Paris MkVI

My experience has been completely delightful. In fact, all of my Mustangs have been at least good reliable transportation (admittedly the four-bangers lacked a little excitement).

I find the new Mustang to be a very good car. And one heck of a lot of fun. Trimming another two inches off the carpet length to save money, no keylock on the passenger door, etc. doesn't bother me in the least.

Hollywood_North GT

That's quite possibly the most ignorant remark I've ever read.

tech

Please explain. How is that ignorant? Customers such as yourself believe that foreign cars are somehow better in quality, but you don't bother to read the facts. If you would have bothered to read the article I posted earlier, you might understand that you and others have a belief that is completely invalid. So who's the ignorant one?

Tony Alonso

Ford and GM have been losing customers for 15+ years. It is my opinion they have been losing them because of less than appealing style (interior or exterior), relaibility experiences, fit and finish, with a dab of dealer experience thrown in too. It's only in the last 12 months that GM and Ford have reached enough of a crisis point, with all of the job losses, that discussions about customer perception are entering into the marketing strategies and improvement plans for those companies.

Right now, if you look at various J.D. Power measurements, there is a wide variety of ways to see that certain reliability numbers are up for US-based companies, and others are down for Asian or European manufacturers.

Perception is truth to people who don't live and breathe cars like many of us on here do. GM and Ford are trying to get the message out in various ways to people. However, if someone sees something they registers as a strong like or dislike in one vehicle and then compares to another, their opinion becomes reality, independent of the numbers out there.

This conversation started about carpet and the perception of "cheapness". I personally don't see a big deal, but others do. On the other hand, Mustangs are not the bargain basement vehicles they once were. I think a $27K MSRP for a decently optioned Mustang GT coupe is significant money. Ford chose to make certain trade-offs in this vehicle that have formed impressions. As you see by this thread, there are conflicting ones.

In my opinion, Ford must continue to work on the details of all of those things I mentioned previously (style, reliability, fit and finish, customer experience) TOGETHER for their mainstream vehicles. Let's hope they do, otherwise it will directly impact what happens with Mustang improvements.

Vermillion06

Quite frankly, if staring up under the dash and seeing how far the carpet goes up, carpet thickness, and feeling "soft touch" plastics gives you a warm fuzzy feeling, then maybe your priorities are different than most people on this site.

It sounds as if the carpet and interior plastics are more important to you than rear wheel drive, a 300 hp Aluminum V8, available manual transmission and arguably one of the best exterior designs on the market today for under $30k. Maybe you should be looking at another car, because most people don't buy Mustangs to gaze at how high the carpet goes up under the dash and to gain pleasure squeezing the interior plastics!

It really sounds like you should be looking at a car where the emphasis is on the interior; perhaps a more luxury oriented car, like a Lincoln, rather than a performance oriented one?

I vacuum my '06 weekly and I haven't had any problems. In fact, I don't even remember noticing how far the carpet goes up under the dash and pedals. The carpet in my car looks fine to me.
That's one person's opinion. Perhaps he has a bone to pick with Ford. But yes, you work on one make of car long enough you learn their strengths and weaknesses.

karman

Quote:
Originally posted by karman@January 8, 2006, 9:50 PM
My 1999 Buick LeSabre Limited ($30K) Leaked Oil like the Exxon Valdez By the time it got to 25k miles. I'll never buy a Buick again .

Quoted post

Somewhere there is someone who has had that experience with every manufacturer. Buicks have actually enjoyed a reputation for good quality overall - boring as they have become.
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So which is it? Walk away from any manufacturer if you get a bad car or forgive them because every car maker has lemons ?

incomingRPG

I hope you don't mind if I join you at this point.

TomServo92

Finally I can agree with you! Pass the popcorn if you don't mind...

incomingRPG

Enjoy,I'm buying.

foxhtn

Nova Scotia

97svtgoin05gt

Hollywood_North GT

You need to come back down to reality for a moment. Unfortunately, that site you quoted is filled with erroneous information...

Take this statement: 84% of all federal spending of our tax dollars already goes towards the "big three" untouchables: interest on the national debt, national defense (including homeland security) and entitlements such as Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. Well, the first two circumstances listed there are a direct result of the policies of the current administration. Which is ironic when you consider this statement, Since President Bush has all but ruled out any government help for either Ford or GM saying they have to make a product that is "relevant" (did you know Mr. Bush himself owns a Ford pickup truck?), since the writer asks the American public to "buy American" even though their President has called North American vehicles "irrelevant." So why should WE buy them? Or is the President correct for not offering to bale out two of America's biggest companies because he realizes they're not truly competitive?

