More Quality Lapses
5/13/06, 07:38 PM
#1
Closet American
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More Quality Lapses
Was looking closely at a GT on the lot today (lots of them on the lots these days, it seems), and noticed another - what I would consider egregious - example of cost-cutting that helps make my argument about how Ford only did a half-way job on this car.
Anybody with a GT, look up under the dash behind the pedals. Near as I could see, Ford couldn't be bothered to carpet the floor all the way up (you can see insulation), and worse yet, didn't properly tack or bolt the carpet down.
I mean, I know they've cut corners, I know they've deleted many convenience features, I know they used cheap plastic on the inside...but this is just plain sad. I've never see anything like this on any car before. Not to mention looking like crap, what happens when that whole thing gets dirty, and you find yourself having to vacuum insulation instead of carpet (??) or the carpet catches into your shoes or somehow gets caught up into the pedal mechanisms...?
To make matters worse, the Ford parts manager at the dealership - whose family are long-time Ford fans and performance nuts - candidly and quietly admitted to me that he has MAJOR issues with Ford quality, and says that it is still way, way behind.
Anybody with a GT, look up under the dash behind the pedals. Near as I could see, Ford couldn't be bothered to carpet the floor all the way up (you can see insulation), and worse yet, didn't properly tack or bolt the carpet down.
I mean, I know they've cut corners, I know they've deleted many convenience features, I know they used cheap plastic on the inside...but this is just plain sad. I've never see anything like this on any car before. Not to mention looking like crap, what happens when that whole thing gets dirty, and you find yourself having to vacuum insulation instead of carpet (??) or the carpet catches into your shoes or somehow gets caught up into the pedal mechanisms...?
To make matters worse, the Ford parts manager at the dealership - whose family are long-time Ford fans and performance nuts - candidly and quietly admitted to me that he has MAJOR issues with Ford quality, and says that it is still way, way behind.
5/13/06, 07:55 PM
#3
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
Originally Posted by BC_Shelby
Was looking closely at a GT on the lot today (lots of them on the lots these days, it seems), and noticed another - what I would consider egregious - example of cost-cutting that helps make my argument about how Ford only did a half-way job on this car.
Anybody with a GT, look up under the dash behind the pedals. Near as I could see, Ford couldn't be bothered to carpet the floor all the way up (you can see insulation), and worse yet, didn't properly tack or bolt the carpet down.
I mean, I know they've cut corners, I know they've deleted many convenience features, I know they used cheap plastic on the inside...but this is just plain sad. I've never see anything like this on any car before. Not to mention looking like crap, what happens when that whole thing gets dirty, and you find yourself having to vacuum insulation instead of carpet (??) or the carpet catches into your shoes or somehow gets caught up into the pedal mechanisms...?
To make matters worse, the Ford parts manager at the dealership - whose family are long-time Ford fans and performance nuts - candidly and quietly admitted to me that he has MAJOR issues with Ford quality, and says that it is still way, way behind.
Anybody with a GT, look up under the dash behind the pedals. Near as I could see, Ford couldn't be bothered to carpet the floor all the way up (you can see insulation), and worse yet, didn't properly tack or bolt the carpet down.
I mean, I know they've cut corners, I know they've deleted many convenience features, I know they used cheap plastic on the inside...but this is just plain sad. I've never see anything like this on any car before. Not to mention looking like crap, what happens when that whole thing gets dirty, and you find yourself having to vacuum insulation instead of carpet (??) or the carpet catches into your shoes or somehow gets caught up into the pedal mechanisms...?
To make matters worse, the Ford parts manager at the dealership - whose family are long-time Ford fans and performance nuts - candidly and quietly admitted to me that he has MAJOR issues with Ford quality, and says that it is still way, way behind.
Ford figured (and rightly so) if Mustang owners were going to jam their feet to the carpet and get it stuck, no carpeting would solve the problem for sure.
THIS WAS NOT A COST CUTTING MEASURE.
Now look at the carpet quality and the antennea and some of the other stuff... thats cost cutting. I am so glad this car was so affordable, thanks Ford.
5/13/06, 08:05 PM
#4
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so dont buy one. it is the best car EVER. go look at a g35 the inside is cheap as hell. and it looks all riced out, unlike the mustang which has style, and IS THE WAY A MUTANG IS SUPPOSED TO BE. simple, no climate control navigation crap. big v8 solid axle and a sexy body. thats a mustang.
