Serious Reservations, doom for the 05?
8/2/04, 11:13 PM
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
OK, you guys win:-). I'll give a hard look when it hits the dealership floor, maybe it's a car that has to grow on you, just don't feel it now. I did mention one thing that no one picked up on, or picked on me for that matter...............the incredible reliabilty I have experienced with my 94 GT...................engine runs like new at nearly 100K, so I know Ford knows something about engines, despite it being an all new AL for 05. And just for the record, don't know what a troll is, sure it's not good, and personally only wanted to beg the question 'what is that you guys see that I apparently don't in regards to curb appeal'?????????????? Most were very nice and countered with a 'it's in the eye of the beholder', and that makes sense. sp thanks for being honest, which is what I'm being. Oh, never said the GTO or other car was superior, only in it's handling characteristics predicated on the ONE comparative road test I read here on your great website................so I'll keep 'tuned', maybe will be turned on, if not it's a G35 coupe, 05!!!
8/2/04, 11:24 PM
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by Galaxie@August 1, 2004, 7:43 PM
Obviously, being such an '05 freak, I disagree with some things you said, but there is nothing wrong with different opinions.
I never got to see the concept car personally, but when I saw the production car was at the '04 NAIAS, there was a huge crowd around it, to the point where I could not get near it, moreso than any other display at the show, '05 Corvette included.
Like every car, to each his own, there will always be people in favour or not. Some people critisize the new Mustang for being too retro, not forward enough, or lacking ornamental scoops and wings. Most people I have talked to that are non "car people" love the car.
I was one of the two members that got the chance to sit down with Hau Thai Tang last week. He stressed two things about the car that are very key. To get the Mustang in the proper price range, you could either have 300Hp with VCT and 3 valves, or an IRS. I think he made the right choice. He also said that people should pass judgement on the car when they test drive it themselves. His background is in chassis and suspension, so I am sure he directed a competent design of the rear suspension. Obviously, he couldn't say things to us about the car that were confidential, not once did he stress the main reason for the IRS was for drag racing purposes, the reasons he gave us were stated in the interview and very logical.
Obviously, being such an '05 freak, I disagree with some things you said, but there is nothing wrong with different opinions.
I never got to see the concept car personally, but when I saw the production car was at the '04 NAIAS, there was a huge crowd around it, to the point where I could not get near it, moreso than any other display at the show, '05 Corvette included.
Like every car, to each his own, there will always be people in favour or not. Some people critisize the new Mustang for being too retro, not forward enough, or lacking ornamental scoops and wings. Most people I have talked to that are non "car people" love the car.
I was one of the two members that got the chance to sit down with Hau Thai Tang last week. He stressed two things about the car that are very key. To get the Mustang in the proper price range, you could either have 300Hp with VCT and 3 valves, or an IRS. I think he made the right choice. He also said that people should pass judgement on the car when they test drive it themselves. His background is in chassis and suspension, so I am sure he directed a competent design of the rear suspension. Obviously, he couldn't say things to us about the car that were confidential, not once did he stress the main reason for the IRS was for drag racing purposes, the reasons he gave us were stated in the interview and very logical.
8/2/04, 11:35 PM
#46
GT Member
Join Date: July 29, 2004
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Granted it's a big differance, but my truck has a 5 link rear suspension system and solid axle. Very much like the Mustang will have. It has a nice thing installed that I wish they would put in the Mustang speed sensative steering. My truck rides like a caddy, but driving down an interstate at 95mhp it will zip in and out of traffic. More than makes up for IRS.
8/3/04, 06:44 AM
#49
Originally posted by branch@August 3, 2004, 12:27 AM
Maybe you can be good enough to explain to me if the IRS was to expensive for the base and GT why is that most $14K cars have it, and ALL performance cars in the N. America market............................seriously, don't you believe that an average GT consumer would pay a few hundred dollars for world class comfort and handling.............I just don't understand this rational in 2004, unless Ford is going on the cheap throughout this entire car?????????????? I love my 94 GT but the ONE objection is the ride, seems like IRS is the simple solution for the 97% of new stang owners that never touch the ring and pinion.............or am I missing something??????????????
Maybe you can be good enough to explain to me if the IRS was to expensive for the base and GT why is that most $14K cars have it, and ALL performance cars in the N. America market............................seriously, don't you believe that an average GT consumer would pay a few hundred dollars for world class comfort and handling.............I just don't understand this rational in 2004, unless Ford is going on the cheap throughout this entire car?????????????? I love my 94 GT but the ONE objection is the ride, seems like IRS is the simple solution for the 97% of new stang owners that never touch the ring and pinion.............or am I missing something??????????????
while a $14K civic does have one, because it is wrong wheel drive, there are no driveshafts and CV joints to build into the system, which would have to be built on a Mustang.
