View Poll Results: Do you prefer us lobbing Potatoes or Grenades to take care of spammers?
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Mustangs Coast to Coast
5/23/11, 11:37 PM
NTTAWWT
5/23/11, 11:57 PM
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Understood - your safety is most important!
But geez, if the principle works and saves a roof - which could perhaps save a house - then why not?
Is the principle accurate? Outside a sudden vacuum, inside normal atmospheric pressure - but now is greater than the outside vacuum = crap blowing outward for sure, right? I've seen these youtubes of glass blowing outward. If it was from debris it would blow inward, right?
We'd open 3 or 4 upstairs windows and then go to the basement.
Last edited by cdynaco; 5/24/11 at 12:01 AM.
5/24/11, 12:15 AM
These are just a few from a 2 mile stretch in one little community, things like this are everywhere.
There used to be 8 or more homes here where these next few pics were taken...
This used to be a gorgeous home, surrounded by large hardwoods. It was rock and cedar and the whole front was large windows over looking the valley.
This used to be a large 2 1/2 story brick house with columns all across the front...
This was a new home that was just a couple years old. Had a beautiful porch that wrapped all the way around the house...
This used to be one of my favorite places in there, it was an older 70's style 2 story, but they always kept the place so nice and it looked so good with the woods behind it and the lake in front.
.
5/24/11, 12:33 AM
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That's just horrific Lee. It's hard to imagine a house use to be where some of the pics were taken. I don't even know where one would begin to clean up. 
5/24/11, 12:37 AM
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Understood - your safety is most important!
But geez, if the principle works and saves a roof - which could perhaps save a house - then why not?
Is the principle accurate? Outside a sudden vacuum, inside normal atmospheric pressure - but now is greater than the outside vacuum = crap blowing outward for sure, right? I've seen these youtubes of glass blowing outward. If it was from debris it would blow inward, right?
We'd open 3 or 4 upstairs windows and then go to the basement.
But geez, if the principle works and saves a roof - which could perhaps save a house - then why not?
Is the principle accurate? Outside a sudden vacuum, inside normal atmospheric pressure - but now is greater than the outside vacuum = crap blowing outward for sure, right? I've seen these youtubes of glass blowing outward. If it was from debris it would blow inward, right?
We'd open 3 or 4 upstairs windows and then go to the basement.
5/24/11, 12:48 AM
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I understand Lee - not really but I'm trying - I mean this year's are so extreme. Its bad enough to suck so many houses up, but when you see the trees. GEEZ! Same with the Joplin pics - the trees have been sucked clean.
But I remember the pics from the F4 over St.L on Good Friday - a number of newer houses had chunks out of the roof and windows blown out, but not entirely swept away - apparently it didn't hit the same way as the South and yesterday's Joplin.
So that's why I asked my sister. Seems like it would help because its not much different than the pressure inside an airplane at altitude that suddenly blows a door and people are sucked out.
I tried to get some StL pics but the internet is all hung up bad tonight. Are we having a nuke attack are something?
When Hughes acts up, TMS is the first to drop and the last to come back ever since the new owners changed server companies.
But I remember the pics from the F4 over St.L on Good Friday - a number of newer houses had chunks out of the roof and windows blown out, but not entirely swept away - apparently it didn't hit the same way as the South and yesterday's Joplin.
So that's why I asked my sister. Seems like it would help because its not much different than the pressure inside an airplane at altitude that suddenly blows a door and people are sucked out.
I tried to get some StL pics but the internet is all hung up bad tonight. Are we having a nuke attack are something?
When Hughes acts up, TMS is the first to drop and the last to come back ever since the new owners changed server companies.
Last edited by cdynaco; 5/24/11 at 12:56 AM.
5/24/11, 12:51 AM
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Problem(s) Detected [*** - Triggering Statistic(s)] Web Acceleration
Overall BAD
Transport BAD
PEP BAD
TurboPage BAD
DNS GOOD
VSAT Internal GOOD
---------------------------------------------------------------
Transport Layer Diagnostic Statistics
---------------------------------------------------------------
Outroute Type: DVB-S2-ACM
Outroute Symbol Rate: 15(MSps)
Outroute ACM enabled: Enabled
Inroute AIS enabled: Enabled
Status BAD
Overall BAD
Transport BAD
PEP BAD
TurboPage BAD
DNS GOOD
VSAT Internal GOOD
---------------------------------------------------------------
Transport Layer Diagnostic Statistics
---------------------------------------------------------------
Outroute Type: DVB-S2-ACM
Outroute Symbol Rate: 15(MSps)
Outroute ACM enabled: Enabled
Inroute AIS enabled: Enabled
Status BAD
BAD - ya think???
Took me since Lee's 11.15 to get this crappy thing to load right.