5/13/06, 08:20 PM
#5
Shelby GT500 Member
This post confuses me. First off, if you look at ANY vehicle short of $50,000 these days, you WILL find cost cutting measures. I'm sure even the high priced vehicles have them here and there. I cannot imagine that looking UNDER THE DASH, UP UNDER THE PEDALS and seeing insulation would change a decision to purchase this car. Who looks at that? Who chooses a car based on that kind of information?
As far as a parts guy talking about quality, don't you think you can go to ANY auto service department (service, parts etc) and find people who would say "oh, we see cars in here all day long, the quality isn't that great"? They work in the SERVICE DEPARTMENT. People NOT having problems do not stop by and say "Hi guys, I'm not having any trouble, quality is up!". All they see are broken cars. I just don't think you can go by that information either.
These two bits of information to me are just bogus.
As far as a parts guy talking about quality, don't you think you can go to ANY auto service department (service, parts etc) and find people who would say "oh, we see cars in here all day long, the quality isn't that great"? They work in the SERVICE DEPARTMENT. People NOT having problems do not stop by and say "Hi guys, I'm not having any trouble, quality is up!". All they see are broken cars. I just don't think you can go by that information either.
These two bits of information to me are just bogus.
5/13/06, 08:38 PM
#6
Legacy TMS Member
I would beg to differ about the G35 interior looking cheap. However, I also would not qualify Ford quality as "way behind" either. The word "quality" is used in 2 contexts from what I have seen people post or hear them talk about when they review their experiences - fit and finish OR reliability. Every vehicle has a certain degree to which they are affected by each.
Today, I test drove a Saturn Sky roadster. There were wider gaps between some of the instrument panel parts than I have seen on other vehicles. However, the overall appearance of the interior was rich looking with the color combination and nice textures on the main control surfaces (shifter, steering wheel, radio buttons). Many people were commenting on the "quality".
I also did a second test drive (my first one was back in 2004) of an S197 Mustang GT. I did not notice the carpet. What I did notice was the texture of the plastic surfaces. The gaps were much less than the Sky. I hear a number of people call the interior "cheap", despite that fact.
In the service department and on these forums, it is interesting to see what people report as issues. There have been a number that initially concerned me - Shaker stereos, suspension pops, axle whine, electronic throttle failures. Fortunately, most of those have been addressed by upgraded parts.
There are cars that have a high reputation for either fit/finish or reliability (or both). If you benchmark against those cars, you will consistently be disappointed because many of them would not sell in the Mustang's market segment. Examples are Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Lexus IS/ES/GS/LS, etc.
You can now find examples of improvements in Ford cars and GM cars in certain arenas. These manufacturers are behind because of past sins. They are trying to improve. I would argue the Mustang engineers learned A LOT not only from the shortcomings of the past generation, but also by comparing to cars we think of as "quality".
In 2007, there will be options to 'de-cheapen' the interior (color combinations, the IP material upgrade). I think Ford is listening and responding to customer desires, based on the available finances.
In short, there is always room for improvement, but the S197 Mustang is of higher "quality" than the previous one, in my opinion.
Today, I test drove a Saturn Sky roadster. There were wider gaps between some of the instrument panel parts than I have seen on other vehicles. However, the overall appearance of the interior was rich looking with the color combination and nice textures on the main control surfaces (shifter, steering wheel, radio buttons). Many people were commenting on the "quality".
I also did a second test drive (my first one was back in 2004) of an S197 Mustang GT. I did not notice the carpet. What I did notice was the texture of the plastic surfaces. The gaps were much less than the Sky. I hear a number of people call the interior "cheap", despite that fact.
In the service department and on these forums, it is interesting to see what people report as issues. There have been a number that initially concerned me - Shaker stereos, suspension pops, axle whine, electronic throttle failures. Fortunately, most of those have been addressed by upgraded parts.
There are cars that have a high reputation for either fit/finish or reliability (or both). If you benchmark against those cars, you will consistently be disappointed because many of them would not sell in the Mustang's market segment. Examples are Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Lexus IS/ES/GS/LS, etc.
