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Need advice on 2nd Toy...

Old 9/8/15, 09:41 AM
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Need advice on 2nd Toy...

Those of you who know me, know that I've always been an import guy, hence the username. I came from a lineage of Acuras, Hondas, Infinitis, Nissans, Mazdas, and Toyotas. My cars of the past included (in order): Integra, Civic, RX7 tt, G35 coupe, and 370Z. I've been blessed with all those cars, and as car guys/gals, you all know, we miss all our prior cars. LOL.

That being said, I might have a chance in the near future to procure a FOURTH vehicle, purely as a toy. Don't worry, I'm not getting rid of Marilyn (yet, that is ) or Tori. I just wanted to add another toy.

Budget is of course the end all-be all. Ideally, I'd like to spend 50k or more on another toy. That will be coming... For now, I think my budget is around 30k. So I'm looking at used. I'm factoring in looks, fun to drive, reliability, and lastly, moddability. The latter, (I promise) I won't be going too far out. The most I'd do with this vehicle is wheels, springs, intake, and of course exhaust.

Right now, I'm thinking about these top 3:

03-04 SVT Cobra vert/coupe, a Saleen, or even a Mach 1. - I've always loved those Termi's...from day 1. There's a few out there that look to be unmolested. It's another chance for me to get another Mustang. I'm not really interested in a 05-09 Shelby, etc. Looks just don't do it for me.



09-13 Infiniti G37 Convertible. - Yes, my love for the G has surfaced again. I'm a fan of the VQ and nissan's in general. I loved my G and Z from before... and now I'm thinking a convertible. Wife and I always loved verts. So it would probably be a Sport 6MT, of course. They're not the fastest, I get that. But 330hp is no slouch, and I get quality and looks and luxury, and still fit kids in the back.



06-08 Honda S2000. - Ah yes, the Honda roadster. Only seats 2...but man, I remember testing these before. I was SO close to buying one a few years back, but got my 370Z instead. Maybe I should have gone the S2000 route. LOL. They're not fast...they're vastly underpowered, but man are they fun to drive. Who knows, maybe swap out a LS or Coyote engine in there??? Again, the benefit here is reliability and being bullet proof.



Any thoughts on the above? How about any other vehicle I should consider? I'm really not looking into German used...not because they're not fun to drive, but because of the reliability. If I go German, it'd be new/lease. 3 years. You don't want to own a German car outside of warranty. I love Audi's though... but 50k for an Audi? when I can own a GT350? I think not.

Thanks for you help in advance.
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Old 9/8/15, 10:08 AM
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well out of the 3 pics above, it's a no brainer for me. The Mustang. I am also a fan of that generation of cobra. with some dish wheels, exhaust and hood they looks amazing! I think they are truly a classic body style that will endure. they are compact and easy to work on also. With an exhaust they sound great too.

so my vote goes to the mustang.
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Old 9/8/15, 10:32 AM
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You should be able to get a 03-04 Cobra vert for around 20K if you are willing to buy one with 30k-40k miles on it. I saw a REALLY nice white vert on ebay last week that didn't sell for 21k.
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Old 9/8/15, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by codeman94 View Post
You should be able to get a 03-04 Cobra vert for around 20K if you are willing to buy one with 30k-40k miles on it. I saw a REALLY nice white vert on ebay last week that didn't sell for 21k.
Your budget puts you in '07-'09 GT500 range I think.

I've given thought to a second toy Mustang but my budget is low $20's.

One of the guys that helps run a local cruise recently sold his '67 Goat and bought a 7K mile '04 Mach 1 in pristine condition for around $20K.

I'm seeing '08 Bullitts in the 20K mileage range and under around my low $20K budget, and that'd be my first choice. Recently I spotted a "must sell" Bullitt in great condition for $17K but it was black. A Bullitt must be HG.


