More Quality Lapses
5/14/06, 10:42 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by BC_Shelby
I tend to agree with most of what you said. Overall, I love the new Stang. But there are some glaring oversights, and many people here try to justify them because of blind devotion to product or brand. It doesn't matter what anyone here says, the plastics used in the interior of the new Stang are bargain-basement cheap, and no amount of justification or rationalization or obfuscation is going to change that fact. And frankly, if you look at the plastics used in a car like the 500, it's all soft-touch - much closer to what you'll find in imports, and much better. Why weren't they used in the Stang? And don't give me the $$ argument, because that's BS. If that argument had any validity, Ford wouldn't be losing so much market share. They're losing market share because of years of dodgy quality.
5/14/06, 10:45 AM
#22
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Originally Posted by Evil_Capri
And if your math was correct you must have notice that the pricing of the new Camry with the V6 would have overshot the $25K question in which the article spoke. (or ~$25K since their test Fusion is over by $650.00)
And everyone is entilted to their opinion. I don't see the Honda resemblence . . . .
And everyone is entilted to their opinion. I don't see the Honda resemblence . . . .
5/14/06, 10:48 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by incomingRPG
I couldn't agree with you more BC. And as you later stated... More excuses for poor workmanship from the blindly devoted, I guess.
5/14/06, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by TomServo92
And more baseless criticism from the blindly biased.
I know that I am in the minority here, but I am not alone, I guess BC, rhumb, and TonyA are also blind in your opinion.
5/14/06, 11:19 AM
#25
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Originally Posted by incomingRPG
Mark, thanks for posting the pictures of the Accord, could you post pictures of the rear and the interior also? The defense rests your honor.
I know that I am in the minority here, but I am not alone, I guess BC, rhumb, and TonyA are also blind in your opinion.
I know that I am in the minority here, but I am not alone, I guess BC, rhumb, and TonyA are also blind in your opinion.
Still not seeing it.
5/14/06, 11:35 AM
#26
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Originally Posted by TomServo92
Since you're apparantely too lazy to even post images to back up your argument, I guess I'll do it for you:
Still not seeing it.
Still not seeing it.
Just not in the mood to get into a "pissing" match with a skunk, anyway, how is that Acura Integra?
5/14/06, 11:36 AM
#27
Originally Posted by MustangGuy
I don't understand the nit picking of the Mustang.
Sadly just the way it goes I guess.....
5/14/06, 12:04 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by incomingRPG
And you called me blind? Just not in the mood to get into a "pissing" match with a skunk, anyway, how is that Acura Integra?
Just not in the mood to get into a "pissing" match with a skunk, anyway, how is that Acura Integra?No pissing contest here. You asked me to post pics to prove your point. If you don't have the wherewithall to find them yourself, then the lazy tag still applies.
As for the Acura, I got rid of it after having two serious oil leaks around the cam seals, the power antenna died twice and the tranny started to fail. Of all all the cars I've owned, it went back to dealer for repairs more than any other. I'm sorry, was that not the response you expected?
5/14/06, 12:19 PM
#30
Needs to be more Astony
whine whine whine...thats all people do...my 98 grand prix has interior plastic as hard as a computer keyboard...but it feels fine to me... I don't get this soft plastic thing. I had a 2004 civic and i didn't like the feel of the soft plastic in the car...i was affaid to touch it cause even a little scrap left marks in it.... I'll take the cheap hard plastic any day.
5/14/06, 12:24 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by incomingRPG
I couldn't agree with you more BC. And as you later stated... More excuses for poor workmanship from the blindly devoted, I guess.
5/14/06, 12:26 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by TomServo92
Yes, you're blind.
No pissing contest here. You asked me to post pics to prove your point. If you don't have the wherewithall to find them yourself, then the lazy tag still applies.
As for the Acura, I got rid of it after having two serious oil leaks around the cam seals, the power antenna died twice and the tranny started to fail. Of all all the cars I've owned, it went back to dealer for repairs more than any other. I'm sorry, was that not the response you expected?
No pissing contest here. You asked me to post pics to prove your point. If you don't have the wherewithall to find them yourself, then the lazy tag still applies.
As for the Acura, I got rid of it after having two serious oil leaks around the cam seals, the power antenna died twice and the tranny started to fail. Of all all the cars I've owned, it went back to dealer for repairs more than any other. I'm sorry, was that not the response you expected?
our 95 camry biggest POS ever and the 92 probe still runs fine lol
5/14/06, 12:27 PM
#34
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If the only problem with my Mustang is the carpet and hard plastic on the interior for the duration of my entire ownership of the car. Give me 5 more!!!!!