You can now find examples of improvements in Ford cars and GM cars in certain arenas. These manufacturers are behind because of past sins. They are trying to improve. I would argue the Mustang engineers learned A LOT not only from the shortcomings of the past generation, but also by comparing to cars we think of as "quality".
In 2007, there will be options to 'de-cheapen' the interior (color combinations, the IP material upgrade). I think Ford is listening and responding to customer desires, based on the available finances.
In short, there is always room for improvement, but the S197 Mustang is of higher "quality" than the previous one, in my opinion.
5/13/06, 09:15 PM
#7
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Originally Posted by Tony Alonso
I would beg to differ about the G35 interior looking cheap. However, I also would not qualify Ford quality as "way behind" either. The word "quality" is used in 2 contexts from what I have seen people post or hear them talk about when they review their experiences - fit and finish OR reliability. Every vehicle has a certain degree to which they are affected by each.
Today, I test drove a Saturn Sky roadster. There were wider gaps between some of the instrument panel parts than I have seen on other vehicles. However, the overall appearance of the interior was rich looking with the color combination and nice textures on the main control surfaces (shifter, steering wheel, radio buttons). Many people were commenting on the "quality".
I also did a second test drive (my first one was back in 2004) of an S197 Mustang GT. I did not notice the carpet. What I did notice was the texture of the plastic surfaces. The gaps were much less than the Sky. I hear a number of people call the interior "cheap", despite that fact.
In the service department and on these forums, it is interesting to see what people report as issues. There have been a number that initially concerned me - Shaker stereos, suspension pops, axle whine, electronic throttle failures. Fortunately, most of those have been addressed by upgraded parts.
There are cars that have a high reputation for either fit/finish or reliability (or both). If you benchmark against those cars, you will consistently be disappointed because many of them would not sell in the Mustang's market segment. Examples are Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Lexus IS/ES/GS/LS, etc.
You can now find examples of improvements in Ford cars and GM cars in certain arenas. These manufacturers are behind because of past sins. They are trying to improve. I would argue the Mustang engineers learned A LOT not only from the shortcomings of the past generation, but also by comparing to cars we think of as "quality".
In 2007, there will be options to 'de-cheapen' the interior (color combinations, the IP material upgrade). I think Ford is listening and responding to customer desires, based on the available finances.
In short, there is always room for improvement, but the S197 Mustang is of higher "quality" than the previous one, in my opinion.
Today, I test drove a Saturn Sky roadster. There were wider gaps between some of the instrument panel parts than I have seen on other vehicles. However, the overall appearance of the interior was rich looking with the color combination and nice textures on the main control surfaces (shifter, steering wheel, radio buttons). Many people were commenting on the "quality".
I also did a second test drive (my first one was back in 2004) of an S197 Mustang GT. I did not notice the carpet. What I did notice was the texture of the plastic surfaces. The gaps were much less than the Sky. I hear a number of people call the interior "cheap", despite that fact.
In the service department and on these forums, it is interesting to see what people report as issues. There have been a number that initially concerned me - Shaker stereos, suspension pops, axle whine, electronic throttle failures. Fortunately, most of those have been addressed by upgraded parts.
There are cars that have a high reputation for either fit/finish or reliability (or both). If you benchmark against those cars, you will consistently be disappointed because many of them would not sell in the Mustang's market segment. Examples are Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Lexus IS/ES/GS/LS, etc.
You can now find examples of improvements in Ford cars and GM cars in certain arenas. These manufacturers are behind because of past sins. They are trying to improve. I would argue the Mustang engineers learned A LOT not only from the shortcomings of the past generation, but also by comparing to cars we think of as "quality".
In 2007, there will be options to 'de-cheapen' the interior (color combinations, the IP material upgrade). I think Ford is listening and responding to customer desires, based on the available finances.
In short, there is always room for improvement, but the S197 Mustang is of higher "quality" than the previous one, in my opinion.
I agree, the forthcoming leather or leather-like dash brow, center and side panels will help mitigate these issues somewhat, but the cheap stuff that's still there will remain, I suspect.
But back to the carpet issue for a moment. Please, no more lame excuses here. Problems with carpeting getting jammed in the gas pedal and causing some difficulty decelerating? Please! Why is it that Ford has problems that other manufacturers don't seem to have? You mean to tell me that they can't tack or glue or bolt the carpet to the floor like everybody else?! Yeah, and I got some seaside real estate for you in Bangladesh. Not only did the bloody carpet not go right up to the top, but it was all coming up. How long till the whole thing starts to bunch up? Now there's a REAL safety concern!
