2010 mustang vs camaro
 

well now that we have some kind of info on a 5.0 im gonna make a poll :metal:

i meant to put 2011 my bad

As long as the GT comes in around 3600 or less it should have the goods to take down the F5

yea but it depends on what this block is gonna be made out of.... cast or alum

v6 camaro will own the 3 valve:poke:


correct me if i am wrong but if that thing comes out as an 11:1 motor then the only guys that are going to be happy are the nitrous freaks, and then the base v8 may not be built to handle a shot anyway. it will require a whole rebuild if you want to go turbo or supercharger....

its not a 3 valve 5.0 its a 4v james ;) it has 32 valves divide that by 4 you get 8 v8 4 valves per cyl

why, will 70lbs make or break it? I dont think so.

i understand but i wrote that respoonse before the poll had started, then posted after i came back to this computer.

i did however edit it once i read the responses. however it still stands that the 2010 mustang year will suffer to the competition.

absolutely, 70lbs is the difference of introducing myself to the blind date or walking away before she notices me..........

The alum block is cast aswell;)

Yeah cant wait for all those 300hp 3700 lbs F5s to take down all those 300hp 3500 lbs S-197s

yea its cool james yea the 2010 mustang might just be somthing too see how the camaro does against it...
as in the block post i was talking about saving weight

Its something we are all too accustomed to

You dont think it will be close?

i think it will be just few seconds

No even most of the Camaro guys admit it. The Stang weighs a lot less and has more torque.

Anyway, if the Mustang continues to have a significant weight advantage, then yes the 2011 5.0 will outrun a 6.2 SS

i can see the mustang and the camaro too be a good race just cause the mustang will win ;)

:lol:

Dont forget us 300hp SN95 guys either. Im sitting on ready for this given the smack talk on the F5 boards about how the 300 hp v6 F body may take out the s197 GT's. :rofl2:I think they might be surprised how good those old Mach 1's really do run. :grin:

The 5.0 will surprise a LOT of people.

That's not saying GM will take it lying down either... but things take time to get through the pipe...and well...
the weight advantage isn't exactly as easy to get rid of.

I'd put my money by a few tenths on the 5.0 GT,
IF they can keep the weight in check

It will be interesting. I think GM might have a couple of tricks in their corner. The LS3 could benefit from VVT and Direct Injection. Both are technologies that GM is rumored to have been working on for the LS series motors.

True, but the 5.0 can also play the DI card down the road. And there's always EB.

Well lets see, with a 201 pound weight advantage and a 47 ft/lbs torque advantage with the GT?

Trans gear I-V x Final Drive x Peak Torque / Tire Radius / Curb Weight = t/w ratio

2.97 x 3.55 x 320 = 3373.92/1.1358 = 2970.44/3540 = 1.19
1.78 x 3.55 x 320 = 2022.08/1.1358 = 1780.31/3540 = 1.99
1.30 x 3.55 x 320 = 1476.80/1.1358 = 1300.22/3540 = 2.73
1.00 x 3.55 x 320 = 1136.00/1.1358 = 1000.18/3540 = 3.54
0.80 x 3.55 x 320 = 908.80/1.1358 = 800.14/3540 = 4.42

4.07 x 3.27 x 273 = 3633.33/1.1950 = 3040.44/3741 = 1.23
2.37 x 3.27 x 273 = 2115.72/1.1950 = 1770.48/3741 = 2.11
1.55 x 3.27 x 273 = 1383.70/1.1950 = 1157.91/3741 = 3.23
1.16 x 3.27 x 273 = 1035.54/1.1950 = 866.56/3741 = 4.32
0.85 x 3.27 x 273 = 758.80/1.1950 = 634.98/3741 = 5.89

Anyways you can see the F5 has a torque advantage in 1st gear but it diminishes after that but the car has to carry more weight. It looks pretty close in I - II gears, but III gear and above the Mustang has a pretty good Advantage.