Either a Mach 1 or Bullitt would make me happy. I'm guessing that I'd have to do it before the S550 is available in those models. Who knows how that'll affect the values of the older examples.
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Old 9/8/15, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by TripleBlack14 View Post
Your budget puts you in '07-'09 GT500 range I think.
Oops....didn't realize you disqualified the early S197 Shelbys. Sorry
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Old 9/8/15, 12:02 PM
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My car before my Mustang was a 2007 S2000. They are not underpowered, just don't have a lot of torque. However, they are incomparable driver's cars. If I had garage space and gobs of money I would have kept it. I still go on drives with my S2000 friends, so I see my old car now and then.
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Old 9/8/15, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by DarrenGT View Post
well out of the 3 pics above, it's a no brainer for me. The Mustang. I am also a fan of that generation of cobra. with some dish wheels, exhaust and hood they looks amazing! I think they are truly a classic body style that will endure. they are compact and easy to work on also. With an exhaust they sound great too.

so my vote goes to the mustang.
Thanks Darren. The pics were just random "good" ones I found on the web. I wanted to at least find all 3 so that folks had some basis of comparison, lol.

I just LOVE that gen/shape Cobra. You are correct with your observations. When I made my Kepner Trego chart for these cars, easy to work with, classic, etc... those were all on there as well.

What's surprising is actually how "common" they are if one were to really look for one. Hmmmm...

Originally Posted by codeman94 View Post
You should be able to get a 03-04 Cobra vert for around 20K if you are willing to buy one with 30k-40k miles on it. I saw a REALLY nice white vert on ebay last week that didn't sell for 21k.
Cody, that's good to know. I thought I had to pay 25k or more Can I get in one for 20ishk? That would be ideal. Then I could use the spare cash to INSTANTLY go ape$hit on mods. Oh crap, didn't I promise in my first post above that I wouldn't go overboard on mods this time? LOL

The other part of the equation that I am debating (hopefully you and others can help shed some light on this) is should I get a bone stock cobra, a slightly modded cobra, or a heavily modded cobra? There are pros and cons to each, obviously. Your thoughts?

Originally Posted by TripleBlack14 View Post
Your budget puts you in '07-'09 GT500 range I think.

I've given thought to a second toy Mustang but my budget is low $20's.

One of the guys that helps run a local cruise recently sold his '67 Goat and bought a 7K mile '04 Mach 1 in pristine condition for around $20K.

I'm seeing '08 Bullitts in the 20K mileage range and under around my low $20K budget, and that'd be my first choice. Recently I spotted a "must sell" Bullitt in great condition for $17K but it was black. A Bullitt must be HG.


Either a Mach 1 or Bullitt would make me happy. I'm guessing that I'd have to do it before the S550 is available in those models. Who knows how that'll affect the values of the older examples.
Originally Posted by TripleBlack14 View Post
Oops....didn't realize you disqualified the early S197 Shelbys. Sorry
Thanks Tom. Yeah, sorry, I dunno, just something about the 05-09 that doesn't do it for me. On top of that, I think the main reason why I wouldn't get it is because it's too similar to my 12. At least with the 03-04 Termi, it would be unique enough and different enough from my current.

Originally Posted by tukatz View Post
My car before my Mustang was a 2007 S2000. They are not underpowered, just don't have a lot of torque. However, they are incomparable driver's cars. If I had garage space and gobs of money I would have kept it. I still go on drives with my S2000 friends, so I see my old car now and then.
I appreciate the input Tom... so are you recommending the S2000 then? Were they easy to work on? Reliable? Fun? Thing of it is, dang, they are still so expensive. I'm still paying 25k or more for a piece that's unmolested and relatively low miles. ugh....
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Old 9/8/15, 12:53 PM
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Need advice on 2nd Toy...

S2000 owner checking in. I agree with tukatz. Remember they are (generally) less than 2900 lbs so 236 hp goes a long way.

I recommend this route if you would put reliability over moddability.

If you go the S2000 route, you might want to consider other years also, based on your plan to mod. For example, if I wanted to do the LS swap, I'd pick any clean high mileage one since it's cheaper and you'll be replacing everything except the body and interior. If you want to do significant mods short of that (like FI), you'd want an 06+ because previous years can't be reflashed short of replacing the computer. And if you want to leave it stock, I'd find a CR or one with an OEM hard top as they are much more desirable.

Also for stock versions the 00-03 have a vastly different character than the 04+.

Also be aware that 06+ is drive by wire throttle which may or may not offend the purist. It does add stability control though... I've never driven one of the DBW models so I can't say much more than that.

