Mustang 3.5L Ecoboost engine swap
10/31/15, 09:55 PM
#481
Cobra Member
Thread Starter
Remember that the Ford mule on which the IRS was first photographed was an S197 with the IRS transplanted in.
http://www.drivingenthusiast.net/sec-blog/?p=13173
There were unique non-production brackets made by Ford engineering to mount the IRS subframe. These could be easily duplicated. You'll need a jig to hold the entire assembly in place while you take measurements. The gas tank on the S550 is slightly different, you should check the measurements on this. Rent a 2015 Mustang form Hertz and put it up on a lift. But since the S550 is just an "evolved" S197 - most definitely not an all-new car - this project should be possible with some fabrication and welding skills.
The width shouldn't be a big problem because it fit very well underneath the S197. The S550 is wider, but it also uses different offset wheels.
The front suspension was changed for more anti-dive... that'll be something you will have to do without.
When you drive the S197 back-top-back with the IRS-equipped S550, you immediately realize what a mistake Ford made by leaving the solid axle on the Mustang for the extra 10 years. It couldn't be competitive under any circumstances in this day and age (and if you read the Dec. issues of Motor Trend and Car and Driver, you'll see why). And even the bushing tuning on the over-rated Boss 302 couldn't make up for the inherent problems with the solid axle - whatever you wanted it to do, it does the opposite. Rules of physics.
Good luck with your project and please let us know how it works out.
And what I really want to see after the IRS transplant is an EcoBoost 3.5 transplant. That'll take some much needed weight off the front end and make for a nicely balanced car. And a unique car - it'll be one of a kind until Ford inevitably does it after a few more years.
http://www.drivingenthusiast.net/sec-blog/?p=13173
There were unique non-production brackets made by Ford engineering to mount the IRS subframe. These could be easily duplicated. You'll need a jig to hold the entire assembly in place while you take measurements. The gas tank on the S550 is slightly different, you should check the measurements on this. Rent a 2015 Mustang form Hertz and put it up on a lift. But since the S550 is just an "evolved" S197 - most definitely not an all-new car - this project should be possible with some fabrication and welding skills.
The width shouldn't be a big problem because it fit very well underneath the S197. The S550 is wider, but it also uses different offset wheels.
The front suspension was changed for more anti-dive... that'll be something you will have to do without.
When you drive the S197 back-top-back with the IRS-equipped S550, you immediately realize what a mistake Ford made by leaving the solid axle on the Mustang for the extra 10 years. It couldn't be competitive under any circumstances in this day and age (and if you read the Dec. issues of Motor Trend and Car and Driver, you'll see why). And even the bushing tuning on the over-rated Boss 302 couldn't make up for the inherent problems with the solid axle - whatever you wanted it to do, it does the opposite. Rules of physics.
Good luck with your project and please let us know how it works out.
And what I really want to see after the IRS transplant is an EcoBoost 3.5 transplant. That'll take some much needed weight off the front end and make for a nicely balanced car. And a unique car - it'll be one of a kind until Ford inevitably does it after a few more years.
I can order a cradle for the IRS for about $250 with shipping. When I get ready to tackle this project I'll order the cradle first and try to fit it. If I get the cradle to bolt in then I'll order the complete IRS and bolt it in. It's really an inexpensive gamble, the reward could be high when it comes to cool factor.
10/31/15, 10:04 PM
#482
Cobra Member
Thread Starter
I need a coupler I just ordered to attach the aluminum pipe to the plastic pipe, a few hose clamps, and a MAF airflow bung welded in the aluminum 90 to finish the air intake. The hood clears all this piping, barely! It took some manipulating to get it all to fit underneath. It's exciting to see it this close!
Last edited by Ecostang; 10/31/15 at 10:29 PM.
11/1/15, 08:14 AM
#486
Cobra Member
Thread Starter
If you just looked at the hours I'm very close, probably 8-12 hrs away from starting the car. I'm needing help from Lexiion to finish th electrical so that 8-12 hrs has to be fit in to his schedule. Hopefully he can make it over today and we can get a few hours done. He leaves in a week to be gone a couple weeks. During that time I'll take the car to the muffler shop and get the turbo piping done. When he gets back the car should be at my house with everything finished besides the electrical. Lexiion estimates we should have the electrical done by the end of the thanksgiving break.
Once the car is running and driving properly I'll start on the IRS, I can't really enjoy the car in the middle of winter her anyways...why not rip it all apart again so I can be finished by spring
11/1/15, 12:15 PM
#487
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You are going to have the 2020 Mustang GT before anybody else!
3rd step in the evolution: adapt the front suspension from the S550. It's doable, the frame is identical, the subframe needs to be reworked to get it in place, and the strut towers are just ever so shorter. Not a big deal given your fabrication ability... and any number of donor cars will be flowing soon enough.
3rd step in the evolution: adapt the front suspension from the S550. It's doable, the frame is identical, the subframe needs to be reworked to get it in place, and the strut towers are just ever so shorter. Not a big deal given your fabrication ability... and any number of donor cars will be flowing soon enough.
11/1/15, 05:22 PM
#488
Cobra Member
Thread Starter
You are going to have the 2020 Mustang GT before anybody else!