All the performance cars in N.A. do have IRS, but at the same time, a G35 or 350z costs almost as much as a Mustang Cobra (at least here in Canada) and will deliver comperable performance.
That is the thing with the Mustang, it has to be affordable, so you get things like whip antennas, unpainted mirrors and solid rear axles. At the same time though you get power that you can't find in any other car for the price.
8/3/04, 07:03 AM
#50
Team Mustang Source
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Location: Bauhston
Posts: 947
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by kevinb120+August 1, 2004, 7:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (kevinb120 @ August 1, 2004, 7:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Shea@August 1, 2004, 8:32 PM
Nice troll. Have fun. How much does the GTO cost again? And it looks like a POS.
Nice troll. Have fun. How much does the GTO cost again? And it looks like a POS.
c:[/b][/quote]ditto
8/3/04, 07:22 PM
#52
Originally posted by Galaxie@August 3, 2004, 7:47 AM
Here is the thing with an IRS,
while a $14K civic does have one, because it is wrong wheel drive, there are no driveshafts and CV joints to build into the system, which would have to be built on a Mustang.
All the performance cars in N.A. do have IRS, but at the same time, a G35 or 350z costs almost as much as a Mustang Cobra (at least here in Canada) and will deliver comperable performance.
That is the thing with the Mustang, it has to be affordable, so you get things like whip antennas, unpainted mirrors and solid rear axles. At the same time though you get power that you can't find in any other car for the price.
Here is the thing with an IRS,
while a $14K civic does have one, because it is wrong wheel drive, there are no driveshafts and CV joints to build into the system, which would have to be built on a Mustang.
All the performance cars in N.A. do have IRS, but at the same time, a G35 or 350z costs almost as much as a Mustang Cobra (at least here in Canada) and will deliver comperable performance.
That is the thing with the Mustang, it has to be affordable, so you get things like whip antennas, unpainted mirrors and solid rear axles. At the same time though you get power that you can't find in any other car for the price.
8/3/04, 08:04 PM
#53
Cobra R Member
First of all, You Are Wrong about the new Mustang!
Secondly, I am kinda torn on the whole IRS issue. My current Car, a 97 Thunderbird LX 4.6 V8, and my last car, an 89 Thunderbird SC, both had IRS. While it is nice around corners as long as you arent really getting into it, it feels almost jittery if you are giving it some power taking a corner or in certain curves. As well as the added expense of Bearings and Seals for Both Rear Axles, which were going bad on My 89 SC at less than 100K.
I Love Driving, so don't think I am one of the guys that will never fully appreciate what my cars can do. But I can say this, My SC and My Current Thunderbird are really nice cars But they are by no means as much fun to drive as my 87 Thunderbird Turbo coupe was.
My Turbo Coupe was a Blast to Drive, and Took alot of Abuse and Hard Driving. It had 4 wheel Anti Lock Disc Brakes, a 220 Horse power 2.4 Liter Inline 4 Cylinder (Not Completly Stock, I will admit. Cold Air induction, Larger Turbo, and Exhaust With Cherry Bombs on it. ) a Rock Solid 5 Speed Manual Transmission, and a Solid Rear Axle, and more than 195K Miles on it when I sold it and It was still going strong. However it had the "Old School" Quadra Shock setup that goes as far back as I can remember, to the 71-73 Mach 1's.
This 05 Mustang is going to have a completley different setup, with a Pan Hard Rod to control axle hop and lateral movement, and a Center link to tie it in well with the Chassis. This is Very Similar to the same setup used on the Last Gen. Camaro's/Firebird's that most critic's praised.
The only people who are Really Gonna Miss an IRS, are the more than Average, performance oriented drivers that are used to driving more Sophisticated Machines. This is why FORD Builds the Cobra! The Cobra will be more in the price range of a BMW 335i and will handle like an M3 with it's IRS. Most of these Drivers will never really Drive their cars to their Full Potential, so thay make Nice Fast Cruisers.
I think I'm gonna feel more at home behind the wheel of my 05 Gt, Solid Rear Axle and all! Besides if I decide I want IRS later Down the road, I'm sure there are gonna be IRS setups available from Cobra's, that their owners couldn't handle when they tried to Drive It to it's Limits, and lost it. It shouldn't be too hard of a swap, since FORD has already said the 05 Was Designed from the begining to accept an IRS. It should be, just a matter of bolting it up.
