when tuned. This may be why Steeda changed from 85mm to 90mm two months ago and why C&L is releasing a new 90MM mass air in September.

The other good news is no matter which mass air you choose the throttle response is night and day different than no tune at all. Your car will rev and respond faster than your factory computer tune. Not only do you pick up the peak HP listed below but this type of power is found all the time. Even as low as 3,000 rpm’s you are picking up a significant amount of power.

The GT in test was your basic 05 Mustang 5 speed with pulleys, axleback, and a Spec clutch & flywheel on a dynojet pulling in 4th gear. The systems tested were non-ram air systems. On the dyno a ram air will not add power. In theory once the vehicle is moving power should increase with the ram air system.


POWER GAINS BY JUST ADDING A TUNE:
Power gained when adding a Brenspeed tune to the 90MM WMS system. This is using the 80MM WMS with no tune numbers as a baseline. This is power gained by just adding the tune.
15.57 rwhp @ 6100 RPM from tune only
14.63 torque @ 4400 RPM from tune

Power gained when adding a Brenspeed tune to the 80MM WMS system. This is using the 80MM WMS as a baseline. This is power gained by just adding the tune.
9.97 rwhp @ 6100 RPM
9.59 torque @ 4400 RPM

Our air fuel is super safe. We can make it leaner for you if you are a weekend racer which will result in a little more power.

POWER GAINED WITH JUST THE WMS INTAKE TO ESTABLISH A BASELINE:
Power gained when adding the WMS 80MM air intake in place of the stock air box with no tune. This is the power we gained by just adding the WMS intake.
7.37 rwhp @ 5900 RPM
-4.32 torque @4400 RPM (KEEP READING)

I want to point out that our car is not exactly the same as the one tested by WMS. WMS tested there car a different day, different enviornment, and even on a different type dyno. According to the WMS website their test car was running really rich. Our test car was running a 12.4 A/F with the stock air box and the WMS car was around a 12.0 A/F. This may be the reason we did not pick up the gains claimed by WMS on the air system alone.The GOOD news is the tune brings out the power in the WMS system and I would say it is a must if you want to maximize the power of your WMS intake.

If you have a WMS intake and would like these programs give us a call. $379 for an X-calibrator 2 loaded with 3 programs, free USB cable, and free shipping. $369 if you order before September 1st.

sales@brenspeed.com or 574.834.7455"



Would you mind clarifying for our TMS membership why there is such a difference between this testing and the information contained on your web site? We would also like to know when we can expect updated photos of the final ram air tray?

 

I added the 90mm MAF to my order, so I won't be getting my CAI until the end of Sept, beginning of Aug. The numbers were different enough to wait. I am disappointed in the numbers though.

 

Bob (Lyin' King) I too am curious to know the factors which caused the difference in numbers from WMS to BRENSPEED. I'm a novice here so I'm just throwing this out there but I'm always reading in people's posts about tunes and dyno runs "temp and humidity". How big of a factor do these play? Reason being, notice on WMS' dyno chart.. they did that run in April and they are in Calgary. The air is a lot colder and drier up there at that time than when BRENSPEED tested this in Indiana in humid August 90 degree weather.



Mike

 

I've cancelled my WMS order for several reasons. I'm very disappointed with the numbers posted by Brent after his dyno session, plus I don't want to cut my stock wiring. If it turns out Brent's numbers are wrong after more people dyno (which I don't think they are), and a solution is found (which is just a matter of time) for the wiring, I'll reconsider.

 

BH,
Well...temp would play a role for sure, along with BP of course. The cooler denser air in Calgary wouldnt hurt, and the warm sothern air would....
Not sure why the differences in numbers exactly, I personally feel that there should not be this much of a difference.

I feel (many of U know) that there is potential here with this, only with the heat shield..In my honest opinion.
Im trying my hiney off to try and figure this out better, and it can be done, but will be more involved than most are willing to do for a simple CAI, again...IMHO.

Tom,

Sorry to hear U cancelled the order, I completely understand. A few years ago, I would have done the same thing the moment I noticed that the kits were not complete and ready to go. One thing that really bothers me incomplete promises...
Only a matter of time and someone will offer MAF exensions for kits like this. The front MAF is a better route, but there are issues as we are finding out.

As for the numbers...lets all be honest here.

I found the same results days before, but also had nothing but positive views on this kit. I'll say it again, as Brent did..
The MAF is a good piece, and one, if not the only out there that does not lean out to make power. I also felt it was appropiate to delete that until Brenspeed also tested,but his testing backs up mine alomost similar. I stopped testing when I noticed inlet temps spike when the fan kicked on. No sence in continuing and wasting money, again this is my opinion, and I have lots of them.

Yes when new products come out, there will always be issues like this that need to be worked out. Our main issue with this kit is heat from the fan wash...not the fan wash itself.....its the heat!! U would think the fan wash would cause some type of disturbance..nope, just heat.
The sheilds will help...lets hope I have mine sent out today as promised...