Then there's the quoting of the "usual suspects" (their own facts suspect, frankly) like J.D. Powers, who are basically "bought and paid for."

And then the refuting of this statement: GM and Ford need to make cars Americans want to buy. That statement is true, by and large. If you doubt this, then explain why so many people are buying imports? Here's a hint for you: Because they WANT to! Which means it follows that they don't want to buy North American vehicles. Why? Quality, quality, quality. Like the woman I ran into at the vet today, who drives a '99 Windstar and told me that she would never buy another one because the brakes failed twice, and many other components have also caused her problems...and worst of all, the dealership refused to stand by the product and repair her defects.

The entire tenet of your argument is that buyers are being somehow "fooled" or "tricked" into thinking Japanese cars are more dependable; that they're somehow ignorant of the facts or easily manipulated...and I can assure you, nothing could be further from the truth. It's a fallacious argument you present, that attempts to let GM and Ford off the hook for 20 years of shoddy workmanship, lazy designs, bad management and an out-of-control union.

That site you linked to attempts to blame the customer for Ford and GM's substandard quality, and I find that sort of sophistry unconscionable, frankly.

The worst part of that site, is that the writer states his theory as being somehow de facto.

Most buyers are pretty savvy, and vote with their wallets. And I'd say the votes are in, as reflected by Ford and GM's continuously falling market share. Only now, in the 11th hour, are Ford and GM TRYING to turn things around. Is it too late? God, I hope not. Only time will tell...

Hollywood_North GT

The "either/or" argument has grown old, dude. That whole, "Look, you're getting an awesome looking car with great power at a good price, so who cares if it's carpeted properly," argument is as erroneous now as it was 10,000 posts ago. I believe Galaxie summed it up nicely earlier in this thread when he said that a few hundred dollars more (at most) would have enabled Ford to fashion an interior that was finished and more competitive with world standards. That way, the Mustang would probably even attract buyers outside the traditional enthusiasts like ourselves, particularly now that more Mustangs are sitting on lots.

It's called sales and recapturing lost market share so that you can SURVIVE. I'll explain it to you someday.

Hollywood_North GT

You forgot to mention MULTIPLE problems, and more importantly, substandard service. If you factor that into the equation, the answer to your question is simple: WALK AWAY, cause now you're talking systemic problems.

runfox

BC_Shelby "the plastics used in the interior of the new Stang are bargain-basement cheap"....
Please forgive me but I just have to ask a question here that really drives me nuts. If the plastic in the Mustang is "cheap", what the heck is "expensive plastic"???

I mean I hear this term "cheap plastic" all the time. The Mustang doors and interior are cheap plastic, thier hard, their inferior, so on and so forth. I just dont get it. I may be niave, I havnt test driven many cars so I dont know what other manufacturers use in thier cars ok. But I dont remember ever riding in any car and looking at or touching the plastic and thinking, ooooo that real nice plastic, ooo it must be expensive!!! It's just PLASTIC!!! its all plastic, hard,soft, whatever!! Just about all cars have plastic somewhere in the inreior surfaces!! We're not talking wood grained dash like in some Jaguar or something.

I have heard some plastic is soft, oooo!!! Who the hech buys a car for soft plastic? WHo for that matter sits in their Mustang , runs thier hands along the doors or across the dash and says " aw man, thats some cheap, hard plastic"!!! WHo cares, its a door, its a dash , it works !!!

I get in My MUstang, turn the key, listen to 300 ponies come to life, and smile to myself, and think," thank God Ford had the good sense to spend their development money on this jewel of an engine, to give me so much fun and excitement , for a price I can afford, with good gas milage on regular fuel!!!



I cant think of any other car that can even come close, even if it has soft, expensive plastic!!!

Vermillion06

That argument is about as old as your constant nit-picking and complaining about the Mustang and it's a lot more valid ...
Geeze, see what happens when I try have a civil discussion and make a suggestion? And you wonder why people think you're a troll...