I figured it based on a stripped M5 V8 Mustang with a 235/50R18 vs a stripped A6 V6 Camaro with a 245/45R20

Its getting late so I'm gonna stop here, but if anybody wants to convert the peak torque values into horsepower (torque x rpm / 5252 = hp), it might yield different results since the V6 F5 produces peak torque @ 5200 rpm vs the GT's peak torque at 4500 rpm, just use the value after the adjustment for tire radius (which diminishes the effective torque) and divide the curb weight by that number.

however you cut it, unless ford introduces it now then we all will be sucking hind teet until 2011 and 10 is going to be a lonnnnnnnnnnngggg year while dodge and chevy are pointing the finger laughing.

bob, i was not being serious about the v6 but for most they only see the hp number and that is it. even if ford is to do the tt v6 everyone is hoping for, i am still a v8 guy.

How so? The R/T Dodge will have more HP, but it can't even outrun a GT thanks to it's elephant weight. The SS will definitely outrun a 4.6 GT, but it will cost significantly more. Nothing to worry about imo

GM and Dodge boys normally look too much into hp/tq numbers. I usually like to see things from a $ to $ stand point. For a Stock f5 to beat a stock GT, GM boys have to pay about 6k more (at least). So anyone thinking about getting a Camaro, wait an extra year, buy a GT and put the money you save into mods, then just see how many car lengths in front you'll be. Think this motor will be able to get 400 to the wheels with just bolt ons?

I think the Camaro will be the quicker car......but I don't care. For me, there's so much that's more important than a few 1/10th here and there. I love the look of the new Camaro and it'll be a great car, I'm sure. BUT, there's just something so right about the Mustang. Perhaps it's the uninterrupted 45 year history, perhaps it's the fact the Mustang is a film star, past and present. The Mustang is THE iconic Pony car and that's what does it for me.

:)

Very true. I do not understand why Ford is putting the new 5.0 out without direct injection at launch. It's a stupid move in my opinion. Ford has the technology and it improves power, increases efficiency, and decreases emissions. The move is typical Ford non-sense.

I think the 11' GT will be the quicker car or at least equal to the Camaro in 1/4 times, but the more expensive Camaro will be the more complete car in terms of performance. I have a feeling that the Camaro will have superior braking (optional Brembos) and handling (IRS) over the Stang but will also cost much more. At the same time the Mustang should offer more high tech stuff like Sync and a much better looking interior. Perhaps the only major drawback is that the Camaro and Challenger are "all new" while the Mustang is a minor face lift. I don't think looks alone are gonna get people to trade in their current gen Mustang for an 10', but maybe i'm wrong. Personally I think we should boycott the 10' so we can get the 5.0 sooner....look at the 04 to 05 GTO. GM reacted quick to get a better motor under the hood maybe ford will do the same :grin:

I have a feeling both cars will be quite successful at least for a year or two. I think the Challenger is gonna be the real loser in the 3 way pony car battle. Even if we have a carryover 4.6 for 10', the top dog GT500 will at least match the current gen's GT500 so I think Ford still wins the HP war for the 10' model year!

As I said elsewhere, "having" something and being able to mass produce it for a mainline product are two different things. The 5.0 was designed with DI in mind, but designing an engine for DI doesn't magically establish the suppliers, in-house assembly lines, training, and quality testing. Its the same reason the V6s launched without DI, and why the first vehicle to get it will be the relatively low volume MKS.

gt500 with the dealer mark up all over again ftl.

and why should i have to buy a gt500 to be above the base v8's from the competitors? the base model v8 should be the competition for the others and not the 15k more top mustang.

see i was starting to get excited and that post pissed me off all over again!!! with that said, i am in the market for a gt500 but again if it is not going to be updated until 2011 then i will find an 07 or 08.

I think the 5.0 is gonna rip. It's going to be a really impressive motor. For once I think the Mustang will be able to hold it's own against higher end sports coupes. It could actually be a poor mans M3 if this motor is as good as it sounds.

hell yeaa and maybe it can beat the m3 lol doubt it

Camaro: 420hp, 3800lbs, 9.05lbs/hp
Mustang: 400hp, 3600lbs, 9.00lbs/hp

Assuming the mustang gains 100-150lbs (I'm pretty sure it will. Ford isn't doing their "lose 300lbs on every model" for a few more years), it should still be marginally faster. So it's really up to the tires and drivers.