One last comment: Of course do what you want, but I would hesitate to mod a "pristine specimen" of an S2000. They are pretty special in stock form. I bought mine with an intake and exhaust and often consider buying the parts to return it to stock. I'd buy another cheap thrashed one before doing a big irreversible mod on mine.
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Old 9/8/15, 01:26 PM
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I never did my own work on my S2000, so I don't know how easy they are to work on. They are definitely reliable (they are Hondas) and tons of fun to drive. I ran mine in autocross (take a look at bscc.net and let the gallery scroll and you will see a blue S2000 with me in it) and took it on road trips as well. That said, they are a bit harsh on rougher pavement and are noisier than a Mustang. That is why I switched. I found I could have fun and be comfortable at the same time in the Mustang.
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Old 9/8/15, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by berzerk_1980 View Post
S2000 owner checking in. I agree with tukatz. Remember they are (generally) less than 2900 lbs so 236 hp goes a long way.

I recommend this route if you would put reliability over moddability.

If you go the S2000 route, you might want to consider other years also, based on your plan to mod. For example, if I wanted to do the LS swap, I'd pick any clean high mileage one since it's cheaper and you'll be replacing everything except the body and interior. If you want to do significant mods short of that (like FI), you'd want an 06+ because previous years can't be reflashed short of replacing the computer. And if you want to leave it stock, I'd find a CR or one with an OEM hard top as they are much more desirable.

Also for stock versions the 00-03 have a vastly different character than the 04+.

Also be aware that 06+ is drive by wire throttle which may or may not offend the purist. It does add stability control though... I've never driven one of the DBW models so I can't say much more than that.

One last comment: Of course do what you want, but I would hesitate to mod a "pristine specimen" of an S2000. They are pretty special in stock form. I bought mine with an intake and exhaust and often consider buying the parts to return it to stock. I'd buy another cheap thrashed one before doing a big irreversible mod on mine.
Thanks for the input sir. So you currently have/own one? What year? Sounds like you're pretty happy with it.

Yeah, I was just generally speaking, if I were to heavily mod it...doubtful though. And going FI on these VTEC motors, doesn't really gain you much, unless you're always on the high end of the RPM. I think if I did get an S2K, it would be wheels and intake probably only. The rest can be left stock.

I didn't know about the drive by wire improvements for 06+. For me, I don't care/mind either way. I guarantee it will be fun to drive regardless.

Also, good points on the value of stock form. Whatever toy car I get next will also be babied heavily. If I put 1500 miles on Marilyn this year, imagine dividing that by 2 and splitting it with another toy car.
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Old 9/8/15, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by DarrenGT View Post
well out of the 3 pics above, it's a no brainer for me. The Mustang. I am also a fan of that generation of cobra. with some dish wheels, exhaust and hood they looks amazing! I think they are truly a classic body style that will endure. they are compact and easy to work on also. With an exhaust they sound great too.
so my vote goes to the mustang.
^^Exactly what Darren said. No question about it.
Just make sure, as I'm sure you will, that you get a clean, unmolested Termi, as most are probably modded and what not. But,..yes, my vote goes towards the Mustang.
Good luck bro!
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Old 9/8/15, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Stage_3 View Post
^^Exactly what Darren said. No question about it.
Just make sure, as I'm sure you will, that you get a clean, unmolested Termi, as most are probably modded and what not. But,..yes, my vote goes towards the Mustang.
Good luck bro!
Man... are you both one and the same person, for real? hahahaha

Seriously though, the allure of a 03/04 Termi is very enticing. I know it's pure opinion (as my wife thinks the opposite), but I feel that the 99-04 body style is one of my favorites of all time. True, the interior could use some quality upgrades, but man...that exterior shape, etc. It screams pure Amurrrricca..... to me at least. I love it.

As far as it being modded, I dunno. Say it was tastefully modded, by someone of good character especially if I could verify? That would be doable. For example, if I sold Marilyn to one of you on here, would you hesitate? I hope not. LOL. But anyways, you know what I mean.
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Old 9/8/15, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by FromZto5 View Post
Man... are you both one and the same person, for real? hahahaha
As far as it being modded, I dunno. Say it was tastefully modded, by someone of good character especially if I could verify? That would be doable. For example, if I sold Marilyn to one of you on here, would you hesitate? I hope not. LOL. But anyways, you know what I mean.
HA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
I'm not picking it just because it's a Mustang, as I have no allegiance to any one car brand. I'm a fan of them all.
If it was already modded, that's not a bad thing. Those cars are stupid fast when mods are done right and look good doing it. Oh,...............and I wouldn't hesitate to buy Marilyn at all. The pictures say it all.

