I heard GM had to limit the power output as their prototypes kept disappearing once they hit 88mph.

(seriously, you two had me cracking up!)

1. This is getting pointless, but I will respond one last time, It sounds like you don't know too much about cars. You forget the Camaro is getting THE EXACT SAME LS3 the corvette is getting, Just about all aftermarket parts for the corvette will work for the camaro. Here is a link as you requested, though this is a pretty agressive cam that make waaaaaaaaay over 500hp,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VwDPEXkQYE

I am planning to go to LG motorsports and use their G6X-2 cam. Also GM's Hotcam which is very mild cam adds 50hp to the LS3, have it tuned and you are right at 500hp. I like LG motorsports best, their G6X-4 cam alone make the LS3 corvette lay down 517 RWHP!!!


2. You ask about a source for the 5.0 Haveing an 11.0 Compression, Problem is their is no proof at all that the 5.0 even exists sir!!!! Ford has said nothing, there is nothing but internet rumors according to mustang fans whom say the 5.0 will have over 400 hp about 370lb of tq, a 7000 rpm redline and a 11.0 compresion. Which means if that is true their will be no supercharger option for the V8, The burden of proof is ON YOU SIR, show me a link that the 5.0 Exist with the HP you claim it will have!!

3. You are showing your ignorance (no offense) in thinking that if a 400hp mustang and a 430 hp camaro is supercharged that the final output would remain 20-30hp together, It does not work that way.

4. The camaro was designed with the 2010 Gov satey regs in mind as was the 2010 370Z, remeber 2010 was going to be the year that required car manufactuers to comply with the new safety regs, but it was pushed back to 2011 not too long ago.

5. As of now the 5.0 does not exist and I will believe it when I see it, what is here right now and have been for about 12 years is the 4.6 V8 in the GT, in 2010 it makes 68.47 hp per liter, compared to the camaro's 69.78 hp per litler (LS3 is 6.162cc). But as I said hp per liter does not tranlate into anything in the real world. But Horspower, Fuel economy, Torque etc... In these areas the LS3 have the advantage over Ford Mod V8, Useing your logic Go buy a Honda S-2000 or a Mazda RX-8 lol!! Hope this helps.

As of now the Camaro does not exist.

same type of information was available on the 6.2 SOHC Boss Engine and boom, Boss Engine is in the SVT Raptor. 5.0 is coming if you want to bet it against it go ahead but odds are 10 to 1

Not only is this getting pointless, but your also becoming very annoying as well. For ever since you joined our website, all you've done is continuously bash the Ford Mustang with your pompous a$$ remarks in which I am personally fed up with your constant bragging about how superior your 2010 Camaro is over the Mustang along with beating the pants off it. As not only are your remarks in very bad taste, but are also very offensive as well.

In case you've forgotten, this is a Mustang website, in which btw: you were informed by one of the moderators that we do not tolerate trolls, personal attacks period. Therefore if you don't like what's being posted on these forums. Then either submit your disagreements in a respectful and courteous manner, or join a Camaro website and post your superior/bragging right remarks there.



I may not be an expert on GM engines, but FYI. I've been a Ford and Mustang enthusiast for well over 35 years.

As for not knowing too much about cars in general, It appears more than obvious that you've neither looked at my mod list, nor that I've owned 4 previous Mustangs.

Now does this mean that I'm a car genius ? Of course not, but during the past 35 years. I've acquired all the basic knowledge skills required, in order to work on my own cars. Which is more than good enough for me. And although I fully admit that I'm not an expert on your LS-3 engines, I do have enough common sense to know the amount of power they make.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VwDPEXkQYE


I also cheked out your cam link, and even though the LS-3 made 498RWHP. on a Corvette. You're forgetting something here, the Corvette is a smaller and lighter weight car over the larger Zeta platform based Camaro. Therefore until we know the test results, who's to say what the actual real world results are going to be for the Camaro.




Once again, those results of 517RWHP were on a LS-3 Corvette, not a Camaro.


Your proof will come soon enough in March/April 2010. In the meantime our forum moderator BOOMER along with forum members GTJOHN, HOLLYWOOD NORTH GT, 05FORDGT will all back up everything I've mentioned. As the 400HP 5.0L, is indeed coming on the 2011MY in 2010.

You can also locate the following members, listed above in the 2010 Mustang forums.

Well I haven't come across anyone who has mentioned the 5.0 having an 11.0 compression rate, so until somebody is able to confirm this. I'm just going to assume that it's not accurate.

But for the sake of argument, let's just say that even if the 5.0 does end up with an 11.0 compression rate. If I were so concerned about making 500+ HP. All I'd have to do, is upgrade to forged internals, add a Ford racing cam along with upgrading to a Ford racing engine management system, and guess what. A supercharger option becomes available, once again.