But I don't see why NINE people would think that the camaro will actually be faster..

We won't see the markups we saw back when the 07' GT500 came out. Sure we might see them for a short time but not for $20,000 above MSRP like in 06'.....people are crazy. For one it is no longer the only car around, it will compete with Chevy and Dodge. Second, this car is now slated to be in production for a while now and isn't being hailed as the "limited 2 year production run" as first thought. Take a look around, there are several GT500s sitting on lots for MSRP now, just be patient as i'm also looking to pick one of these up in the next year or two. As far as the "base V8" Camaro I have a feeling it will be closer in price with the GT500 than the GT. The 10' base model Camaro is in the same price range as a current GT. Heck, I remember even during the 4th gen days the Z28 was about the Same price as the top model Cobra.

well atleast the mustang and camaro be a dam good challange ;)

I totally agree with you. I couldn't care less who can beat who, I'll always go with the Mustang because of what it is.

^^ i am a ford/mustang man too, even got the ford tatoo's (mis spent youth) to go with it but.......... a smart buy is exactly that and you have to weigh the options out there. after reading an article on the challenger i know dodge will not get my money.

i am sure i will never stray though, i can not put chevy on my body..lol..

If we are talking drag strip the Stang will beat the Camaro. However, on a road course it might be the other way around.

Other manufacturers have been able to mass produce direct injection. This is just another example of Ford being late to the game. Mazda has the technology, so you have all the resources covered.

Going to vote Mustang all the way! IF Ford wises up, there would be a 6-speed transmission across the line (for uh, fuel economy reasons...) to put more hurt on the Camaro/Challenger competition.

base? Its the ONLY V8 the camaro has

There will be a 6-speed with the 5.0 :nice:

This poll is messed up title says 2010 yet choice are on 2011 engines. 2010 camaro will be faster, 2011 mustang will be faster.

Hopefully Ford will bump the 4.6 for '10. Even 10-15 would be enough, for marketing, although 25-35 would be a lot better.

With the Camaro V6 @300, if the '10 4.6 is 100% carry-over, that would not be good...

Actually, I think it would be very close, perhaps a driver's race. While the Stang gives up 20 some horsepower, it'll probably be about 200lbs lighter. Presumably, well, maybe hopefully, Ford will have the good sense to back the 5.0 with 6.0 gears and a decent rear end ratio and that may win the day on the strip.

On the track, or back road, I might give the Camaro an edge by dint of its more sophisticated and presumably broadly capable suspension design. But this, as with acceleration, will really have to await a comparo test to really know for sure.

Mustang M5 I-V
2.97 x 3.55 x 320 = 3373.92/1.1358 = 2970.44 ft/lbs. - 241.39 hp/3540 = 14.66 p/w
1.78 x 3.55 x 320 = 2022.08/1.1358 = 1780.31 ft/lbs. - 241.40 hp/3540 = 14.66 p/w
1.30 x 3.55 x 320 = 1476.80/1.1358 = 1300.22 ft/lbs. - 241.40 hp/3540 = 14.66 p/w
1.00 x 3.55 x 320 = 1136.00/1.1358 = 1000.18 ft/lbs. - 241.40 hp/3540 = 14.66 p/w
0.80 x 3.55 x 320 = 908.80/1.1358 = 800.14 ft/lbs. - 241.39 hp/3540 = 14.66 p/w

Camaro A6 I-V
4.07 x 3.27 x 273 = 3633.33/1.1950 = 3040.44 ft/lbs. - 226.19 hp/3741 = 16.54 p/w
2.37 x 3.27 x 273 = 2115.72/1.1950 = 1770.48 ft/lbs. - 226.19 hp/3741 = 16.54 p/w
1.55 x 3.27 x 273 = 1383.70/1.1950 = 1157.91 ft/lbs. - 226.19 hp/3741 = 16.54 p/w
1.16 x 3.27 x 273 = 1035.54/1.1950 = 866.56 ft/lbs. - 226.19 hp/3741 = 16.54 p/w
0.85 x 3.27 x 273 = 758.80/1.1950 = 634.98 ft/lbs. - 226.19 hp/3741 = 16.54 p/w

Okay I hope I figured things correctly here ( peak torque RPM / Trans gear / final drive gear x torque / 5252 = HP) / 3741 = power to weight ratio ) This changes things a bit giving the Mustang V8 a nice advantage in HP and P/W despite the overall lower engine speed. If I've figured all this correctly its even more interesting to note the linear power produced by both the A6 and M5 in terms of HP compared to the amount of torque produced, thats just frigg'n neat! The final output also accounts for the diminishing effect of the tire radius.

