metroplex

Factor in that the 5.0 Coyote is all new, with a new block, new heads, new cams, etc... it will be much more expensive than the 4.6 3V which shares parts with high volume production engines in at least 2 continents.

SONICBOOST

Dam your verts only worth 13 dollars? Good luck if you wanna trade that in!

metroplex

Well the other side of the coin is to put $15k+ worth of mods into a $13k car. The new 5.0 Coyote, new clutch, new gearbox, new tuning, and labor will be worth more than the car.

bigray327

It's not like you can turn a dial and change the compression ratio, so short of an engine rebuilt, you're stuck with what Ford gives ya. All major sources are saying it's going to be at or near 11.1:1, and if that's the case, you certainly won't want to strap any power adder to it. Nitrous, sure, but not FI.

cdynaco

Really? Nitrous works with higher compression ratios?

Next question would be can the rods handle it?

jodadejSS06GT

isn't there already a version of a 5.0 with a whipple?

edit: Shelby gt350

Dixie_Flatline

Err, this is the wrong thread to be falling back on the "stuck with what Ford gave us" argument. ;-)

Bullitt995

With enough race gas one can do anything.

metroplex

The 5.0L Coyote screams for direct fuel injection. I'm disappointed that Ford didn't go this route for the 2011 Mustang GT.

bob

Fixed? (I'm not trying to be facetious), there are still timing issues to deal with, but nitrous would be better suited to a high compression engine since it cools the intake charge as it converts from a liquid to a gas. A nitrous controller would probably the best way to go rather than dumping a big hit on the engine to avoid a big shock.

I remember when NOS hit a stock 5.0 with a big hit and cracked the block, they reccomended no more than 500hp IIRC, but guys were pumping out more with an S/C because that shock load wasn't there.

tom281

Hum maybe I should swap the 5.0 in my Fox with the new 5.0..... LOL.

future9er24

edit: 15,551. palindrome post count!

rony1976

What potential? The compression on the 5.0 is not ideal for forced induction, so you might get the same power from a 4.6 with a turbo.

I think they missed the boat with the compression rate. One of the most common mods is to put a turbo/supercharger. what's the point if your engine can't handle it? Actually, there's no point.

Yes, but you can't dial in the boost more than what it is, so the cost doesn't really match the so called potential referred to above...

cdynaco

I have to agree with you - they should have gone forged internals with the higher comp ratio. Maybe that'll be reserved for SE's. Aftermarket internals will probably be pricier because of the oil squirters.

But its still an awesome engine out of the box.

Dixie_Flatline

This thread is starting to sound like the ones that hit last year saying it would be impossible for the 5.0 to have more than 375 hp, let alone 400 hp. Why don't we wait and see what it acts like in reality before we hoist virtual conclusions upon it?

Just a thought.

rony1976

Don't we have the GT350 already showing us?

Antigini-GT/CS

High compression and high boost is possible, but you've got to have some deep pockets! I am very interested to see how the aftermarket handles the high compression when it comes to bolting a turbo or supercharger on. It'll happen, we'll just have to see how long and at what price.

Dixie_Flatline

Showing us what? That a car from Shelby will maximize it's potential out the door?

In all seriousness, what's the estimate and what did Shelby do to the inside of the engine? My guess is they didn't change anything internally and get what? Something around what the GT500 puts out? And that's considered a bad return with F/I? And that's with the stock 50 state Shelby tune? Oh sure, I guess that's just awful.

bob

Comparing a turbo to a roots type compressor is an apples to oranges comparison, by dint of the fact that a turbocharger has effciency gains in recapturing lost energy from the exhuast over a belt driven supercharger.

Also the higher compression may not be as much of a handicap as people are making it out to be. The 3v engine suffers from a compromised combustion space that is prone to some occassional knocking even in N/A trim. Ford's 4v engines are much better in this regard and the 5.0 uses a near DI fuel injection scheme compared to the 3v's more conventional port fuel injection set-up both of which allow higher compression ratios to be used in an F/I engine. Also consider the 5.0's intake and exhaust paths are less restrictive and that reduces the amount of heating the intake charge will suffer in a forced induction engine.

Ultmately both engines are capped by the use of hypereutectic pistons and powdered metal rods. Anybody who plans on throwing big boost at a 4.6 3v or 5.0 4v had better consider forged rods and pistons (rendering the 4.6 3v's peanut butter friendly compression moot)

In any event I was speaking more about ultimate potential. The heads on the 5.0 are arguably the best Ford has ever produced (Ford GT, 2000 Cobra, GT500 included) and the bottom end architecture is better than the aluminum 4.6 as well.

All this doesn't even consider a naturally aspirated engine, on airflow alone the 5.0 has what amounts to about 150 more hp capability (IIRC I believe the 3v 4.6 flows right around 220-230 cfm and the 5.0 is at or over 300 cfm).

--->edt<--- Also forgot about the oil squirters that cool the pistons in the 5.0 as well and its better engine side cooling system.

Recap
The 5.0 has: Cools the intake charge nearly as well as a DI engine - doesn't suffer from a compromised combustion chamber - has a less restrictive intake and exhuast path - has oil squirters that cool the pistons - has a more robust cooling system

The 4.6 has: A lower compression ratio.

Bullitt995

Just saw a car on another board that is trapping ~140mph in the quarter with 11:1 compression and E85. Twin 60mm turbos.