Re the comments about the parts manager: he has a '67 Stang, builds engines, is a total performance nut, and actually told me that the two best vehicles that Ford makes right now are the Mustang and the F-150. He said the rest are problematic. And even HE said his only reservations about buying a new Stang - which he likes overall - is the lack of rear seat room, and the cheap bits all over the interior. That's coming from a FORD GUY!
5/13/06, 10:05 PM
#8
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
Originally Posted by BC_Shelby
I tend to agree with most of what you said. Overall, I love the new Stang. But there are some glaring oversights, and many people here try to justify them because of blind devotion to product or brand. It doesn't matter what anyone here says, the plastics used in the interior of the new Stang are bargain-basement cheap, and no amount of justification or rationalization or obfuscation is going to change that fact. And frankly, if you look at the plastics used in a car like the 500, it's all soft-touch - much closer to what you'll find in imports, and much better. Why weren't they used in the Stang? And don't give me the $$ argument, because that's BS. If that argument had any validity, Ford wouldn't be losing so much market share. They're losing market share because of years of dodgy quality.
I agree, the forthcoming leather or leather-like dash brow, center and side panels will help mitigate these issues somewhat, but the cheap stuff that's still there will remain, I suspect.
But back to the carpet issue for a moment. Please, no more lame excuses here. Problems with carpeting getting jammed in the gas pedal and causing some difficulty decelerating? Please! Why is it that Ford has problems that other manufacturers don't seem to have? You mean to tell me that they can't tack or glue or bolt the carpet to the floor like everybody else?! Yeah, and I got some seaside real estate for you in Bangladesh. Not only did the bloody carpet not go right up to the top, but it was all coming up. How long till the whole thing starts to bunch up? Now there's a REAL safety concern!
Re the comments about the parts manager: he has a '67 Stang, builds engines, is a total performance nut, and actually told me that the two best vehicles that Ford makes right now are the Mustang and the F-150. He said the rest are problematic. And even HE said his only reservations about buying a new Stang - which he likes overall - is the lack of rear seat room, and the cheap bits all over the interior. That's coming from a FORD GUY!
I agree, the forthcoming leather or leather-like dash brow, center and side panels will help mitigate these issues somewhat, but the cheap stuff that's still there will remain, I suspect.
But back to the carpet issue for a moment. Please, no more lame excuses here. Problems with carpeting getting jammed in the gas pedal and causing some difficulty decelerating? Please! Why is it that Ford has problems that other manufacturers don't seem to have? You mean to tell me that they can't tack or glue or bolt the carpet to the floor like everybody else?! Yeah, and I got some seaside real estate for you in Bangladesh. Not only did the bloody carpet not go right up to the top, but it was all coming up. How long till the whole thing starts to bunch up? Now there's a REAL safety concern!
Re the comments about the parts manager: he has a '67 Stang, builds engines, is a total performance nut, and actually told me that the two best vehicles that Ford makes right now are the Mustang and the F-150. He said the rest are problematic. And even HE said his only reservations about buying a new Stang - which he likes overall - is the lack of rear seat room, and the cheap bits all over the interior. That's coming from a FORD GUY!
Wish I had your money... No, not if I have to have your point of view (which you are entitled to).
5/13/06, 10:38 PM
#9
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I'm a little confused by your topic title. You say more “Quality lapses” but your complaints are about what you consider cutting corners by Ford. To me a quality problem would be something falling off the car because it was installed wrong, a part breaking because it was defective. What all of us who design and build products today focus on is design-to-cost. From concept through initial design you continually trade (cost vs. performance) design solutions to meet the requirements passed down to you. To meet the production cost target for the 05 Mustang GT I’m sure the Ford designers compromised on some material choices in order to meet their cost goals. I don’t consider that a quality issue. You get what you pay for. I have no desire to pay for all the pointless bells and whistles you find in most new cars today.
I got the best looking, best driving car on the market for what I wanted to pay. In 13 months of ownership I’ve had no QUALITY problems with my Mustang.
Greg
I got the best looking, best driving car on the market for what I wanted to pay. In 13 months of ownership I’ve had no QUALITY problems with my Mustang.