Also intresting to note on the Mustang that swaping out the 3.55 gears for the 3.27's reduces torque (in 1st gear) to 2736.23, yet when you compute RPM for HP the power remains unchanged at 241.40 hp, neat-o, I also substituted 4.11's and ran through the math again, despite the increased torque provided by the 4.11 gears HP remained essentially unchanged!

So just how are the Camaro and Challenger new ??? We've all seen what both cars have looked like for over 3 years now. As very little had changed from concept to final production versions.

Although the 2010 Mustang, is just a refresh of the current S-197. It won't look outdated and stale, when compared to the Challenger and Camaro, we've been exposed to for over 3 years.


That being said, Ford did the right thing by not revealing the 2010 refresh, too soon !

In a straight line, I'm guessing a driver's race. What the Camaro has in peak HP, it gives up in extra weight. The Camaro will likely have a slightly broader, lower rpm power band than the Stang, but the presumably revvier Stang, also presuming a tight six-speed tranny, would only have to be kept a bit more on the boil, which would not be a terrible thing given a nice sharp 32V V8 sound track.

Did you know that the Camaro will be competing against the Mustang in the "Koni Challenge" next year??

I agree that Ford keeping the 10' under tight wraps was a good idea to keep the car fresh and new looking. As far as the Camaro and Challenger being three years old I get what you are saying but disagree. Seeing the car in person is very different from seeing it in pictures. The current Mustang is all over the place. From a distance you probably won't be able to tell a 05' from an 10'. I recently saw a Challenger in person and it was actually the opposite of what I thought when I saw it in person. (I actually liked the car more in photos than I did when I saw it in person). I guess the same can be said for the 10' model. Many on these forums and if i'm honest with myself like the style of the current gen more compared to the spy shots we have seen so far, but there is a good chance that will change once I see it in person and without the cammo.

I've also seen the Challenger in person, and although it resembles the original 70-74 models. IMHO it just looks way too tall, and porky.

Maybe it's just me, but the car also seems to look more like a hot wheels/cartoon caricature of the original.

Perhaps I'm being a bit biased here, but now that I've finally seen the new Challenger, and 2010 Camaro concept in person. I no longer consider my current 05 GT, as being such a huge car anymore.

In the meantime, I'll also wait for the full reveal before passing final judgment on the 2010 re-fresh.

Motor Trend just did a story on the entire Challenger lineup. Though they tried sugarcoating the results in favor of the Challenger by claiming biases like "better looking" and stating that though a GT500 outperformed the Challenger it was a whopping $2500 more...... The Mustang still pretty much outperformed the Dodge across the model lineup with MT's own calculations. Ha I love how journalists can muddy the waters with expressive writing.