Okay, Mr Expert, what exactly are your automotive credentials? What gives you the right to be so condescending? Are you an auto industry analyst? Are you an auto industry executive with years of experience? Are you at least one of the so-called "journalists" that writes for a car magazine? What makes you SO right about everything and everyone else so wrong? Do you even own a car? I don't remember you ever mentioning owning a car...

You act as if you know everything about the auto industry, so much more than us mere mortals.

I decided to see for myself. I went out to my '06 Mustang and stuck my camera down underneath the dash and took a picture:



now here is a picture of pedal area of a 350z:


The carpet look to be about the same as "poor quality" as a Mustang.... The Z's carpet ends at the pedals, too. The Mustang's firewall insulation is a nicely molded high density foam which looks better than 350z's insulation, which is that grey fiber padding that looks like compressed dryer lint

here is a picture of a G35 :

GASP.... in the G35, a more expensive car than the 350Z, the carpet goes up a little higher, but only on the LEFT SIDE. Is that bear unpainted sheet metal , exposed nuts and bolts, and the loose corner of the fiber insulation I see under the gas pedal?


Lastly,here's the pedal area of an RSX (with aftermarket pedal covers installed):

Look at that carpet, especially the top edge and how unfinished and crooked it looks! It ends under the pedals too! What happened to Honda quality? At least the edge on the Mustang's carpet is pretty straight....
I think I found the sad truth. You may act like "Mr. Auto Expert", but you havent looked at many cars before, and you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Pull your head out of your rectum and look at reality, not your distorted, domestic-hating, import-loving view of it.

Hollywood_North GT

If you don't like my comments, then why not exercise your god-given right to button your hole?

So now you speak for everyone?

Snap Poll: How many people actually think I'm a troll?

Actually, I own two cars. What does that have to do with anything?

I act like most discerning customers who want good value and quality for my hard earned money. Perhaps you're not savvy enough, or are too privileged to understand that concept.

Lemmie get this straight, you actually went out with a camera to different dealers just to photograph all those cars?

Not sure if you're obsessive, or just need to get a life. Either way, each one of those pics makes my point for me: better quality carpets that are properly tacked down. You might also be interested to know that on the Mustang GT I looked at, the area above the carpet contained "grey fiber padding that looks like compressed dryer lint," as you call it. Not present in your photo. More inconsistency problems, I wonder?

Hollywood_North GT

So, using your logic, all plastics are the same, which means all woods are the same, too...and I guess that means that all metals are identical? Can't tell the difference between any of them, huh? You might want to walk onto some Toyota, Acura, BMW, Audi, Honda - hell, even Hyundai - lots and have a look at any of their vehicles priced above $25K. For that matter, just look at the interior of Ford's own 500 to see what I'm talking about.

The plastics used in the Mustang are cheap. What does that mean? It means that they are hard...likely to grow brittle after years of being exposed to UV light, and as many owners on these forums have already complained, they SCRATCH EASILY because of it. Moreover, plastics like that also tend to exhibit more flexing over time which means a much greater likelihood of dash rattles, etc.

LonghornTX

I thought the interior, and it's quality, were pretty **** good considering the price point and features. Specifically, I thought things like the switchgear and dash looked to be of solid quality. Infact the only thing I found that looked cheap to me (and believe me, I looked, considering how much I disliked the last-gen's interior) was the e-brake. This is coming from someone who drives a BMW, has extensively driven a previous BMW and Audi, and who has worked in a BMW dealership (in the service dept no less). And FYI, from the looks of these boards, you guys seem to be having much less problems than the typical BMW customer.

Tony Alonso

What leads you to that conclusion?

+ design + fit & finish + dealership experience (in my opinion)



With what vehicle did she replace it?

Many people I know made their conclusions based on past information, and now unfortunately for GM or Ford, are leary of giving them another chance when new vehicle time comes around. In my opinion, there appear to be more times in the popular press that GM and Ford get more visibility when recalls are done or safety evaluations are reported. Certainly, it is directly traceable to their problems, but I believe it only amplifies the "US bad, others good" impressions. Those impressions decrease the impact of their newer cars making a positive statement. I believe design is the major advantage they will need to turn things around for them, similar to what Nissan has done in the past few years. Of course, they can't skip on the other stuff I mentioned previously either


That's kind of a silly place to lay blame
word time: SOPHISTRY - Plausible but fallacious argumentation.

That was the impression I got.

That is the main metric right now.

Yes, because the economic impacts would ripple quite large in North America, and I would hate to think what would happen to the Mustang.