I'm sorry but every car has issues, glad none of them are under the hood.
I'm sorry but every car has issues, glad none of them are under the hood.
5/14/06, 02:19 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by incomingRPG
While I will congratulate Ford for making some improvements to their products, they still have a long way to go to catch the competition, and more importantly win back market share.
No-one is rooting for Ford's success more than I. But they honestly won't get there when they miss the most basic and fundamental things like tacking a carpet down to the floor...or building interiors to global standards (for those who cited Pontiac as an example, 'fraid they don't count). While people here blast me for my criticisms and sing the blue oval's praises, Ford's market share continues to dwindle.
5/14/06, 02:40 PM
#36
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I've been following this thread, I don't understand the anger and insults. First let me premise this with the following I love my car, it makes me smile every time I see it let alone drive it, I wash and wax it more than any other car I have ever owned, I even named her (yup its a girl), my wife believes I have lost my mind. I'm a 42 year old lawyer father of three and I am obsessed with my Mustang.
However, I don't take it personally when another Mustang fan points out problems. I would be an idiot not to recognize the shortcomings in the car. The carper is so cheap and paper thin it is embarassing, not only does mine not go up far enough under the dash but it was cut unevenly, the hard plastic interior looks cheap and scratches easily, the exterior paint quality is mediocre upon close inspection, several portions of the interior are affixed with plastic screw like plugs that routinely work themselves loose I could name several more things that I am dissappointed in but you can just check the complaints section on this Board to get the full rundown. The Mustang is far from perfect.
Does any of the above make me hate my baby, HELL NO!!!! She's amazingly fun to drive, looks great, sounds better, is faster than spit, gets enormous amounts of attention on the road and I smile every time I think about driving.
In short relax criticism of our cars is fine, hopefully Ford is reading this and will take steps to fix their mistakes. the aftermarket has plenty of options for the cheapness of the interior for those of us who want to spend the cash, for those who don't they can drive the most affordable 3oo horses out there.
However, I don't take it personally when another Mustang fan points out problems. I would be an idiot not to recognize the shortcomings in the car. The carper is so cheap and paper thin it is embarassing, not only does mine not go up far enough under the dash but it was cut unevenly, the hard plastic interior looks cheap and scratches easily, the exterior paint quality is mediocre upon close inspection, several portions of the interior are affixed with plastic screw like plugs that routinely work themselves loose I could name several more things that I am dissappointed in but you can just check the complaints section on this Board to get the full rundown. The Mustang is far from perfect.
Does any of the above make me hate my baby, HELL NO!!!! She's amazingly fun to drive, looks great, sounds better, is faster than spit, gets enormous amounts of attention on the road and I smile every time I think about driving.
In short relax criticism of our cars is fine, hopefully Ford is reading this and will take steps to fix their mistakes. the aftermarket has plenty of options for the cheapness of the interior for those of us who want to spend the cash, for those who don't they can drive the most affordable 3oo horses out there.
5/14/06, 02:48 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by incomingRPG
Mark, thanks for posting the pictures of the Accord, could you post pictures of the rear and the interior also? The defense rests your honor.
I know that I am in the minority here, but I am not alone, I guess BC, rhumb, and TonyA are also blind in your opinion.
I know that I am in the minority here, but I am not alone, I guess BC, rhumb, and TonyA are also blind in your opinion.
Even if they do look similar, if more people buy them because of that, those sales count for Ford's health.
I do agree with the other posters have said about how they feel when they drive their cars. That is more of what Ford needs for all of their vehicles - the ability to generate excitement.
The bottom line is that trade-offs are always there. Obviously, the improvements made to this Mustang have reset our expectations MUCH HIGHER for interior/exterior style, performance, and reliability.
5/14/06, 03:53 PM
#38
I've worked in automotive the last few years, and I've had some expsoure to see how much things cost.
When you add up the cost of extra carpet, to use a thicker carpet with some more surface area, it may only cost $5 more per car, if that. Something like that though, can affect people's perceptions. Ditto for the nicer interior plastics. The nicer plastics would probably add another $100 or so to the price of the car as well. What baffles me is that companies will cut corners like this to save money on a car, but then have to put incentives on it to get it to move.
In my opinion, buyers are much more picky these days and a lack of attention to detail can cause you to lose a customer. Conquest sales are important (getting someone loyal to another brand to buy yours). The mustang has one of the most loyal followings in the industry, but that shouldn't cause them to rest on their laurels. If you want to steal sales from other companies, you have to be better in every which way and prove it. Maybe they eat a little more cost, but the payback is a better preceieved quality. The mustang is in a class of its own, but with family sedans for example, you cannot give an inch of ground to competitors.