Challenger Versus Mustang Vehicle Dodge Challenger SE V-6 automatic Ford Mustang V6 5-speed automatic Dodge Challenger R/T 6-speed manual Ford Mustang Bullitt 5-speed manual Price* $24,790 $21,785 $32,340 $32,830 Engine 3.5 V-6 4.0 V-6 5.7 V-8 4.6 V-8 SAE hp 250 210 376 315 Torque, lb-ft 250 240 410 325 Curb weight, lbs 3712 3407 4154 3590 Weight dist, f/r 54/46 54/46 53/47 54/46 lb/hp 14.8 14.2 10.1 11 Acceleration to mph 0-30 2.6 sec 2.6 sec 1.9 sec 1.9 sec 0-40 3.9 3.8 2.9 2.9 0-50 5.4 5.4 3.8 3.8 0-60 7.3 7.3 5.1 5 0-70 9.6 9.6 6.5 6.6 0-80 12.2 12.3 8.1 8.4 0-90 15.5 15.2 10.2 10.3 0-100 20.1 20.2 12.4 12.8 Quarter mile 15.6 sec @ 90.3 mph 15.3 sec @ 91.7 mph 13.6 sec @ 104.9 mph 13.7 sec @ 102.7 mph Braking, 60-0 mph 130 ft 126 ft 135 ft 127 ft Lateral acceleration 0.83 g (avg) 0.81 g (avg) 0.82 g (avg) 0.87 g (avg) MT figure eight 28.4 sec @ 0.59 g (avg) 27.9 sec @ 0.61 g (avg) 27.5 sec @ 0.63 g (avg) 26.4 sec @ 0.52 g (avg)
Vehicle Ford Mustang GT 5-speed manual Dodge Challenger SRT8 6-speed manual Dodge Challenger SRT8 automatic Ford Shelby GT500 6-speed manual Price* $27,570 $42,490 $41,795 $44,780 Engine 4.6 V-8 6.1 V-8 6.1 V-8 5.4 s/c V-8 SAE hp 300 425 425 500 Torque, lb-ft 320 420 420 480 Curb weight, lbs 3523 4146 4137 3879 Weight dist, f/r 53/47 55/45 55/45 58/42 lb/hp 11 9.9 9.9 8.1 Acceleration to mph 0-30 1.9 sec 1.9 sec 1.8 sec 1.9 sec 0-40 2.8 2.6 2.6 2.5 0-50 3.9 3.6 3.5 3.5 0-60 5.1 4.6 4.7 4.4 0-70 6.7 6 5.9 5.4 0-80 8.5 7.5 7.4 6.7 0-90 10.6 9 9.3 8.1 0-100 13 11.1 11.3 9.7 Quarter mile 13.5 sec @ 103.6 mph 13.1 sec @ 108.4 mph 13.1 sec @ 108.3 mph 12.7 sec @ 114.2 mph Braking, 60-0 mph 125 ft 121 ft 117 ft 112 ft Lateral acceleration 0.87 g (avg) 0.87 g (avg) 0.87 g (avg) 0.90 g (avg) MT figure eight 26.4 sec @ 0.69 g (avg) 26.7 sec @ 0.67 g (avg) 26.4 sec @ 0.69 g (avg) 25.8 sec @ 0.72 g (avg) *Price includes performance-enhancing options.

You ain't lyin! I love how they try to fool people like that. Hey look what car has the SRA and still outperforms the IRS challenger hahaha

Then an IRS-equipped 'Stang would just kill 'em...

Exactly :nice:

I know that the base and GT models will carry on with the solid rear but is their any evidence to confirm that the GT500 will have it also? Maybe now is the time to give it an IRS that it needs to compete in it's price range. I just hope that Chevy doesn't put a 7.0 505HP in a Camaro with IRS, that may dethrone the GT500 as the current king of the muscle cars.

If the 2010 does actually get the 5.0 halfway through the model year as rumored, the Camaro will have its hands full, I think.

If GM does a 500+ HP F5, you can bet Ford will be doing a 600+ HP Mustang, if GM does a 600hp Camaro, Ford has the stuff for a 700hp Mustang.

Speaking of 500+ HP Camaros, it wont be the LS7, it will be a LS9 Derivative. the LS7 is on the way out due to the cheaper to produce S/C LSx engines.

If I recall my history correctly hasn't the Camaro almost always had more HP than the Mustang? Don't get me wrong I'm a hard core Mustang guy (I've already owned 4 in 10 years of driving) and know that the Mustang will compete well with the Camaro. My opinion is that Ford should try to exploit one of the new Camaro's few weaknesses....... Continue to offer more features and options and also keep the car as light as possible.An IRS, bigger standard breaks and 6 speed MT/AT would also help a great deal.

All base and GT models including the GT500, will carry on with the solid rear axle.

Although I agree that now is the time to offer an IRS, at least as an option. We're more than likely not going to see an IRS, until the all new GRWD platform launches in 2014 !

