Amen!

 

I think that started due to the price of Ford's previus 400+ hp mod motors (4.6/5.4 SC - Cammer - 5.4 Cobra R, et al) - However I figured the 5.0 wouldn't come in anywhere near that simply because Ford either wasn't going to add a 7k mark up to its entry level V8 (and lose its *** to the competition) nor where they going to take a hit and lose money on every GT that goes out the door.

Anyways, I still think its an excellent engine going forward and years down the road will probably be a common engine swap - at some point the economics of installing the 5.0 will be negligible. The 4.6 3v is a good engine but its little more than a side note rendered obsolete by the new engine (the 4.6 3v is neither backwards or forwards compatible). After availability becomes a non-issue and aftermarket parts become common place why stick with the 4.6 3v when going with a 5.0 4v will - pound for pound - produce better results.

The only problem with the 5.0 I see is that Ford, doing SNAFU, is that like the 4.6 3v they might abandon the architecture in a few years which IMO is a bad mistake, one of the endearing things about the Brand-X guys is that they dont change engine architectures on a whim. Ford would be smart with the 5.0 to make parts commonality over the life of the engine a major consideration so that the aftermarket and the faithful don't have to reinvent themselves every coupla years.

 

The 4.6 3v stuff isn't forwards compatible with the 5.0, but it is definitely backwards compatible with older modular shortblocks (2v and 4v)
Chevy V8 stuff is no longer backwards compatible. LS engine pieces aren't compatible with LT engines and LT & LS engine parts aren't compatible with the original Chevy small block. The Ford Modular engines have been around since about 1991 so the architecture has been around for around 20 years. During that time, GM went from the original Chevy Small block, to LT, then to LS.

 

Went to Ford Racing. 5.0 crate engine is 6999 dressed minus AC and Alternator. Bell housing bolt pattern is common to the 4.6 as is the engine mounts. Looks like it would be a drop in exchange for a 2005-2009 GT. It would require that the PCM and harness be added of course and perhaps a cooling system and exhaust upgrade as well. I would imagine a DIY guy could drop a 5.0 into their GT with the same transmission for 10K or so. Now then will that engine pass 50 state smog?

 

Hmmm I thought there was some oil circuit details that prevented the 2v/4v motors from using the 3v heads?

As for GM I know the OSB and LT stuff aren't compatible with the LS engines, but I believe heads are interchangable as long as the correct intake is used (the LS1 engines used a cathederal port for better valvetrain geometry vs. a more conventional rectangle).

In any event, my opinion still stands, Ford needs to let the 5.0 mature so that the aftermarket will embrace the engine like well the orginal 5.0 .

 

Really? Why?

I would be curious to see how the saleen 302 goes against the new 5.0, I think lots of people would be surprised. All this talk of efficiency and the 5.0 having so much more potential, I'm still confused as to what that means.

 

Stroking an engine makes it more undersquare, meaning piston speeds will be higher and loads on the rods and wristpins will increase. This means the engine becomes a liability during sustained high-RPM use (moreso than normal, lol).

Stroker engine would be great for the street, though.

 

Aren't rods forged though in most stroker kits? I would think that a forged rod can stand the higher load. Not sure I follow your logic...

 

from what i understand yes, it will pass. from what i remember, cali (which is prob most stringent) will allow an engine swap if its from the same class/chassis. But it will need to be inspected by the state referee before it is allowed.

 

Its all in the cylinderheads, the coyote heads outflow the GT500 heads by about 4% IIRC not to mention a much improved combustion chamber over the 3 valve head (less detonation prone which means more ignition timing or more boost).

Put one way, the coyote heads have about 100 more HP potential over the 3 valve heads stock to stock. The only place the coyote falls down compared to the 4.6 3v is the VVT system. The coyote uses a cam torque actuated system as opposed to an oil pressure actuated system. The former doesn't require a high pressure oil pump to actuate the cams but suffers from high rpm instability while the latter is better at high rpm control. Ultimately though on a max effort engine, chances are that the VVT system will be locked out anyways, so its moot.

 

More boost? hhhmmm... I thought high boost and a high compression engine don't get along? The 5.0 is undeniably a high compression engine. I keep reading that it won't be safe to run more than 6 or 7 pounds of boost. I would like to see if that's myth or reality.

And 4% better flow is not that big. So far, I haven't seen too many projects where the mods were restricted by the lack of flow of the heads. I'm not disputing the new 4v heads in the 5.0 are not the best ford has come out with yet, but to get 100hp over the 3v heads? ? Not sure I follow how that could happen

 

Given the engine volumes would be higher, the cost to develop and manufacture would be spread out over this car's variant and any others (F-Series trucks), making it nowhere near that. Thankfully, this seems to be the case, based on the pricing we now know.

Hopefully...

I am not certain this engine will be seen as obsolete. There have been enough of them produced to be a viable lower cost alternative for quite awhile. Ford Racing produces tons of components of many "legacy" engines. The Windsor 302 is an example of that.

Based on past history with the 4.6L engine (over 10 million produced since the early 90s), I think it would be safe to say the Coyote 5.0L engine will be around for a good amount of time, especially since it has provisions already for direct injection components.

 

I was making a general observation and not nessecarily refering to a stock engine - I'll agree that people will have to take a look and see how much boost a stock 5.0 can take, but again its got alot nice features which make the engine more boost tolerant than the 4.6 3v it replaces - near DI fuel delivery (cylinder charge is cooler compared to a regualr port injected engine), pent roof (read hemi) combustion space, better quench, centrally located spark plug, better cooling in the cylinderhead, able to move air in and out of the head more easily (boost really is a measure of resistance and higher flowing heads offer less resistance and heat the air less).

IIRC the GT500 heads flow something on the order of 70+ CFM over the 3v heads. The coyote heads flow 4% better than that and every CFM the engine can pass is worth up tp as much as 2hp

 

The windsor engines have one thing going for them, they were in production for (what what was it?) 40 years or so, relatively unchanged and are still popularly embraced by hot rodders - the MOD motors , not so much for a variety of reasons.

I see the 4.6 3v more or less the 351 Cleveland of its time (well sorta), going forward I think the 2v and 4v engines (pre coyote) wil be the ones that show up more often than not, but given the accessibility of the coyote's performance capability going forward and unless Ford reinvent's the wheel in the next coupla years, I suspect the coyote will become the MOD version of the windsor.

 

What would you say are the major reasons?

The next 12-18 months will be telling in terms of what Ford does (which I think will be very little) and what the aftermarket community does (which might be a lot). There might potential in the cam phasing technology, but I think that will be a complex modification to attempt in the aftermarket. That will leave tuning and forced induction as the major opportunities. I think that is similar to the 3v 4.6 L engines.

 

Personally, I'm thinking limited Bore spacing. I would have loved to see a big cube mod motor.

 

The bore spacing is the same on the 5.0L and 4.6L engines.

 

In the end, with either motor it looks like 500hp is the (easy) cap (pretty easy to attain) for both the 4.6 & 5.0. But more than that requires better internals.
Therefore, what did 4 the cam/4V really achieve over 2 cam/3V (excluding displacement)?

 

The emission standards must meet the car or the engine standards depending on the latest year for either. So an engine from a 2011 will need to meet 2011 standards even if it were to be placed in a 2005 car. And your right, the first smog check after the change would be to a referee.

 

better numbers straight from the factory so they can advertise it and sell more cars