Are you looking to buy from a private sale or dealership Burton? Now's a good time to buy a muscle car/sports car. Winter is coming and they want to "get rid" of overhead, so to speak.
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Old 9/8/15, 05:40 PM
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Need advice on 2nd Toy...

Originally Posted by FromZto5 View Post
Thanks for the input sir. So you currently have/own one? What year? Sounds like you're pretty happy with it.
I have an 04. I was going to sell it after I got my 14 Mustang GT and couldn't bring myself to do it. Then I was going to trade it for an 03 Terminator convertible and couldn't do that either.

Originally Posted by FromZto5 View Post
Yeah, I was just generally speaking, if I were to heavily mod it...doubtful though. And going FI on these VTEC motors, doesn't really gain you much, unless you're always on the high end of the RPM. I think if I did get an S2K, it would be wheels and intake probably only. The rest can be left stock.

Well I do admit it feels slow after driving the Mustang. But that wears off after about 10 minutes and then there's just something about the overall package that is difficult to communicate. But where I'm going with this is it could definitely use a little more torque and you will always be in the high rpm range. Especially with the 00-03 with the 9k redline. I could see adding some torque with a turbo or something.

Originally Posted by FromZto5 View Post
I didn't know about the drive by wire improvements for 06+. For me, I don't care/mind either way. I guarantee it will be fun to drive regardless.

Also, good points on the value of stock form. Whatever toy car I get next will also be babied heavily. If I put 1500 miles on Marilyn this year, imagine dividing that by 2 and splitting it with another toy car.
Well I hear you, I bought mine in 2005 with 13k miles and I have 24k miles on it now.

On the DBW, some consider it an improvement. I suppose I should withhold my opinion until I drive one but it seems to be in conflict with the "driver's car" persona that Honda tried to evoke with the S2000.

There are drawbacks to this car to be considered as well. The lack of torque, cramped space, harsh ride, lack of features and complexities with convertibles are also major considerations. It pretty much can only be a toy; I couldn't imagine dealing with these issues in everyday life.

And on the Terminator: It was fun, but in stock form it was about as fast and less satisfying than my 14 GT. I felt the fit and finish were embarrassing, and my wife was like "WTF is wrong with this clutch?" So I felt it was not different enough from my GT to be worth having as a second toy. But if you're going to mod, all bets are off.

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Old 9/8/15, 06:28 PM
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My S2000 was my daily driver and I took it on a month long 8,000 mile road trip as well; part of the time with my wife. We travel light but I compensated for the small trunk space with 2 Roadster Valets. They are a sort of garment bag that hangs from the headrest down behind the seat. One could hold.about five shirts and a couple of pairs of trousers. I put about 62k miles on it. The '04 and later is definitely more tractable.
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Old 9/8/15, 07:26 PM
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Need advice on 2nd Toy...

Originally Posted by tukatz View Post
My S2000 was my daily driver and I took it on a month long 8,000 mile road trip as well; part of the time with my wife. We travel light but I compensated for the small trunk space with 2 Roadster Valets. They are a sort of garment bag that hangs from the headrest down behind the seat. One could hold.about five shirts and a couple of pairs of trousers. I put about 62k miles on it. The '04 and later is definitely more tractable.
Nice tip about the roadster valet.

I was perhaps being a little hyperbolic :-) It's not that I couldn't imagine using it as a daily driver, but it would be hard to rationalize with a TSX and Mustang in the garage as well.

I have driven the S2000 as a daily in the past. And it's not like you COULDN'T take it to Costco... But if you did so and bought a case of toilet paper you'd have to break it into individual rolls and stuff them into every nook and cranny you could find.