I doubt a V6 maro will be any where near a 3v. considering it has less torque and weigh's more. and someone ran it in the 1/4 and could only manage a 14.xx in the V6 maro.

I think if the 5.0 Gt can stay around 3500-3600 lbs and has 400 hp then it can take the camaro


* based on the camaro having 422 hp and weighing 3800 lbs

I agree that the equally expensive V6 Camaro vs 09' Mustang GT will be slower, but not by much.

As far as the SS is concerned who knows? The heavier, 6 speed auto, 360hp Pontiac G8 that it is based off of runs 13s. I have a feeling shaving off a couple hundred pounds, manual tranny and an added 80hp will put the stock SS in the 12.7-13.0 range. I hope i'm wrong but i'm thinking this car can be a true GT500 fighter, and not the joke that the SRT8 Challenger is.

it runs 13s? i dont think it does stock

Several magazines and web sights have the G8 running between 13.8-14.00. Those are some serious numbers and even give the current Mustang GT a run for it's money.

Just bear in mind, when the 400HP 5.0L debuts in the 2011 GT. The GT500 will also get a significant HP bump as well, perhaps up to 600HP to be exact.

Should this become reality, I really don't see how the 2010 Camaro SS with it's 422HP 6.2L, can be a true GT500 fighter. Given the GT500 has both weight, and a distinct HP advantage over the SS !

I understand the whole 11' 5.0 thing but Ford has been quiet, this may never happen. I also have total confidence from what I have seen and read about the new SS that it will destroy the GT500 in terms of handling. It has similar Brembo brakes along with the Challenger so that could all be a wash. In terms of straight line performance, anything can happen. In my opinion the GT500 isn't as fast as the specs suggest. The SRT8 Challenger and ever the previous 03-04 SVT Cobras run right with the GT500 in terms of 1/4 numbers despite producing less power and similar weight. I have a feeling that the SS will run between 12.7-13.0...... just a hunch.

I agree it is easy for Ford to quickly improve the GT500's HP but what it really needs is to go back to it's SVT roots and make it handle like a true sports car.

Although I totally agree with your statement, it's highly unlikely will see an IRS before the next major platform change, which won't take place until 2014. As in the all new GRWD platform.

OK guys it's official, GM has released the pricing of the new Camaro. I must admit it sounds like quite a bargain, i'm hoping this will keep Mustang prices down in the future.

The 300HP v6 Camaro will start at $22,995.

The 422HP SS Camaro will start at $30,995.

OK admit it guys, everyone was way off on pricing. As of right now the Camaro is the best buy in the muscle car war. I just hope Ford can give us a 400HP 5.0 for the same price as the current model or else I may be considering the competition.

You wont be able to a camaro at these prices for at least 6 months after this car finally comes out

So what, the same could be said for the 10' Mustang. I know the reason why I don't currently own an s197 Mustang is because of ADMs. I have a feeling that GM will drop them quicker than Ford did because of the crappy economy.

The GT500 carried ADMs for years, now after a few short months the SRT8 Challenger can be had at MSRP.

I dunno, alot of people really wanted the V8 Camaro to come in at 27-28k for a base car. The F5 is a really good deal, but I contend that its lost on the general public, who for the most part are interested in buying into the musclecar mystique rather than the outright performance something like the F5 offers and even then, its the stoplight to stoplight wars most will engage in.

Outgunned as it is, the GT can be had for 4-5k less and if your looking to hunt F5's most Ford dealerships will be glad to install an S/C pumping power up to around SS V8 levels (making the GT a faster car).

The IRS is enticing, but it really only matters in the ride department - I've yet to run into a twisty stretch of road that has turned into an impromptu road race with another car (well for more than 2 miles in any event).

Perhaps in your local area, that may be true. However in my local area, Challenger R/T versions are being marked up to 5k above sticker, and if you really think that GM will drop their ADM markups quicker than Ford. I wouldn't bet on it, as certain Chevy dealers are also going to exploit the retro theme towards baby boomers, just as Ford did with the S-197 Mustang.

As for the Challenger SRT8, being had at MSRP. Well never the less, we're still looking at $42,390 not including options.

