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Quote:

Originally Posted by 97GT03SVT (Post 5723743)

I can agree with most of what you are saying but there will be a Camaro produced. I think GM is at the point of no return the car has been fully developed. The issues with suppliers and the government may postpone and limit the numbers of the Camaro but this car will still see the light of day.

My main argument with the Camaro fan boys is that they are talking about future plans to a car that has not even seen production. I think all those plans are being put on hold of canceled all together. Though I am an enthusiast and don't care about Ford or GM's bottom line when I buy a car I think GM's cost for the Camaro is way more than that of the Mustang. In the end I think the Mustang will have more wiggle room for future development, the Camaro's saving grace at this point is that it gets engine tech from the Corvette and it is a little more advanced with global RWD platforms than Ford for the time being.

I believe they were talking about the Gen V small blocks, in which was mentioned as a future replacement for the Corvette, and then eventually would make their way into the Camaro. Which I don't see as happening to begin with, as such a high horsepower motor would only result in a significant price increase anyhow. Not to mention that Camaro would also be approaching Corvette territory as well.

However due to the recent bailout of GM and Chrysler along with the conditions for producing more fuel efficient vehicles. I'm afraid the handwriting is on the wall, as the days of high horsepower V8's are once again, slowly drawing to a close. Therefore I totally agree that future V8 programs, such as the Gen. V small block will more than likely result in being canceled altogether.

Horsepower is nice to have, but I know from experience that horsepower breaks parts. Give me 450+ foot-pounds of torque, a good 6 speed with a .60 ratio 6th gear and a 4.30 ring & pinion and some good tires to get it to the ground.... oh yeah! But without good metalurgy, even torque will break things. If the Camaro gets the same bad iron that their fragile pick up ring & pinion gets, the camaro will be in the shop more than on the highway!

Quote:

Originally Posted by m05fastbackGT (Post 5723848)

OMG Rich, after reading this post. I nearly fell off my chair, as I couldn't stop from :rofl2:so hard. And now that I think back, most of the cars I've seen broken down on the highway, were indeed a GM product with it's hood up. As a matter of fact, from now on. If whenever I happen to be having a really bad day, all I'll need to do is read over your post, and I'll be rolling on the floor in no time.

I'm also going save a copy of your post, in my documents folder as well. :D

Rocky, it was all true too which makes it that much funnier! I have a friend here in town who was a die-hard GM fanatic that finally got a belly full of GM nonsense and switched to Ford after much persuasion. Now he only wants Fords. In fact we came up with a slogan; " Friends don't let friends drive GM !"

Quote:

Originally Posted by 97GT03SVT (Post 5723562)

Wow I sure missed a lot! I'm just going to be honest here no intend to offend anybody.

Ok here is my opinion of the last 2 weeks or so of debate of the Mustang VS Camaro.

1. I hate hearing inflated "details" of a car that is not even in production yet. Notice how the new Mustang and even the Challenger R/T have actually been driven and tested by auto journalists yet the Camaro that was released to the public far earlier still has no concrete data or numbers. I think the Camaro fan boys need to keep this in mind since they may have to wait even longer for the Camaro to come out. When this car does come out, the ADMs will ensure this car will cost more than the "slightly more" than a Mustang GT cost. Concerning the new tech coming out, unlike Ford... GM is expected to cancel more and more future programs like the future Corvette, the G8 and others....including engine tech. I feel the Camaro's already impressive 422hp motor will be all it sees for a long time. As far as better MPGs go I agree it will get better MPGs in 10' but keep in mind that Ford's 3.5 and 5.0 will also offer better MPGs along with more competitive HP and 6 speeds like GM. I'm guessing that it will equal or exceed MPG numbers and fall a little short in HP numbers.

2. I personally don't agree with how some comments got off track to bashing GM and import brands for that matter. GM, like Ford has upped it's overall quality by huge strides and should be given credit for that. To bash on a GM from 10 years ago is about the same as a Ford from the same time period. It is unfair to claim that Ford had been much better than GM or that it is now. I think both the new Malibu and Fusion are awesome cars and way better than the car they replaced.

3. I am a huge Mustang fan but I am not too happy about the 10' Mustang. Perhaps the looks will grow on me but I feel it looks too similar to the previous model and the few major changes they did make I don't like (the whole rear of the car). I do feel that they did a great job improving the interior though. Ford knew as early as 06' and should have known in the back of their minds that competition was coming, yet what they gave us is something that is not up to par with the new competition. I feel there is no excuse why Ford did not put in an IRS, 6 speed and the new engine for the 10' model year! The 10' Mustang will get bashed in every magazine comparison and should. The Mustang GT is going to be the slowest V8 pony car of the 10' model year I can't hope for 11' to come soon enough. I must admit though awesome job on the GT500.

so in conclusion I sadly must agree that the Camaro is going to be the better overall car for the 10' model year. I thought Ford's saving grace was going to be that the Mustang was going to be much cheaper, but it isn't. I say shame on Ford for giving us another year of the crappy base model V6... They give the Fusion a refresh after just 4 years while the Mustang waits an extra year. The 10 Fusion offers both 6 speed MT/AT and the new 3.5 yet the "new" Mustang gets carry over engines. This just proves that Ford did not give it's best effort for the 10' Mustang like it did for 05'.

I guess with the crappy economy I should wait for Ford's real answer to the Camaro, the next new gen Mustang. I guess it isn't fair to compare a recently reworked 6 year old platform to one that is brand new. I'm crossing my fingers that Ford can give us an IRS and more power over the years.

With all due respect, I feel that what I say in a negative way about GM and their products reflects what I heard coming from the mouthes of GM reps, GM repair seminar teachers, and salesmen on the sales floor for the last 36 years! And a lot of it had to do with quality issues Ford had back in the late 60's-early 70's and made it sound like these issues haven't changed! I refer to it as GM propaganda and it still goes on till this day! And it has been successful too because it forced Ford to improve their fleet and advertize "Have you driven a Ford lately?" as a new market approach! So forgive me if I sound hatefull towards GM, but in my book ,they earned it! What's good for the goose is good for the gander!

Quote:

Originally Posted by red pony (Post 5724110)

I know Rich, that's exactly why I nearly fell of my chair. Because after reading over your post, the first thing that came to mind, was seeing all those GM vehicles sitting on the the highway, broken down through the years lol. As for your slogan "Friends don't let friends drive GM." If your open to making some new friends, I'd surely be very interested in becoming one of them. :cheers:

Btw; did you hear that GM has officially delayed the launch for the 2010 Camaro ? In the meantime, here's the thread link posted below ;)

http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showthread.php?t=476446

Quote:

Originally Posted by m05fastbackGT (Post 5725165)

Btw; did you hear that GM has officially delayed the launch for the 2010 Camaro ? In the meantime, here's the thread link posted below ;)

http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showthread.php?t=476446

Yeah I did! I think it's a blunder on their part that they didn't get the Camaro to production by now. That car should have been on the streets and people see that they were taken yet again! All this wait for just 1 more lawn ornament! Future W.V. mullet-heads need more front yard decorations ! "That would look good sittin' in front of the trailor! :rofl2:Cats crawling in and out the 1 open winder..... grass growin' up to the door handles.... it's truely a thing of beauty to behold!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by m05fastbackGT (Post 5725160)

No problem! It's about an hours drive to where you are. When the weather breaks, we should pick a half way point to talk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by m05fastbackGT (Post 5725165)

Btw; did you hear that GM has officially delayed the launch for the 2010 Camaro ? In the meantime, here's the thread link posted below ;)

http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showthread.php?t=476446

Yeah where is Truth411 at now?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Quote:

Originally Posted by stangfoeva (Post 5725480)

Yeah where is Truth411 at now?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Off somewhere licking his wounds. :crying: :drunk::banghead: :rant: :capture:

I just got back from the New England Auto Show in Providence and I got to say that both the new Mustang and Camaro are some awesome looking rides.

I was a little skeptical of the 10' Mustang when I saw the pics but I loved it in person. Overall I think it is a great refresh, though it was not as dramatic a refresh as I'd hoped it still comes off as very new looking. The car I saw was a GT with the new amber color with premium interior. As far as the rear of the car goes, it's not as bad in person as the pics make it look but I do prefer the rear of the 05'. I think if they thinned out the black plastic along the back bumper it would look better. The front end is way better and the interior is the best I think I've ever seen in a Ford vehicle (the new Fusion sport would probably tie) I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that the rumors are true for the engine upgrades... it's probably the only reason I wouldn't buy the 10' over the Camaro and Challenger.

I know there are a lot of Camaro haters here but I have to say that overall I'm impressed with it's overall look. I think Ford should consider "halo" head lights in the next Mustang it looks awesome! This car looks bad *** in black. I also think it's pretty cool that you can get the RS package on the V6 model, it gives the car a pretty polished look. It looks more agressive than the Mustang but also bulkier. In fact I say it downright looks very similar to the Challenger in profile, stance and overall size. I do like the more pronouced "hips" of the Camaro a little more... but I got to say the interior is as hideous in person as it is in pictures.

The Ford reps had no comment on the 5.0... they didn't even seem to know what I was talking about when I asked about it.

I posted this in the 2010 forum, but I think that 400hp might be a stretch in 2011. Here is why:
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/12/d...ast/#continued

The all-new 5.0-liter AJ-V8 Gen III engines – in 385bhp/380lb-ft of torque naturally aspirated

Jag's engine is also direct injected.

I could still live with those numbers, 0-60 in 4.7 (in a car that is also 500lb+ more).
Anyone know what rpm the hp #s come in at? If under 7000 there is still a little hope.

Oh and also combined 25mpg in the jag. That around 21city and 29hwy in a larger sedan.

This is probably the only true evidence I have seen of a 5.0. Even though Ford sold Jaguar I'm guessing they still have some kind of share that they would share engine resources in some form. I agree that this means that the 5.0 probably won't see 400HP... at least not initially. I bet the 400HP 5.0 is going to be a tweaked version for an SE like a Boss or Mach1. If they can get 350+ HP from an ecoboost 6 I'd love to see what they can do with this thing.

I'm a little troubled that this was designed and built by Jaguar. This really does not confirm it will be in a Mustang. Perhaps a highly modified version but then again we never saw the Jaguar 4.2 in any Ford products as far as I can remember. I think if we do get this in a Ford they will cheapen it. Fords need to be low priced while Jaguar sells premium automobiles.

This is promising news though I doubt it will be faster than the Camaro. I'd be happy if it can at least run with the Camaro and get better MPGs and cost less. I also read a report that Ford will have 6 speed AT/MT in all vehicles by 2012. This all seems promising, now all we need is an IRS and we are in business. I hope all goes well in the coming years as it looks as if I'm going to be a cheerleader for the next couple years. I'm hoping when I'm ready for my next purchase we will have a revolutionary Mustang.

i think its possible with a higher compression ratio and redline. the 5.0 cammer can maker that HP and it is an older engine

Quote:

Originally Posted by red pony (Post 5724091)

The reason the 3rd/4th gen F-bodies got such a weak rearend was due to regulatory compliance. If GM had used something on the order of the 8.8 in the Mustang, it would have placed it in a differnet catagory of some sort. As you've mentioned a better stronger (mass neutral) set of components would have been ideal with the rear axle, but that probably was way too expensive given the catagory the F-bod was manufactuered to sell in at the time.