Greg
5/13/06, 11:03 PM
#10
Closet American
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Originally Posted by karman
I'm sorry that you don't understand. If you wanted everything so perfect, we would have to pay at least another 3 thousand for the car. The average Joe can't even afford this car without a loan. Every dollar counts!! You sound like you are totally out of touch with reality. You need to have a few Molsons with somebody that actually works for a living.
Wish I had your money... No, not if I have to have your point of view (which you are entitled to).
Wish I had your money... No, not if I have to have your point of view (which you are entitled to).
More excuses for poor workmanship from the blindly devoted, I guess.
NEWSFLASH: MOST people have to get loans for cars...no matter the price. What does that have to do with anything?
Just out of curiosity, I'm not sure what your criteria is for "working for a living," but you shouldn't get bent out of shape just because others make more money at their careers than you.
5/13/06, 11:44 PM
#11
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
Originally Posted by BC_Shelby
I understand just fine. You're not comprehending what I'm saying. Nobody expects perfection in a sub-$40K car. They expect basic quality standards. Apparently asking for carpeting to be fastened down is now somehow considered "perfection." And how does THAT cost $3K exactly?
More excuses for poor workmanship from the blindly devoted, I guess.
NEWSFLASH: MOST people have to get loans for cars...no matter the price. What does that have to do with anything?
Just out of curiosity, I'm not sure what your criteria is for "working for a living," but you shouldn't get bent out of shape just because others make more money at their careers than you.
More excuses for poor workmanship from the blindly devoted, I guess.
NEWSFLASH: MOST people have to get loans for cars...no matter the price. What does that have to do with anything?
Just out of curiosity, I'm not sure what your criteria is for "working for a living," but you shouldn't get bent out of shape just because others make more money at their careers than you.
I am sorry that you feel that you have to gloat that you don't have an average income. That is crass and shows that you feel that money is somehow important to being a better person
I am "bent out of shape" because of your POINT OF VIEW. I never said that I did not make a comfortable living.
I just stated that you are out of touch with reality. I am not blindly devoted to Ford, this Mustang is the first new Ford car I have ever purchased. If you remember, my last car was a Buick lemon which cost more than the Mustang.
GET OFF THE GRAND PIANO AND PLAY THE HARMONICA FOR A CHANGE.
5/14/06, 12:23 AM
#12
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Well after reading these posts all I have to say is in all the cars I have owned the Ford Mustang is the best. Not because it cost less then other cars on the market, not becuase it is full of plastic (some of the best IMO), and not because the carpet may be tacked differently then one might want. I love my car, because of the sense of pride and sense of confidence it gives me when I drive. The excitement it brings when I hammer on the gas or great compliments I get from other motorists. If you don't love driving your car, or all you see are the imperfections you are missing the point of driving a Mustang. Oh and if you think that GT 500 soft touch is a grade higher your wrong, it is great looking when its new, but it takes alot more upkeep and cracks like crazy. Anyway no matter what Mustang year you drive, the enthusiasm it brings pulling it from the garage, the sound of the pipes, the wine of the turbine jet of a supercharger is all I need to be excited about driving my mustang. There is no place I would rather be the on a widely road enjoying my ride. If you cannot appreciate that you cannot appreciate your Mustang, so do me a favor and go buy yourself a KIA. That way you can get 4 cylinders 100 horses and don't let me forget correcty tacked carpet too. Oh standby that might be extra, you will have to ask the service department to special order that option. To the rest of you who buy your Mustangs for enjoyment of the drive CHEERS!
5/14/06, 01:07 AM
#13
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Originally Posted by karman
I am sorry you again have misunderstood.
I am sorry that you feel that you have to gloat that you don't have an average income. That is crass and shows that you feel that money is somehow important to being a better person
I am sorry that you feel that you have to gloat that you don't have an average income. That is crass and shows that you feel that money is somehow important to being a better person
You have managed to take my perfectly legitimate complaint that Ford didn't bother to fix the carpet to the floor (something every other manufacturer in the world seems able to accomplish) and rationalize it by arguing that the Mustang is inexpensive and a great car for the money, and who needs silly options (like properly affixed carpeting, as if the two were somehow mutually exclusive in a car at this price) and blah, blah, blah. You then derided me by telling me to 'get out and have a beer with someone who works for a living.'