Btw: GT500's can now also be had at MSRP as well, at least within my local area anyhow !

Well for starters, you didn't mention the Camaro 2SS, which starts at $34,180.00. Nor did you mention options. By the time you include all your options, that starting price of $30,992, for the Camaro 1SS will put you close to $34-37k. Which of course, is providing there isn't any addtional ADM markups, otherwise you can also expect to add another 5-7k as well.


As for your claim about the Camaro, as being the best buy in the muscle car wars. Ford will NOT allow that to happen, as Mustang has always offered the best bang for the buck performance value, and will continue to do so.

IMHO, the 2011 Mustang GT. will start at around the same price as the current model, or perhaps just slightly higher. Due to the new 400HP 5.0L along with 6spd. tranny !

The same cannot be said for the '10. The camaro has been hyped FAR more and GM boys have been waiting on this car since 2002 when the camaro died. The ADM's will be far worse than on the '10 stang

OK, for starters.......... no I don't work for GM lol. I just disagree with everyone's reasoning here. ADMs are temporary so I don't consider it a deal breaker. I think it will be similar to the 05' Mustang. Many old school Mustang guys came out of the wood work with the new stang' along with the guys how have been loyal buyers for the 3rd and 4th gen cars.

If I want a Camaro at MSRP I'll just wait. As far as options go the 2SS model is pretty much topped out not much else you can get. The 2SS comes with all the goodies (leather, premium sound etc...) I think the most expensive Camaro is a 2ss with the RS package. You guys should remember that a fully loaded GT is also in the mid $30k range. If you don't trust me check it out on Ford's web sight. Build a GT with every option you will be surprised how expensive they can get.

You guys, along with me :shame: are going to have your tails between our legs when all the major car magazines do the 10' Camaro VS. 10' Mustang comparisons.

My hope is that the 11' GT is all that everyone is building it up to be, I'd hate to be as disapointed as I am now with the little info I know about the 10' model.

umm, for the gt500 adm comment, the dealerships are STILL charging over msrp! sure you can find deals on them but there are definitely dealerships asking over...........

That maybe the case about GT500 ADM's, but it still has to do with supply and demand. I guarantee that you will be able to get 2010 mustangs without an ADM. Not all dealers believe in making a quick buck versus long term relationships with customers.

Yet the GT500 has beat the Terminator and the Challenger in track comparo's when it comes to a road course and is barely edged out by the Terminator in the quarter.

I will admit that the 03-04 Cobras are not the greatest handling Mustangs off all time. This is probably because of the poor weight distribution that it shares with the GT500. What I meant was make the next GT500 a balanced car that the 01' Cobra was. Though not nearly as powerful as the 03-09 SVTs a The 2001 Cobra is in my opinion one of the best handling Mustang of all time. The car is very tossible without plowing into the corners. It would be great for Ford to lighten up the front end with an all aluminum engine for the GT500.

Isn't the scuttlebutt for the '11 GT500 giving it an aluminum block? That'd help a bit. Then again a 7.0 32v VVT DI AL V10 putting out 500+ HP would be even better :D Ditching all that extra plumbing required for the S/C you know.

The bolded part is simply a false statement. The while the previous cobra can run close to the gt500, it clearly is the slower car. The srt-8 challenger is slower than both. Start modding and it goes even more in favor of the GT500 so I'm not sure where you get your information.

While it will be possible for the Camaro SS to beat a Gt500, stock for stock, more often then not the GT500 will win pretty easily.

I was not stating that they were faster, all i was saying is that they run with it (withing a couple tenths). By the way many track comparos do have the 03-04 Cobra actually beating the GT500 in the 1/4 mi. Look at the major auto magazines. I have driven a stock GT500 and it feels no faster than a stock 04' Cobra. I have taken my 03' to the track and have run faster times than some of the GT500s too. The point I was trying to make is that the 03' Cobra is giving up 110HP, the Challenger 75HP yet they both are at least competitive with the GT500. So for some to say the the SS has no shot at competing with the GT500 is just wrong based on power to weight numbers.

