Bigger, Stronger, Faster
2/28/06, 09:17 AM
#102
Thread Starter
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eric n @ February 28, 2006, 12:08 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Would CHP or one of the other "name" engine builders be the way to go for a forced induction ready short block. Seems like it might be simpler and still result in more hp than is reasonable.
[/b][/quote]
That would depend on a person's situation I think. Someone who is purpose-building a race engine like David is wise to go with someone like Boss330. But, for someone who just wants a beefed up shortblock, and really doens't have a local enginebuilder they can trust, a "mail order" solution might be fine. And in the middle are people like me, who knows someone who can help them build an engine locally. This can be quite cost effective and you have control over what parts you use, but does require a lot of planning to get all the parts and machine work coordinated. Just my $0.02
Would CHP or one of the other "name" engine builders be the way to go for a forced induction ready short block. Seems like it might be simpler and still result in more hp than is reasonable.
[/b][/quote]
That would depend on a person's situation I think. Someone who is purpose-building a race engine like David is wise to go with someone like Boss330. But, for someone who just wants a beefed up shortblock, and really doens't have a local enginebuilder they can trust, a "mail order" solution might be fine. And in the middle are people like me, who knows someone who can help them build an engine locally. This can be quite cost effective and you have control over what parts you use, but does require a lot of planning to get all the parts and machine work coordinated. Just my $0.02
2/28/06, 02:57 PM
#103
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Don,
Congrats on getting the Teskid block!! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img] I am sure you are going with the FFRP forged crank but what manufacturer for rods and pistons?? Manley?? Also, I have to ask. Talk to Dynatech yet and what did they have to say?
Scott [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img]
P.S. I think you are making the right move by staying with the stock 4.6 liters. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/worship.gif[/img]
Congrats on getting the Teskid block!! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img] I am sure you are going with the FFRP forged crank but what manufacturer for rods and pistons?? Manley?? Also, I have to ask. Talk to Dynatech yet and what did they have to say?
Scott [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img]
P.S. I think you are making the right move by staying with the stock 4.6 liters. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/worship.gif[/img]
2/28/06, 03:48 PM
#104
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My opinion is that the Cats did not cause his blown motor. The weak rod and pistons are the causes. There are too many other blown 3v with the same side rear rods to go out to be cuases all by the Cats.
-Bryan
-Bryan
2/28/06, 03:50 PM
#105
Thread Starter
Still haven't decided on the rods/pistons, but Manley has been discussed. And I haven't had a chance to contact Dynatech yet. I've been trying to focus on making sure things are moving forward first, and then I'll deal with the past.
2/28/06, 04:18 PM
#106
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My motor wasn't a race only built motor. If it were, I would have stepped up to a billet crank, an alum. block, Aviad oiling system, billet cams (with a little wait), custom pistons, removed the A/C, P/S, slapped in a glide or C4, 9" rearend, gutted the interior, installed a 12 pt. cage and called it a day. I did specify to Al what I was doing, what kind of power I wanted and told him to have at it. He did offer up options that I went with. I asked about some other upgrades, but he didn't recommend them, so I didn't.
Al can build a motor to anyones likings. If you plan on getting to 400 or 600 hp max, he can build it accordingly. If you want 1000 hp, the same goes. I, personally, am one to overbuild, so I pretty much made it to handle most of what a 76mm turbo can spit out efficiently.
The different parts on the internals changes the price of the build. A cobra crank cost significantly less than a billet crank. One of Al's customers has a totally built 4V sitting there for sale for $15K with custom turbo cams etc. Tempting to just throw that thing in.
Al can build a motor to anyones likings. If you plan on getting to 400 or 600 hp max, he can build it accordingly. If you want 1000 hp, the same goes. I, personally, am one to overbuild, so I pretty much made it to handle most of what a 76mm turbo can spit out efficiently.
The different parts on the internals changes the price of the build. A cobra crank cost significantly less than a billet crank. One of Al's customers has a totally built 4V sitting there for sale for $15K with custom turbo cams etc. Tempting to just throw that thing in.
2/28/06, 04:33 PM
#107
Thread Starter
Sorry David... I didn't mean to imply that it was a "race only" motor.