My observation was legitimate, and it stands. Not being able to affix carpet to the floor is not only slipshod, but could prove to be a safety hazard in its own right down the road. And it makes one wonder if the company has cut corners in other more critical areas (like mechanicals and electricals) that one can't readily see.
5/14/06, 02:53 AM
#14
Hehe... first off... I have to congratulate you for managing to use "slipshod" and "obfuscation" in a sentence
I guess I need to bust out my "word for the day" calendar... ahh who am I kidding that's just pure poppycock!
Ok so seriously, I totally agree with you about the carpet. It's cheap, it's thin, it's already torn away from the floor by my floormat hook.
Would I have liked Ford to use a better quality carpet? Absolutely!
But let's get real here, your "perfectly legitimate complaint" about the carpet wasn't exactly your first post now was it?
"Was looking closely at a GT on the lot today (lots of them on the lots these days, it seems), and noticed another - what I would consider egregious - example of cost-cutting that helps make my argument about how Ford only did a half-way job on this car."
Now what this says, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that you think Ford did a bad job, or to quote, a "half-way job" on the car.
Do you really expect to come into a Mustang forum and make derogatory comments about the Mustang and people NOT disagree / flame you?
It seems to me this is the ONLY reason you made this post. To troll for a flame war, which is kind of what you've got going here... so um... congrats?
Furthermore it sounds like you don't even OWN the car. Which, AGAIN, begs the question as to why you would post this in the first place.
And yeah it's got cheap carpet... but MAN do I LOVE this car!
I guess I need to bust out my "word for the day" calendar... ahh who am I kidding that's just pure poppycock!
Ok so seriously, I totally agree with you about the carpet. It's cheap, it's thin, it's already torn away from the floor by my floormat hook.
Would I have liked Ford to use a better quality carpet? Absolutely!
But let's get real here, your "perfectly legitimate complaint" about the carpet wasn't exactly your first post now was it?
"Was looking closely at a GT on the lot today (lots of them on the lots these days, it seems), and noticed another - what I would consider egregious - example of cost-cutting that helps make my argument about how Ford only did a half-way job on this car."
Now what this says, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that you think Ford did a bad job, or to quote, a "half-way job" on the car.
Do you really expect to come into a Mustang forum and make derogatory comments about the Mustang and people NOT disagree / flame you?
It seems to me this is the ONLY reason you made this post. To troll for a flame war, which is kind of what you've got going here... so um... congrats?
Furthermore it sounds like you don't even OWN the car. Which, AGAIN, begs the question as to why you would post this in the first place.
And yeah it's got cheap carpet... but MAN do I LOVE this car!
5/14/06, 05:11 AM
#15
Originally Posted by BC_Shelby
To make matters worse, the Ford parts manager at the dealership - whose family are long-time Ford fans and performance nuts - candidly and quietly admitted to me that he has MAJOR issues with Ford quality, and says that it is still way, way behind.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/01/23/...ars/index.html
Ford is FAR from perfect, and they have themselves to blame for said perceived lack of quality/actually quality deficiencies, but to use the phrase 'way, way behind' is a complete fallacy.
I'll also include the recent Detroit News article comparing a Fusion ($25,650) vs. Camry ($24,266).
Even surprised me . .
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...605030329/1149
(NOTE: I am well aware that the Fusion hasn't won ALL comparison tests presented by different media outlets.)
5/14/06, 07:47 AM
#16
Team Mustang Source
I don't understand the nit picking of the Mustang. NO manufacturer offers a high performance V8 at this price point. Yes they cut corners in some unimportant areas that do not effect performance or enjoyability. There are many 40-50k + cars that are not as nice as the Mustang. Cheap plastics? Would 1/4 inch plastic look better? All car interiors use plastics (hard and soft) just look at the inside of a $50K Cadillac if you want to see cost cutting. Remember Mustang was never mean't to be a luxury car. I've owned cars in all price points, and have never owned one that puts a smile on my face or is as enjoyable as the Mustang. Thanks Ford!! I love this car.
5/14/06, 09:39 AM
#17
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
Originally Posted by BC_Shelby
First of all, I don't think you're sorry at all. Not one bit. Go re-read your post. YOU said: "You need to have a few Molsons with somebody that actually works for a living," thereby implying that I DON'T work for a living, which is a pretty insulting remark by any standard.