I have not heard a word from WMS in 2 days on status.

lyin'king,

I feel the same way, and WMS knows it. The one thing that really upsets me about this, is the lack of PICS. I too would love to see the heat sheild I purchased, but nothing yet.

 

Tom,

Sorry to hear about your order. I completely understand though. Someone will come up with a plug-n-play for the MAF; just a matter of time. Look at all the sequential taillights installed that use Webelectric's plug-n-play; I'm sure they saw a nice increase in orders vs before that when they only had the cut/splice version.

05STG1,

I agree the numbers difference shouldn't be so large. Just was trying to find all the pieces of the puzzle for possible contributing factors no matter how small.. they do add up . So let's say the temp and BP account for only a few horses, that leaves a great deal of dark matter out there to be found.

As far as pics, Paul (Great White North) is close by to WMS I believe as he stopped in once and saw the intake and ram in person. He said it's much better than the prototype. Paul, perhaps you could venture over there if you're in the area and snap up some pics for us?

 

Well just went to WMSRacing website and wonderof all wonders .Pictures and pricing on the Ram Air Box and awritre up on it.Now all I need is to receive the one I put an order in for.Can't be long

 

Ya know Bob, I checked the website right before submitting my post and it wasn't there hahaha. Gonna go read it now. Thanks for the heads-up!

 

Thanks for the input guys, all valid points!

There are lots of unanswered questions and I haven't received a response from WMS yet.

This intake does have potential. How could it not? I think as most of you do that the key is in the ram tray and its heat shielding . . . air directing functionality. But a review of the information on the WMS site shows their increases were gained without the tray, there is no mention of fan wash or data logging of inlet air temperature.

I'm going to hang, await delivery of my system and hope for the best. I'm sure sometime in the near future someone will flog this thing to our satisfaction and provide the answers we're seeking.

 

Looked at it, looks good to me. The only issue I may have is the inlets are above the fog's. The testing they did sounds promising. Now line that BAD LARRY w/ some thermal barrier, and were good to go... I like the looks of it, its huge...huge is good!


Im pleased with what I see

 

WMS response received . . . .

Hi Bob,


I just sent a message to Mike, here it is. Let me know if you need further info.



I see the difference in dyno numbers is significant but cannot say for sure where the difference does lie. When we did our dyno testing we were using a prototype of the ram air box, this does at least keep hot air from rising up to the filter. We did do some testing without any ram air or shield and generally the power was there for one run. If you did a back to back run the air intake temp went way up and the power dropped off. I don't know how Brent did this, could be part of it though.


As Brent explained as well there were many variables that changed between tests, different car, modifications, dyno, air fuel ratios, altitude, temperature etc.


I did get pictures and in car results with the ram air on the site last night. The ram air box makes a big difference in airflow and temperature as expected and I think will also make a significant difference in how the tune is done. I suggest anyone wanting a program wait to purchase until Brenspeed does some testing with the ram air.


Shannon


Western Motorsports Inc
www.wmsracing.com

 

I like how it looks i'm going to stick with it how many people ordered the 90mm MAF and will that delay the orders already sent

 

Good question. I was told that my order was going to be sent out late last week, but now is backed up a bit. I want to get the 90mm now that I saw the difference in the initial testing numbers. I don't want to be waiting forever tho.

 

WMS said they have enough MAF's to fill all the group buy orders, in the specs as orignally ordered. If one ordered originally with a 90MM they should be fine, no delay. I think they are now out of the 90MM so anyone switching to that from the 80MM that they originally ordered would be delayed till end of Sept. That's my understanding of the situation.

 

<thinking out loud>

Looking at this heat shield, I was wondering how it will fit with a TB spacer? Have one on the way..

Looks as if theres an oval hole that slides around the MAF/Filter. My thinking is...will a TB spacer move the assembly too far forward? will that cause the filer the sit higher/more forward towards that front of the tray? Its only an inch right...?

No alarms here...obviously the hood closes I like the looks of it, look forward to doing my own 50+MPH testing
I Called there a bit ago, Shannon not around, doesnt sound as if the trays went out yet, was working on it.

 

I just now figured out that thing to the right of the filter in the tray PIC, is the P/S reservoir cap. My temp wallpaper...

Lots of room for ice in that tray to keep beverages cold j/k

 

Yes, the end of Sept. the beginning of Aug. if you didn't originally order the 90mm MAF. Hopefully by that time, Brent will have tested with the box and the numbers will improve. Now can someone make a hood for this baby. The California Dream Hood has the vents in the right place but the opening on the underside of the hood opens to the stock airbox locale. I wonder if there is a way to modify it? Nevermind, I looked at it again and I'd forgotten that it had the cowl.

 

..heat extractor hood would be better ala' 03-04 COBRA style.

 

What about the 3D Carbon Hood?

 

Havent seen one up close yet, but I THINK the vents are a little too for forward, and may...may interfere with the WMS intake by sticking lower in that location than stock, if so...it wont work this intake is so tight.
But thats exactly what we need, maybe a little further back,not definte though.

Get that hot air outta there...