2/28/06, 06:38 PM
#108
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ah, no biggie. Not that it affects me, but I wouldn't want anyone to be under the impression that Al ONLY builds race only motors
3/1/06, 09:45 AM
#109
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(169stang @ February 28, 2006, 3:21 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
My motor wasn't a race only built motor. If it were, I would have stepped up to a billet crank.....
[/b][/quote]
I see a lot of people recommending upgrading the crank. What is the stock crank made of? How many hp can it safely handle? Same question for a cobra crank, and a billet.
My motor wasn't a race only built motor. If it were, I would have stepped up to a billet crank.....
[/b][/quote]
I see a lot of people recommending upgrading the crank. What is the stock crank made of? How many hp can it safely handle? Same question for a cobra crank, and a billet.
3/1/06, 09:49 AM
#110
Thread Starter
I have read that the stock cast crank is good for 600hp, and the forged cobra crank should handle 900. No idea on the billet...
3/1/06, 10:59 AM
#111
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I'm not sure of the hp on billet either. The difference is mostly about rotational weight. different counter weights, as well as less surface overall that could potentially p/u oil (adding weight to the rotating crank). I believe they can be spun higher rpm wise too.
3/1/06, 11:09 AM
#112
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Don, are you forming a support group of any kind, one for people who boost their engines without the proper preparation of the rotating assembly? If so I am interested in taking part, my car is doomed. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nonono.gif[/img]
Derek
Derek
3/1/06, 11:26 AM
#113
Thread Starter
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dhof303 @ March 1, 2006, 10:12 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Don, are you forming a support group of any kind, one for people who boost their engines without the proper preparation of the rotating assembly? If so I am interested in taking part, my car is doomed. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nonono.gif[/img]
Derek
[/b][/quote]
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rofl2.gif[/img] hahaha
Yes, please send your annual membership dues to me via PayPal. I'm starting a fund for a new motor.
Don, are you forming a support group of any kind, one for people who boost their engines without the proper preparation of the rotating assembly? If so I am interested in taking part, my car is doomed. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nonono.gif[/img]
Derek
[/b][/quote]
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rofl2.gif[/img] hahaha
Yes, please send your annual membership dues to me via PayPal. I'm starting a fund for a new motor.
3/1/06, 01:56 PM
#114
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"Let's see here...my motor will cost about $5000 give or take...and I would like to upgrade the rods for another $1000, so....uh, yea, the membership fees are $2000 each with a min. of 3 members, $3000 for 2 members and $6000 for single membership. It's one hellava support group!"
3/1/06, 02:14 PM
#115
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(don_w @ February 24, 2006, 8:57 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Bigger, Stronger, Faster - It appears that may be my new motto, as I start down the path of a new built-up short block. Yes... my motor decided to commit suicide on the dyno yesterday. We’re not really sure what happened. It never was running right all day long. The timing was really low, and Adam was trying to figure out why it wouldn’t make any power. He didn’t push it because of that reason (never more than 14 degrees all day long, and AFR was consistently in the 11.0-11.5 range). It just let go at 5700rpm with just 11 degrees of timing. Adam had been running that same pulley on his car on the street for a while, and no problems. Best we can figure, one of the rods may have been stressed already, and it finally gave up. It decided to exit the block in a couple places.
So, I am in the process of deciding how I want to proceed. But, I've got to be honest... the idea of an iron-block, 302 stroker (with forged guts, of course) is intriguing right now. Thus, the "Bigger, Stronger, Faster" motto. Adam and I will be discussing all the options later today before I make a final decision.
[/b][/quote]
Jesus Christ Don_W!! OMG I missed this thread somehow... What a tragedy! I am so sorry for your loss.. So it let go at 11.5 AFR.. Thats scary indeed.. What was the charged air temp at the time, do you know? I have made pulls myself using Datalogging and have gone down to 11 degrees on timing while at full boost..
Here is a pull which goes down to 12.75 @ 12psi.. I have been down to 11 with a more aggressive setup... When I find it, I'll post that one..
Don_W, you can see how my Longterm and Shorterms are chasing each other which means its a safe situation.. Do you have a datalog of the dyno pull to know where your longterm and shorterms were?