Again, it's possible in overstating the functional utility concerns. I have a tendency toward the dramatic.
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Old 9/8/15, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by berzerk_1980 View Post
Nice tip about the roadster valet.
They came from a company (on-line) called Roadster Solutions.
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Old 9/9/15, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by tukatz View Post
My S2000 was my daily driver and I took it on a month long 8,000 mile road trip as well; part of the time with my wife. We travel light but I compensated for the small trunk space with 2 Roadster Valets. They are a sort of garment bag that hangs from the headrest down behind the seat. One could hold.about five shirts and a couple of pairs of trousers. I put about 62k miles on it. The '04 and later is definitely more tractable.
wow... 8000 mile trip with your wife? You guys are hard-core.

I don't think I'd ever take it on a trip like that, I'd take our SUV. LOL. But yeah, the purpose of this vehicle would be purely recreational, date nights, car shows, no tracking, etc. Nice to know that it will last 62k or more, trouble-free.

Originally Posted by berzerk_1980 View Post
Nice tip about the roadster valet.

I was perhaps being a little hyperbolic :-) It's not that I couldn't imagine using it as a daily driver, but it would be hard to rationalize with a TSX and Mustang in the garage as well.

I have driven the S2000 as a daily in the past. And it's not like you COULDN'T take it to Costco... But if you did so and bought a case of toilet paper you'd have to break it into individual rolls and stuff them into every nook and cranny you could find.

Again, it's possible in overstating the functional utility concerns. I have a tendency toward the dramatic.
The toilet paper roll visual is having me I can just picture my wife on the passenger seat giving me the glare of death, as I make her hold all our Costco/Sams Club purchases.
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Old 9/9/15, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by berzerk_1980 View Post
I have an 04. I was going to sell it after I got my 14 Mustang GT and couldn't bring myself to do it. Then I was going to trade it for an 03 Terminator convertible and couldn't do that either.


Well I do admit it feels slow after driving the Mustang. But that wears off after about 10 minutes and then there's just something about the overall package that is difficult to communicate. But where I'm going with this is it could definitely use a little more torque and you will always be in the high rpm range. Especially with the 00-03 with the 9k redline. I could see adding some torque with a turbo or something.


Well I hear you, I bought mine in 2005 with 13k miles and I have 24k miles on it now.

On the DBW, some consider it an improvement. I suppose I should withhold my opinion until I drive one but it seems to be in conflict with the "driver's car" persona that Honda tried to evoke with the S2000.

There are drawbacks to this car to be considered as well. The lack of torque, cramped space, harsh ride, lack of features and complexities with convertibles are also major considerations. It pretty much can only be a toy; I couldn't imagine dealing with these issues in everyday life.

And on the Terminator: It was fun, but in stock form it was about as fast and less satisfying than my 14 GT. I felt the fit and finish were embarrassing, and my wife was like "WTF is wrong with this clutch?" So I felt it was not different enough from my GT to be worth having as a second toy. But if you're going to mod, all bets are off.
You know what, you have a VERY good point about the Termi fit/finish. I do recall it being very bad. Was it THAT bad though? Like were things rattling left and right, etc? And what did you mean about the clutch? It was too tight? too loose?

And in stock form, you think the stock 14GT is faster/more fun to drive than an 03 Termi? I'd probably mod the Termi... but not sure how far I'll go.
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Old 9/9/15, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by FromZto5 View Post
You know what, you have a VERY good point about the Termi fit/finish. I do recall it being very bad. Was it THAT bad though? Like were things rattling left and right, etc? And what did you mean about the clutch? It was too tight? too loose?

And in stock form, you think the stock 14GT is faster/more fun to drive than an 03 Termi? I'd probably mod the Termi... but not sure how far I'll go.
On the clutch it took way too much effort for her. After having driven my new car she was a little surprised.

On the fit and finish, it was a convertible so yeah, a lot of rattles. On the quality, remember I was trying to convince myself to trade the S2000 for it. Coming from imports I wasn't ready for "American interiors". It seems like on Japanese cars, if you pay $20k, every piece feels like a $20k car. If you pay $40k, every piece feels like a $40k car. But on the Cobra, it felt like a $40k engine in a $20k car. My current Mustang is a little imbalanced like this (cheap door panels for example) but the Cobra was really noticeable (cheap looking dash and doors with cheap looking trim).
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