Don't get me wrong the GT500 is a better overall car than the 03' Cobra. It handles better, brakes better and of course is a more livable everyday car. Lets not forget that the GT500's bigger motor always has more room for improvement in terms of mods. I'd love to own one of these as I also find it the most attractive Mustang of all time.

Go to the track and see how much faster the GT500 is vs a 03-04 Cobra. It pretty much because a contest of who is the better driver.

how many miles on your terminator

Just hit 12,000mi. I'm not bragging because I have one it's just a common thing for Terminators to run about the same as a GT500. Check the specs in car mags like motor trend or road&track.....

thats some low miles

Yeah It's my baby. My 97' was until I bought the 03', and now that my girlfriend totaled my Legacy I been putting the 97' into daily driver duty. The miles are creeping up on that one now 90,000.....

It can be that way however, the GT500 IS faster. There is no if's and or but's. Just because someone who is a good driver in a 03-04 cobra can beat a average driven gt500 doesn't mean it is a close contest.

If the drivers are close in skill the gt500 WILL WIN everytime. Check out svtperformance.com if you don't believe me. Also, the gt500 has achieved a faster time in stock form than the previous cobra in MM&FF. The GT500 best was 12.257 at 117.180 mph while the 03-04 cobra went 12.67 at 110 mph in the same magazine done by evan smith for both (not the same day).

Even if the E.T.'s are close, the traps aren't. A Gt500 will win easily in a highway race.

Here is a link the article where i got the 1/4 mile information
http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...rformance.html

The gt500 has a problem hooking, if it could hook it'd be gone. somewhere i remmeber a magazine running a 12.3 in a Shelby..i tihnk it was MM&FF . yes it was, they were testing the SLP power pac, 12.3 stock and like 11.3 with the power pac or something

did you look at the post above yours? :jester:

To say the GT500 has traction problems is... obvious. :poke:

:rofl2:

Why does everyone compare what they do in a straight line? How boring. How about slalom or figure 8? Much better test to see which car is better.

because im pretty sure the mustang is built for a straight line, whats the point in testing something when you know its going to fail?

What's the point of building a car that's good at doing something almost always (I'll give you that 1% of the car's life spent at the track/hurtling up on-ramps) impractical/illegal? It doesn't take a genius to know great handling makes big power more fun (and more importantly, more often usable). The Mustang's muscle vs. agility balance is already leaning too far to the muscle side as is if you ask me. I don't want an S2000 by any means, but even in the worst case scenario both the '10/'11 Mustang and Camaro will be as straight-line fast as I need--whichever one handles better will be the car I'll own.

straight line performance is the most relavent aspect for the majority. It is both the cheapest and easiest form of racing to participate in (legally and illegally).

I'm of the opposite mind myself (I'll concede the safety aspect though) I find that the Mustang handles well enough for me since I can zoom through most off ramps at nearly triple the reccomended speed and easily navigate most roads at double the posted speed. Even with its simplistic chassis the car really exceeds the capability (or rather the nerve) of most drivers. The only area I feel let down is in the braking arena (easily solved though).

Fair enough, though I do see you've paid more than a little bit of attention to rounding you out own car's suspension. (Sure, the LCAs and camber kit, but don't tell me you invested in the FR3 pack strictly to hook up :jester: .)

Looks like 2010 Camaro got the 2010 Mustang's number. If both are still around for MY2011, it may be a different outcome.

That's my point, it's not 1965 anymore, we should be able to have a car that can do both.

I'm not talking about racing or doing things illegal on the roads. I want to know which one could drive through the mountains better. How often does someone simply floor it and go in a straight line? Very rarely.

People floor it and go in a straight line from red light to red light. I think that is more likely than going through the twisties at high speed, but I agree I'd rather have a car that can do both.

I'm thinking the Camaro will do some great stuff on the race track. Take a look at what GM had been able to do with cars like the Cobalt SS, G8 GT and CTS-V. Both of these cars are probably without a doubt the best complete performance cars of their respective segments not to mention a bragain compared to it's competition.

Come On It's still a Camaro...

http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/4275/13232/264719.jpg

Chicks don't dig the bowtie...

... but women do! :grin: