Vermillion06

Who can dispute that? Such a rational, mature, thoughtful argument! Are you on the the 7th grade debate team?

And I can only dream of having such incredible eyesight that can definitively judge dimensions and compensate for perspective and camera lens distortion in a tiny picture on the internet !

Ethanjbeau

I hate to make this political but aren't the import taxes on a 2 seater more than a 4? I remember reading that somewhere. So if that's true it would make sense to make it like that.

stupidgenius36

If you can't see any of the dimensions I just mentioned, then maybe you really are blind. What is it about a flat board with a small pillow attached that looks comfortable to you? I'm not seein' it...

Von Bek

Comfortable or not, if my ten year old nephew can't fit in the back seat of my 07, I really don't think we have any room to talk about this back seat. Now, he can actually get back there, but has to sit kinda across the back seats instead of sitting forward. I even had my sister back there over Thanksgiving. Talk about hilarious.

rhumb

Probably the +2 part of the Subayota's 2+2 configuration has more to do with insurance reasons and possibly import duties than any real attempt at a truly useable back seat. Porsche has done this for eons with their 911, even if it was about 1973 that a fully limbed human sat in the back of one.

I wouldn't consider the Subayota's as direct pony car challenger but rather, as something midway between a hardtop Miata and a true pony car. The Hyundai Genesis Coupe is much more a true oriental pony car competitor, especially if Hyundai grows a pair and finally just plunks their 5.0 into the thing.

Zastava_101

Scion FR-S first drive

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...s_first_drive/

jsaylor

I am very interested in this little car, the return of a small, rwd performance oriented coupe is long overdue IMHO. That said, I really worry about the level of bang for the buck this car will (or won't) offer. Toyota has always had issues with performance coupes in their lineup wearing price tags that are a bit dear to be kind. Rumors seems to be indicating that the Subaru is going to start around 22k and that this will chime in somewhere below that. To be blunt, if the Subaru rumors are correct that is too much IMO and, if the Scion is to avoid that same pitfall, it really needs to start around 20k or possible even a bit below that given the level of equipment, size, driveline, etc. or it will present as pricey for the segment.

Just my two cents.

I think people really overstate how small the back seat in the Mustang actually is. I recently rode in the backseat of a 2012 GT just to see how unrealistic it is and, to be honest, it was no worse than several C segment sedans of relatively recent manufacture and not enormously worse than my in-laws Lincoln LS to be perfectly. Entry into the car was more eventful, but once back there it wasn't nearly as bad as some portray IMO.

I'm not saying that the Mustang is a limo by any stretch, the reality is that the C segment cars mentioned above and the Lincoln LS are all more than a little shy on rear seat room given their role as a foor door car, but it seems to me that the moment any car grows a second pair of doors it automatically becomes more 'practical' in this regard whether it actually is or not. And, not surprisingly, the opposite seems to hold true as well. For example, I personally cannot imagine a ten year old in the history of earth short of Minute Bol and Shaq being uncomfortable in the back of a current production Mustang GT. I understand that everybody has their own opinion on this, comfort is a subjective measurement, but I think we have developed a tendency for hyperbole here that seems to know no limits.

That said, I do agree that people complaining about the Scion's back seat and trunk space are completely missing he point, IMO this is a bit like complaining about the lack of wool carpeting in a Lotus Elise.

Zastava_101

According to Motor Trend the base price for Scion will be close to $25,000.

jsaylor

Actually, I meant to say 25k for the Subaru.....22k is one of the more common 'guesses' I've heard for the Scion but that is apparently nothing more than an uneducated guess.

If the Subaru was 22k to start I think that would actually be fine while 25k for the Subaru is, IMO, too much. Likewise, I think the Scion really needs to start at something like 19,999.00 to make a good argument. The Miata starts at 25k with very good interior quality for the price range, a decent options list for the segment, and it's a convertible.

Maybe Mazda needs to consider a hardtop version of the Miata with a 2.5L I4.

Zastava_101

I think I would rather take Impreza WRX.

RWD and Wisconsin winters don't go together too well.

8WOOD

I think it's a sick car and will be a lot of fun at autoX. However, you are not getting much for the buck. But I'm sure people will be turboing these babies up, and they'll be very quick. I think they are going to have a HUGE success in the sale of these things. I'd get the Subaru if they put the AWD system in it, that thing would be amazing!

hi5.0

I find this car interesting - despite the looks. Wouldn't mind picking up the BR-Z version in the future once they start turning up in the used car market. Unfortunately, $25k seems to be around the starting price for both Scion and Subaru versions - $27k is a number thrown around for a "premium" level BR-Z. Maybe this car could "convince" Mazda to finally build a small lightweight performance coupe derived from the MX-5/Miata platform.
IIRC, the Toyobaru twins cannot fit the Subaru AWD system due to the flat-4's engine placement in the chassis and attendant space limitations, plus it would skew the F/R weight distribution.

Ethanjbeau

The Miata is scheduled for a complete redesign with a new skyactiv chassis and engine/transmission for the 2014 model year. Mazda claims it'll drop about 200-300lbs bringing it to about 2100lbs.

It should be good!

future9er24

That sounds absolutely fantastic

Ministang

I went to my local Subaru dealer yesterday, put a deposit down, and ordered a BRZ. The deposit is fully refundable if I don't want it for any reason at any point in time, but I'm really looking forward to it. The past 10-15 years I've really grown to appreciate small lightweight tossable cars, and the BRZ checks almost all the right boxes for me (except for torque). My wife would prefer that I get rid of the Mini, Mustang, or Forester when I get the BRZ, but I haven't decided which one (or two) if any, I'll get rid of, I have 2-3 months to decide.

Knight

That's an easy choice, drop the mini. RWD > FWD

Ministang

That is certainly one (valid) way to look at it. Of course if gas prices continue to climb through the summer, another way to look at it would be 20 mpg with the Mustang vs 33 mpg with the Mini (as high as 40 mpg on trips). Another possibility would be to keep all of them for awhile and see what gets left parked in the garage the most after picking up the BRZ. If I would sell my '08 GT I'd probably buy another SN95/new Edge Mustang for cheap to tinker around with, or wait a couple of years and pick up a 50th anniversary Mustang when they are released.

bob

Not that I'd get over my Mustang addiction to get one, but I'd really like to see Hyundai do this.