3rd step in the evolution: adapt the front suspension from the S550. It's doable, the frame is identical, the subframe needs to be reworked to get it in place, and the strut towers are just ever so shorter. Not a big deal given your fabrication ability... and any number of donor cars will be flowing soon enough.
3rd step in the evolution: adapt the front suspension from the S550. It's doable, the frame is identical, the subframe needs to be reworked to get it in place, and the strut towers are just ever so shorter. Not a big deal given your fabrication ability... and any number of donor cars will be flowing soon enough.
11/1/15, 05:30 PM
#491
Cobra Member
Thread Starter
I got it painted, fits good but I still need to bolt it in. As you can see I'm using the trunk for storage of small random parts.
I'll be using the gt500 tire air pump and will not be carrying a spare with me. The pump should come in and out fine with the reservoir in place.
I'll be using the gt500 tire air pump and will not be carrying a spare with me. The pump should come in and out fine with the reservoir in place.
Last edited by Ecostang; 11/1/15 at 07:36 PM.
11/2/15, 06:43 AM
#493
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Everything looks great man, excited to see you finish your project so I can start mine, my car got t-boned about a month ago and is still in the body shop, I'm in the process of gathering all the parts in order to be ready for the swap, but your project does bring a lot of ideas for mine, Wish I had a shop in my garage like you do.
11/2/15, 08:42 AM
#494
Cobra Member
Thread Starter
Everything looks great man, excited to see you finish your project so I can start mine, my car got t-boned about a month ago and is still in the body shop, I'm in the process of gathering all the parts in order to be ready for the swap, but your project does bring a lot of ideas for mine, Wish I had a shop in my garage like you do.
I would recommend that you buy the ecoboost control pack, it will be much easier. You can follow the lead of jsimmons who put a 427 in a s197, your car will operate the same way. The engine/trans will be stand alone and the body control will be done without a connection to the engine. Essentially you will be leaving all the existing computers and adding the ecoboost controller to the system.
If you go the route I'm going your car could be torn apart for months, dash, interior, etc.. I'm starting to wish I had bought the control pack but I'm pretty far down the road with the electrical so there's no turning back. I'm relying on help now to get finished which will delay me getting the car started. With the control pack I could have done it by myself or with very little help. If I can pull off the f150 ecu and everything works then I save $2k and if it's not too painful it will have been worth it.
11/2/15, 08:52 AM
#495
Mach 1 Member
Originally Posted by Ecostang;
I'm starting to wish I had bought the control pack but I'm pretty far down the road with the electrical so there's no turning back. I'm relying on help now to get finished which will delay me getting the car started.
LEXiiON
Last edited by LEXiiON; 11/2/15 at 08:53 AM.
11/2/15, 09:21 AM
#496
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This is really interesting to follow --- anybody who has some Supra TT experience will understand the beauty of a boosted 6. Especially for road racing.
Question: the F-150 ECU could conceivably be OBD-II compliant.... assuming you solve any issues for swapping the auto trans sensors for the manual trans...?
Is the Control Pack OBD-II compliant?
Some of us live in an area where this has to be fully functional and working for inspections.
Question: the F-150 ECU could conceivably be OBD-II compliant.... assuming you solve any issues for swapping the auto trans sensors for the manual trans...?
Is the Control Pack OBD-II compliant?
Some of us live in an area where this has to be fully functional and working for inspections.
11/2/15, 09:45 AM
#497
Mach 1 Member
This is really interesting to follow --- anybody who has some Supra TT experience will understand the beauty of a boosted 6. Especially for road racing.
Question: the F-150 ECU could conceivably be OBD-II compliant.... assuming you solve any issues for swapping the auto trans sensors for the manual trans...?
Is the Control Pack OBD-II compliant?
Some of us live in an area where this has to be fully functional and working for inspections.
Question: the F-150 ECU could conceivably be OBD-II compliant.... assuming you solve any issues for swapping the auto trans sensors for the manual trans...?
Is the Control Pack OBD-II compliant?
Some of us live in an area where this has to be fully functional and working for inspections.
LEXiiON
11/2/15, 12:01 PM
#498
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Good news... this opens it up to more people to build the Mustang they really want.
I noticed, too, that Ford Performance is playing around with an emissions compliant 2.3 EcoBoost for people to update their Focus STs (which of course will be even more traction limited, but also lots more fun mid and top-end). If this is the trend, this is ok!
I noticed, too, that Ford Performance is playing around with an emissions compliant 2.3 EcoBoost for people to update their Focus STs (which of course will be even more traction limited, but also lots more fun mid and top-end). If this is the trend, this is ok!
11/3/15, 12:01 AM
#499
Cobra Member
Thread Starter
11/3/15, 10:54 PM
#500
Cobra Member
Thread Starter
Ok got this figured out, Lexiion pointed out to me that he thought wheels are measured from the inside lip to inside lip, he is correct. My wheels are most likely 8.5" wide. This being the case I won't be able to widen the wheels as much as I wanted, the wheel offset won't allow it.
Last edited by Ecostang; 11/3/15 at 10:55 PM.