You want some more proof. Check this out, Genius !!!

http://www.fordracingparts.com/musta...t-FR500GT3.pdf

Engine
Ford Racing 5.0L Cammer V8 race engine
mapped for 102 octane unleaded fuel
BOSCH engine management system
Baffled anti-surge wet sump
Tuned tubular exhaust manifold
Power output 550 hp @ 7200 rpm
Torque output 570 Nm @ 6000 rpm

My ignorance :rofl2:Once again, you completely misinterpreted my post. For I clearly stated that if a supercharged 400HP 5.0 produces 500HP and a supercharged 430HP 6.2 produces 530 HP. Your Camaro is making 30 more HP over the Mustang. Now who in the hell said anything about the final outcome being 20-30HP together. Therefore, If anybody is showing their ignorance here, it's you.
:screwy:

As I mentioned previously, because of the recent bailout conditions. The top priority, is going to be upon complying with CAFE regulations for producing more fuel efficient vehicles. IMHO, It appears more than likely the new safety regulations are going to be pushed back even further to 2012, as a direct result.

As I said before, the forum members that I've listed. Will back up everything I've posted.


We also know that if a 5.0 4V produces 400HP. N/A and a LS-3 produces 430HP. N/A. The LS-3, is once again producing 30 more HP over the 5.0 4V and nothing more. Which as I mentioned before, doesn't provide your Camaro with enough HP required to whip a 2011 Mustang GT.

Not only is this my logic, but is also fact as well. Therefore, you go buy a Honda S-2000 or a Mazda RX-8:poke:


With that said, the 400HP 5.0L is indeed coming. And if that isn't acceptable enough for you. Then nobody here is forcing you to post anything, by pointing a gun to your head.

So why don't you just do yourself, and everybody else here a favor. Don't bother wasting anymore of our time. For this entire who has more HP bragging rights crap, has become totally useless, boring and very annoying to say the least. As I am done with participating in this pointless argument any further !!!

Can somebody please just ban this guy? He has no apparent business in this forum as far as I'm concerned. Not only is he trolling our forum with pro-GM posts but he is also attacking other posters directly :nonono:

Note: My suggestion is not a way to suppress 1st amendment rights. I just want some control in this thread and the forum in general. Camaro fans have their place, we have ours. Trust me truth, we are being nice but enough is enough.

:arinandlalo:

I couldn't have said it any better, Edson :cheers:

Stang!

Wow!! You asked me for proof that a $500 cam in a ls3 would make 500 hp, I gave you what you requested and showed you a cam that makes an LS3 vette make 500 at the wheels, (again the camaro and vette will use the exact same ls3) Then you call me disrespectfull for complying with your wishes and be Banned. Wow thats a new one.

Also What so disrespectful for saying 300hp is better than 210hp
IRS is better than SRA for daily driving, how is that disrepectfull
430hp is better than 315hp how is that disrespectful
2010 camaro will have better performance than the 2010 mustang, how is that disrespectful, is not all that I stated facts??
No one ultimately knows whats in store for 2011, until then I will focus on what has been revealed for 2010. But don't take it the wrong way, the 2010 camaro being a superior peformance vehicle than the 2010 mustang will FORCED ford to make the mustang a better car, it is called competition. hope you guys have a good day.

Just tell me this. Where is the "Mystical" Camaro?

You Lose

I also suppose you don't consider such adolescent remarks as being disrespectful either, right.

Well I don't care how you choose to spin it, the fact remains that such remarks are indeed very disrespectful, and are not tolerated under the rules of this website, period. Which was explained to you by the moderators, when you joined this website. Therefore, there are no excuses whatsoever !

Around western Pa, I see more Mustangs on the road than Camaros. I have a theory as to why this is so. If you notice, there isn't too many GM anything left running that's 15 years old or older '82- 01. Around here , when they are that old, they are either bailer meat or have become someones lawn ornament! Used car lots are glutted with 02-07 and newer cars in GM and if you want to test drive one, they have to jump start it! So bring on the new Camaro! It might be a little faster than the Mustang but that's ok by me because the other race the Camaro will win is the race to the junk-yard !! There is an ad on tv that states that 90% of all GM products are still on the road. Yeah and the other 10% actually made it home !! :D

Hey Rich, small world. As I'm not that far from New Castle at all. :nice:

I agree.

My buddy has '94 Trans Am T-Top and I was a big fan of that car until I actually drove it. No wonder it failed.

your manner and tone in nearly every post you've made in this thread has been disrespectful. how you say something is oftentimes just as important or moreso than what you have to say

I've looked through this entire thread and you have been the least reasonable and least respectful of anyone else who has posted here. You'll notice that you've received one infraction for directly insulting another member. you're lucky i only gave you one, but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt just a little bit longer.

Stop being so rude or you will face more infractions, or worse

10k Camaro's? That many? Surely, GM is saved! :nice:

Yet another GM project which is destined to fail. To their credit GM is truly trying to be progressive in this instance, but it reminds of the automotive equivelant of the WWII Market Garden campaign hatched by Montgomery. Admirably ambitious maybe, but truly a 'bridge too far'. The cold, hard truth? Given the current state of the company GM really didn't have the money to develop such a vehicle in the first place. Even worse GM was and still is going into Volt knowing it will be a money loser. Worst of all they are introducing the car into a market which frankly isn't ready for a mainstream, mid-sized hybrid which costs 40k per unit, meaning GM's losses are going to be even higher than they claim to expect.

This is another case of misguided investment, with GM hoping in this case (much like the ZR1) that hype will do more for their bottom line than truly wise investments and planning will. Unfortunately for GM they are well past the point where hype can practically be expected to help at all. And in any case the same can never serve effectively as a substitute for actually running a credible operation.

In the first few months of Malibu sales GM's advertising did it's job and brought a slew of import owners into showrooms. Unfortunately, if not surprisingly, rather few of those folks actually bought a Malibu. GM wants to beat their drum lauding the fact that Camry is the most traded model by Malibu purchasers. However, by itself that number means nothing......you must also take into consideration how many cars in general, and Camry's in particular have been traded in and how many Malibu's have been sold overall. Effectively GM is patting themselves on the back for convincing some Camry owners to trade for a Malibu while they neglect to touch on the more important issues......how many import owners are they convincing to try their product and how many sales have they made. Percentages are very easy to manipulate, sales totals less so. Given the investment put into it and hopes placed upon it Malibu is a relative flop.

As for Camaro it may steal some sales from variouss rivals, initially. However, in the end it now looks extrmely likely that the Camaro is destined to be yet another money loser for GM, partially because of the disaster that is Zeta and partially because of somewhat ambitious pricing. I think the Camaro will have a good first full year of sales, maybe even extending that out a couple of months past one full year if the starts align, after which time GM will struggle to move 100k units per year even with rebates.

May want to take your own advice their skippy. Delta 2 is indeed global, but our Chevy Cruze wont be based on the European version of that platform. Instead, we get a rebadge of the version of the Delta 2 platform-bsed sedan developed by GM's South Korean arm which was, prior to GM's purchase of the same, known as........wait for it........Daewoo.

I don't like the camaro, but that doesn't mean I don't want it to succeed.
Unfortunately up until this point I've not heard a lot of good things with regards to its launch.
I wouldn't be surprised if its pushed back.

Now the car itself, its not really my thing.
I don't like how its a cartoon of itself and the interior is pretty much a nintendo controller on steroids...
..but that's my view.

Pre-orders or not, are not going to tell the story alone.
This car has been out of production for more than 6 years, and has a lot of followers that can't wait to get into a new one. The following 2 years AFTER are going to be crucial.
I wonder how different the story would be, if the incoming car was a year after the previous 4th gen.
Would as many people be clamouring to it?

All that aside, my only real gripe with the way they handled the car, is how early the concept was shown, to how late the car is released. It's the Duke Nukem Forver of the car industry.

:ohsnap: Nice one!

Sigh... I will admit in responding to Jsaylor half truths, I used words that were inapropiate, therefore I apologize. Though I will disagree that I am unreasonable, that award should have went to Jsaylor, But I am starting to think this thread is a fake. This is how I see it...

2010 Mustang: Highly customizable vehicle, better total features than the camaro (like Sat. Nav, and Sync) and is fun to drive, but when comparing its performance to the competiton Stock vs Stock it does not hang. Ford is not interested in makeing the mustang the best performance car for the money, it seems they just want to keep the mustangs performance COMPETITIVE while keep the mustang highly customizable. The Mustang GT will probaly never be the best performance car for the money vs the competition, thats not what ford is trying to do, nor have been doing with the mustang.

2010 Camaro: Stock vs Stock it will beat the mustang GT in virtually every performance catergory But unlike last go around where the V8 had all the attention and the V6 was crap. It seem GM has learned from their mistakes and threw everything they had at the V6. Includeing destenation charges the V6 camaro is within $700 of the V6 Mustang. But that $700 gets you about 100 more hp, Better fuel economy, Better daily driving (IRS) etc...

So unlike last go around When the mustang had the Better V6 car and the camaro was the better V8, THis time IMO for the money The camaro is the better V6 and V8 car. Now if this post is considered offensive and disrespectful, then this thread should be closed. Why have a thread on a mustang site called 2010 mustang vs 2010 camaro, and when I speak of clear advantages the Camaro will have over the mustang, I am called a "pompus A$$", disrespectful and should be banned??

We have Shelby for that.