Don't get me wrong, I love my car, but I do see room for improvement and would have rather paid a few dollars more for that.
When you add up the cost of extra carpet, to use a thicker carpet with some more surface area, it may only cost $5 more per car, if that. Something like that though, can affect people's perceptions. Ditto for the nicer interior plastics. The nicer plastics would probably add another $100 or so to the price of the car as well. What baffles me is that companies will cut corners like this to save money on a car, but then have to put incentives on it to get it to move.
In my opinion, buyers are much more picky these days and a lack of attention to detail can cause you to lose a customer. Conquest sales are important (getting someone loyal to another brand to buy yours). The mustang has one of the most loyal followings in the industry, but that shouldn't cause them to rest on their laurels. If you want to steal sales from other companies, you have to be better in every which way and prove it. Maybe they eat a little more cost, but the payback is a better preceieved quality. The mustang is in a class of its own, but with family sedans for example, you cannot give an inch of ground to competitors.
Don't get me wrong, I love my car, but I do see room for improvement and would have rather paid a few dollars more for that.
5/14/06, 04:09 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by Tony Alonso
I don't understand what you mean "blind in your opinion".
the last several posts by BC, NDHESQ, TonyA, and Galaxie (posts 35-38) all make points that I think we can all agree with.
5/14/06, 05:29 PM
#40
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Originally Posted by Galaxie
I've worked in automotive the last few years, and I've had some expsoure to see how much things cost.
When you add up the cost of extra carpet, to use a thicker carpet with some more surface area, it may only cost $5 more per car, if that. Something like that though, can affect people's perceptions. Ditto for the nicer interior plastics. The nicer plastics would probably add another $100 or so to the price of the car as well. What baffles me is that companies will cut corners like this to save money on a car, but then have to put incentives on it to get it to move.
In my opinion, buyers are much more picky these days and a lack of attention to detail can cause you to lose a customer. Conquest sales are important (getting someone loyal to another brand to buy yours). The mustang has one of the most loyal followings in the industry, but that shouldn't cause them to rest on their laurels. If you want to steal sales from other companies, you have to be better in every which way and prove it. Maybe they eat a little more cost, but the payback is a better preceieved quality. The mustang is in a class of its own, but with family sedans for example, you cannot give an inch of ground to competitors.
Don't get me wrong, I love my car, but I do see room for improvement and would have rather paid a few dollars more for that.
When you add up the cost of extra carpet, to use a thicker carpet with some more surface area, it may only cost $5 more per car, if that. Something like that though, can affect people's perceptions. Ditto for the nicer interior plastics. The nicer plastics would probably add another $100 or so to the price of the car as well. What baffles me is that companies will cut corners like this to save money on a car, but then have to put incentives on it to get it to move.
In my opinion, buyers are much more picky these days and a lack of attention to detail can cause you to lose a customer. Conquest sales are important (getting someone loyal to another brand to buy yours). The mustang has one of the most loyal followings in the industry, but that shouldn't cause them to rest on their laurels. If you want to steal sales from other companies, you have to be better in every which way and prove it. Maybe they eat a little more cost, but the payback is a better preceieved quality. The mustang is in a class of its own, but with family sedans for example, you cannot give an inch of ground to competitors.
Don't get me wrong, I love my car, but I do see room for improvement and would have rather paid a few dollars more for that.
I love the new Stang, too - I expect to buy an '07 later this year - but it concerns me, frankly, to spend $40K (CDN) for any car only to have "plastic screw like plugs routinely work themselves loose." etc, etc - particularly in the first year or two of ownership.
It's a question of Ford being "penny-wise and pound-foolish" (for those familiar with that old saying) at a time when the competition is hammering them in quality perception...and more importantly, in sales.
As you said, Galaxie, using the same plastic that's in the 500 in the Mustang as well, would not have added much to the car's overall cost - maybe a few hundred dollars at most. If you amortize that into a four or five year loan, it's peanuts. So again, the $$ argument just doesn't add up. At this moment in Ford's history, I'm convinced that customer perception is > than cost cutting. Particularly when we're only talking about dash plastics and gluing carpets to the floor.
The carpet issue is a concern, because I can easily see dirt and other foreign objects getting caught underneath between the carpet and the insulation - creating a bit of a mess; making clean-up and vacuuming a pain.
Maybe Ford thinks Mustang buyers aren't very discerning overall, I dunno. It's baffling to me, really.