Secondly, I am kinda torn on the whole IRS issue. My current Car, a 97 Thunderbird LX 4.6 V8, and my last car, an 89 Thunderbird SC, both had IRS. While it is nice around corners as long as you arent really getting into it, it feels almost jittery if you are giving it some power taking a corner or in certain curves. As well as the added expense of Bearings and Seals for Both Rear Axles, which were going bad on My 89 SC at less than 100K.
I Love Driving, so don't think I am one of the guys that will never fully appreciate what my cars can do. But I can say this, My SC and My Current Thunderbird are really nice cars But they are by no means as much fun to drive as my 87 Thunderbird Turbo coupe was.
My Turbo Coupe was a Blast to Drive, and Took alot of Abuse and Hard Driving. It had 4 wheel Anti Lock Disc Brakes, a 220 Horse power 2.4 Liter Inline 4 Cylinder (Not Completly Stock, I will admit. Cold Air induction, Larger Turbo, and Exhaust With Cherry Bombs on it. ) a Rock Solid 5 Speed Manual Transmission, and a Solid Rear Axle, and more than 195K Miles on it when I sold it and It was still going strong. However it had the "Old School" Quadra Shock setup that goes as far back as I can remember, to the 71-73 Mach 1's.
This 05 Mustang is going to have a completley different setup, with a Pan Hard Rod to control axle hop and lateral movement, and a Center link to tie it in well with the Chassis. This is Very Similar to the same setup used on the Last Gen. Camaro's/Firebird's that most critic's praised.
The only people who are Really Gonna Miss an IRS, are the more than Average, performance oriented drivers that are used to driving more Sophisticated Machines. This is why FORD Builds the Cobra! The Cobra will be more in the price range of a BMW 335i and will handle like an M3 with it's IRS. Most of these Drivers will never really Drive their cars to their Full Potential, so thay make Nice Fast Cruisers.
I think I'm gonna feel more at home behind the wheel of my 05 Gt, Solid Rear Axle and all! Besides if I decide I want IRS later Down the road, I'm sure there are gonna be IRS setups available from Cobra's, that their owners couldn't handle when they tried to Drive It to it's Limits, and lost it. It shouldn't be too hard of a swap, since FORD has already said the 05 Was Designed from the begining to accept an IRS. It should be, just a matter of bolting it up.
8/3/04, 08:42 PM
#54
Bullitt Member
Join Date: January 29, 2004
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I believe the reason why some mustang fans get so defensive about the live axle is that they know that the setup is antiquated for a "sport car" or any passenger car for that matter...
It's not just a question of handling but also comfort. IRS would be appreciated by all except for the few who drag race their cars, I don't care what Hau Thai-Tang or any ford rep says, you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear, the handling and comfort level of the new Mustang will be substandard, you can bet on that!
The cost issue is bogus when they went to a fully independant rear suspension on the explorer there were no price increase and Hau Thai-Tang himself estimated the extra cost for IRS on the new mustang at $300.
It's not just a question of handling but also comfort. IRS would be appreciated by all except for the few who drag race their cars, I don't care what Hau Thai-Tang or any ford rep says, you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear, the handling and comfort level of the new Mustang will be substandard, you can bet on that!
The cost issue is bogus when they went to a fully independant rear suspension on the explorer there were no price increase and Hau Thai-Tang himself estimated the extra cost for IRS on the new mustang at $300.
8/3/04, 09:04 PM
#55
Member
Join Date: July 21, 2004
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by André@August 3, 2004, 8:45 PM
I believe the reason why some mustang fans get so defensive about the live axle is that they know that the setup is antiquated for a "sport car" or any passenger car for that matter...
It's not just a question of handling but also comfort. IRS would be appreciated by all except for the few who drag race their cars, I don't care what Hau Thai-Tang or any ford rep says, you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear, the handling and comfort level of the new Mustang will be substandard, you can bet on that!
The cost issue is bogus when they went to a fully independant rear suspension on the explorer there were no price increase and Hau Thai-Tang himself estimated the extra cost for IRS on the new mustang at $300.
I believe the reason why some mustang fans get so defensive about the live axle is that they know that the setup is antiquated for a "sport car" or any passenger car for that matter...
It's not just a question of handling but also comfort. IRS would be appreciated by all except for the few who drag race their cars, I don't care what Hau Thai-Tang or any ford rep says, you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear, the handling and comfort level of the new Mustang will be substandard, you can bet on that!