Maybe you should though.
5/14/06, 10:08 AM
#18
Legacy TMS Member
Originally Posted by BC_Shelby
I tend to agree with most of what you said. Overall, I love the new Stang. But there are some glaring oversights, and many people here try to justify them because of blind devotion to product or brand. It doesn't matter what anyone here says, the plastics used in the interior of the new Stang are bargain-basement cheap, and no amount of justification or rationalization or obfuscation is going to change that fact.
Originally Posted by BC_Shelby
And frankly, if you look at the plastics used in a car like the 500, it's all soft-touch - much closer to what you'll find in imports, and much better. Why weren't they used in the Stang? And don't give me the $$ argument, because that's BS.
Originally Posted by BC_Shelby
They're losing market share because of years of dodgy quality.
Originally Posted by BC_Shelby
I agree, the forthcoming leather or leather-like dash brow, center and side panels will help mitigate these issues somewhat, but the cheap stuff that's still there will remain, I suspect.
Originally Posted by BC_Shelby
But back to the carpet issue for a moment. Please, no more lame excuses here. Problems with carpeting getting jammed in the gas pedal and causing some difficulty decelerating? Please! Why is it that Ford has problems that other manufacturers don't seem to have? You mean to tell me that they can't tack or glue or bolt the carpet to the floor like everybody else?! Yeah, and I got some seaside real estate for you in Bangladesh. Not only did the bloody carpet not go right up to the top, but it was all coming up. How long till the whole thing starts to bunch up? Now there's a REAL safety concern!
Originally Posted by BC_Shelby
Re the comments about the parts manager: he has a '67 Stang, builds engines, is a total performance nut, and actually told me that the two best vehicles that Ford makes right now are the Mustang and the F-150. He said the rest are problematic. And even HE said his only reservations about buying a new Stang - which he likes overall - is the lack of rear seat room, and the cheap bits all over the interior. That's coming from a FORD GUY!
I recently read a story about Toyota slips in the quality area because of an increase in their recalls. It was attributed to making more vehicles as their market share has increased. There are some major advantages this company has because of its wealth, but it is not immune to the same things that affect Ford.
Last, while I am not brand loyal, I do think improvements have been made, and they will continue. I personally have had vehicles from GM, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Dodge, and Ford over the past 19 years. It's too bad that Ford, GM, and the Chrysler division of DC had to be spanked so bad in the market to make changes. However, the competition has spurred them to get more honest with themselves about what's important to the customer.
I test drove an '06 Mustang GT yesterday (my second time in an S197 Mustang since 2004). Even though it was a little less enthusiastic in the acceleration department than my '03 Mach 1, I still had the silly tickle in the stomach when I drove it. It looks great and feels refined. Despite the cheap plastic of the interior, it was fun to be in that car. Ultimately, if Ford can continue building more appealing styled offerings while really focusing on what the target market wants in their vehicle (whether appearance, performance, safety, features, etc.), improvements will filter into the Mustang.
5/14/06, 10:22 AM
#19
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Originally Posted by Evil_Capri
Ford is FAR from perfect, and they have themselves to blame for said perceived lack of quality/actually quality deficiencies, but to use the phrase 'way, way behind' is a complete fallacy.
I'll also include the recent Detroit News article comparing a Fusion ($25,650) vs. Camry ($24,266).
Even surprised me . .
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...605030329/1149
(NOTE: I am well aware that the Fusion hasn't won ALL comparison tests presented by different media outlets.)
I'll also include the recent Detroit News article comparing a Fusion ($25,650) vs. Camry ($24,266).
Even surprised me . .
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...605030329/1149
(NOTE: I am well aware that the Fusion hasn't won ALL comparison tests presented by different media outlets.)
5/14/06, 10:26 AM
#20
Originally Posted by incomingRPG
While I will congratulate Ford for making some improvements to their products, they still have a long way to go to catch the competition, and more importantly win back market share. To me the Fusion looks like a reincarnation of a 1994 Honda Accord. Look at the side profile, the shape of the C-pillars, the rear tail-lights, and the layout of the dash... straight out of a 1994 Accord. Funny that article fails to mention the 268 horsepower V6 in the new Camry, why if my math is correct, that is only 32 shy of 300 horsepower.
And everyone is entilted to their opinion. I don't see the Honda resemblence . . . .