@ALL
Advice, never make a dyno pull without your data logger hooked up... Ever! ....Ever!! You need to know what happen... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]
Also, Longterm and shorterm saftety while at WOT is + or - 10%.. If it goes higher than that while at WOT shut it down and re-tune..
Bigger, Stronger, Faster - It appears that may be my new motto, as I start down the path of a new built-up short block. Yes... my motor decided to commit suicide on the dyno yesterday. We’re not really sure what happened. It never was running right all day long. The timing was really low, and Adam was trying to figure out why it wouldn’t make any power. He didn’t push it because of that reason (never more than 14 degrees all day long, and AFR was consistently in the 11.0-11.5 range). It just let go at 5700rpm with just 11 degrees of timing. Adam had been running that same pulley on his car on the street for a while, and no problems. Best we can figure, one of the rods may have been stressed already, and it finally gave up. It decided to exit the block in a couple places.
So, I am in the process of deciding how I want to proceed. But, I've got to be honest... the idea of an iron-block, 302 stroker (with forged guts, of course) is intriguing right now. Thus, the "Bigger, Stronger, Faster" motto. Adam and I will be discussing all the options later today before I make a final decision.
[/b][/quote]
Jesus Christ Don_W!! OMG I missed this thread somehow... What a tragedy! I am so sorry for your loss.. So it let go at 11.5 AFR.. Thats scary indeed.. What was the charged air temp at the time, do you know? I have made pulls myself using Datalogging and have gone down to 11 degrees on timing while at full boost..
Here is a pull which goes down to 12.75 @ 12psi.. I have been down to 11 with a more aggressive setup... When I find it, I'll post that one..
Don_W, you can see how my Longterm and Shorterms are chasing each other which means its a safe situation.. Do you have a datalog of the dyno pull to know where your longterm and shorterms were?
@ALL
Advice, never make a dyno pull without your data logger hooked up... Ever! ....Ever!! You need to know what happen... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]
Also, Longterm and shorterm saftety while at WOT is + or - 10%.. If it goes higher than that while at WOT shut it down and re-tune..
3/1/06, 02:29 PM
#116
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@ALL
This is important because it may not have been a ROD issue.. It could have been something else, which was out of wack and killed the rod.. This is why I say, always use datalogging when on the dyno.. Just ask whoever is doing the pull for you to giveyou a second while you press start.. Lets say Don's Longterms and shorterms were showing they were out of range, which would mean to quickley lift off the gas ASAP.. Without a Datalog, this information has been forever lost..
darn, I hate to hear about these things.. darn!!
This is important because it may not have been a ROD issue.. It could have been something else, which was out of wack and killed the rod.. This is why I say, always use datalogging when on the dyno.. Just ask whoever is doing the pull for you to giveyou a second while you press start.. Lets say Don's Longterms and shorterms were showing they were out of range, which would mean to quickley lift off the gas ASAP.. Without a Datalog, this information has been forever lost..
darn, I hate to hear about these things.. darn!!
3/1/06, 04:16 PM
#117
Thread Starter
Every millisecond of every pull was being datalogged. There was never more than 14 degrees of timing in it all day long. And there is no evidence of detonation on the pistons.
For more details on the teardown and forensics, read Post #67 and Post #69 of this thread.
How about 10 guys at $500 each. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]
For more details on the teardown and forensics, read Post #67 and Post #69 of this thread.
Originally posted by 169stang
"Let's see here...my motor will cost about $5000 give or take...and I would like to upgrade the rods for another $1000, so....uh, yea, the membership fees are $2000 each with a min. of 3 members, $3000 for 2 members and $6000 for single membership. It's one hellava support group!"
"Let's see here...my motor will cost about $5000 give or take...and I would like to upgrade the rods for another $1000, so....uh, yea, the membership fees are $2000 each with a min. of 3 members, $3000 for 2 members and $6000 for single membership. It's one hellava support group!"
3/2/06, 04:25 PM
#120
Mach 1 Member
Wow, I feel bad for what happened, but I think you are going to be facing an uphill battle trying to get Dynatech to pay for your engine. You can argue that it was the cat that caused it to blow up, but they will argue that it was the supercharger which broke the cat, or mishandling of it during installation that caused it to mailfunction.