The cost issue is bogus when they went to a fully independant rear suspension on the explorer there were no price increase and Hau Thai-Tang himself estimated the extra cost for IRS on the new mustang at $300.
8/3/04, 09:09 PM
#56
Legacy TMS Member
Man. Sure are a lot of opinions...
Hey, do you all remember when people bought a car because they liked it, and not because it had some gadget or technology?
Why, in 1964.5-1966, Mustangs were flying out the door, and they were most DEFINITELY not the technological wonder some of yas seem to want today.
Most of those cars were not V8s, but I6's. And there were basically TWO different cars underneath, I6 or V8. Steering, axle, wheels, all were I6 or V8 dependent. No swapping or commonality. And STILL people bought them.
Yeah. Those were good days. And not an IRS in sight...
I *still* welcome our solid-axle-it's-cheaper-more-reliable-doesn't-eat-tires-because-toe-out-is-messed-up-and-doesn't-force-you-to-pay-extra-to-realign-everything overlords.
Hey, do you all remember when people bought a car because they liked it, and not because it had some gadget or technology?
Why, in 1964.5-1966, Mustangs were flying out the door, and they were most DEFINITELY not the technological wonder some of yas seem to want today.
Most of those cars were not V8s, but I6's. And there were basically TWO different cars underneath, I6 or V8. Steering, axle, wheels, all were I6 or V8 dependent. No swapping or commonality. And STILL people bought them.
Yeah. Those were good days. And not an IRS in sight...
I *still* welcome our solid-axle-it's-cheaper-more-reliable-doesn't-eat-tires-because-toe-out-is-messed-up-and-doesn't-force-you-to-pay-extra-to-realign-everything overlords.
8/3/04, 10:26 PM
#57
You can't make everyone happy,
Had Ford put the IRS in the car, but as a result had to leave the 4.6 2V 260Hp motor in, everyone would be complaining about the lack of power.
Had Ford put the IRS in the car, but as a result had to leave the 4.6 2V 260Hp motor in, everyone would be complaining about the lack of power.
8/3/04, 10:36 PM
#58
Cobra R Member
[quote]Originally posted by appaloosa@August 4, 2004, 3:07 AM
This is what I'm talking about with my 89 Thunderbird SC. The Rear inner Bearings were going Bad Before I hit 100K. I like to Launch from Stop Lights, On a Regular Occasion, and My SC Could Launch! 315 Foot Pounds of Torque! Whoo Hoo! But I also had to have the Automatic Tranny Rebuilt at 100K too Because of Those Launches!
Originally Posted by André,August 3, 2004, 8:45 PM
I am willing to bet you $$$ it will not hold up for very long against regular drag launches at the strip. Will take much more than $300 to beef it up properly.
8/3/04, 10:45 PM
#59
Legacy TMS Member
Originally posted by André@August 3, 2004, 8:45 PM
I believe the reason why some mustang fans get so defensive about the live axle is that they know that the setup is antiquated for a "sport car" or any passenger car for that matter...
I believe the reason why some mustang fans get so defensive about the live axle is that they know that the setup is antiquated for a "sport car" or any passenger car for that matter...
I could care less if a freak'n dodge neon with four diffrent size flat tires and riding on the roof out handles a live axle mustang. Its all part of the Mustang experience much the same way a Harley is well, the Harley experience (you know those crappy antiquated motorcycles with thier primitive engines).
heck, I wish the car still came with a pushrod engine, but the 4.6 is a pretty good engine (and its grown on me).
Take away the live axle and its not a Mustang anymore, its just a rebadged and dolled up Lincoln LS, which I'm sure is a very nice car and will ride infinitley better than the knuckle-dragging, slack-jawed troglodytic car that the Mustang is and hopefully will remain ever more.
IMO, I wish Ford would come out with a very smart looking Cougar based on the Lincoln LS, but fitted with a 4.6 for you IRS guys.
8/3/04, 10:50 PM
#60
GT Member
Join Date: July 29, 2004
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by TampaBear67@August 3, 2004, 10:07 PM
[color=#0000FF]First of all, You Are Wrong about the new Mustang!
But they are by no means as much fun to drive as my 87 Thunderbird Turbo coupe was.
My Turbo Coupe was a Blast to Drive, and Took alot of Abuse and Hard Driving.
[color=#0000FF]First of all, You Are Wrong about the new Mustang!
But they are by no means as much fun to drive as my 87 Thunderbird Turbo coupe was.
My Turbo Coupe was a Blast to Drive, and Took alot of Abuse and Hard Driving.