So if all of Hughes customers plan to beat the hell out of the CEO for his crappy (alleged) technology, is that conspiracy to harm - or customer feedback?
Last edited by cdynaco; 5/24/11 at 12:55 AM.
5/24/11, 01:12 AM
I understand Lee - not really but I'm trying - I mean this year's are so extreme. Its bad enough to suck so many houses up, but when you see the trees. GEEZ! Same with the Joplin pics - the trees have been sucked clean.
But I remember the pics from the F4 over St.L on Good Friday - a number of newer houses had chunks out of the roof and windows blown out, but not entirely swept away - apparently it didn't hit the same way as the South and yesterday's Joplin.
So that's why I asked my sister. Seems like it would help because its not much different than the pressure inside an airplane at altitude that suddenly blows a door and people are sucked out.
I tried to get some StL pics but the internet is all hung up bad tonight. Are we having a nuke attack are something?
When Hughes acts up, TMS is the first to drop and the last to come back ever since the new owners changed server companies.
But I remember the pics from the F4 over St.L on Good Friday - a number of newer houses had chunks out of the roof and windows blown out, but not entirely swept away - apparently it didn't hit the same way as the South and yesterday's Joplin.
So that's why I asked my sister. Seems like it would help because its not much different than the pressure inside an airplane at altitude that suddenly blows a door and people are sucked out.
I tried to get some StL pics but the internet is all hung up bad tonight. Are we having a nuke attack are something?
When Hughes acts up, TMS is the first to drop and the last to come back ever since the new owners changed server companies.
Well, what the so called "experts" are putting out here is that the pressure drop is in the center of the vortex, so the house would have to endure the winds and debris before the pressure drop.
Edit: Found this, pretty much what they are telling us...
The idea that moving one thin pane of glass is going to protect a roof or house from one of the most violent natural forces on the planet has a certain absurdity about it. It is probably born of wishful thinking and faulty logic, stemming from the need to do something .... anything. In reality, opening windows is a dangerous and useless waste of time, and could actually be harmful to the house.
To get to the very center of a mature tornado (where the pressure may be low enough to cause some explosive effects), the windows would have to endure 100-200 mph winds in the walls of the vortex. Those winds would be laden with boards, stones, cars, trees, telephone poles, and the neighbor's roof shingles as well as wind pressure of more than 100 pounds per square foot. This barrage would blow more than enough ventilation holes in the building to allow any pressure difference to be equalized.
Even with the windows closed, most houses and commercial buildings have enough openings to vent the pressure difference in the time that it takes for a tornado to pass. The engineering team at Texas Tech's Institute for Disaster Research (Minor et al., 1977) point out that the pressure drop inside a tornado with 260 mph winds is only about 10%, or just 1.4 pounds per square inch. Most buildings can vent this difference through its normal openings in about three seconds. That is sufficient time even if the tornado is moving forward at a very rapid 60 mph. In the real world, the discussion is pointless. That violent a tornado would totally blow apart a house before the central low pressure ever arrived. Venting of air to relieve pressure would not be an issue.
If the home owner opens the wrong window, air can rush in and exert pressure on the structure from the inside--like blowing air into a balloon. It is unlikely that the resident knows where the construction weak points are. In addition, the wind fields in a passing tornado are very complex and constantly changing. It is not possible to predict the strongest direction of attack. The best advice from every engineer with whom the author has ever discussed this is to leave the windows alone and get into the basement or other shelter as fast as possible. One should not think first of the house roof, but of the impact of one's death on one's family, or of one's self unnecessarily crippled or scarred for life.
I don't recall the exact origin of the "window opening" advice, but do recall that the original advice was to open windows in both the front and the back of the house. Theoretically, this would allow air to move through the house, and reduce any buildup of interior pressure. Somehow, the advice was altered to include only the windows on the north side of the house, (away from the tornado). There is no evidence that any opening of windows ever helped to hold a roof in place. The best advice is still to forget the windows and get to a shelter.
To get to the very center of a mature tornado (where the pressure may be low enough to cause some explosive effects), the windows would have to endure 100-200 mph winds in the walls of the vortex. Those winds would be laden with boards, stones, cars, trees, telephone poles, and the neighbor's roof shingles as well as wind pressure of more than 100 pounds per square foot. This barrage would blow more than enough ventilation holes in the building to allow any pressure difference to be equalized.
Even with the windows closed, most houses and commercial buildings have enough openings to vent the pressure difference in the time that it takes for a tornado to pass. The engineering team at Texas Tech's Institute for Disaster Research (Minor et al., 1977) point out that the pressure drop inside a tornado with 260 mph winds is only about 10%, or just 1.4 pounds per square inch. Most buildings can vent this difference through its normal openings in about three seconds. That is sufficient time even if the tornado is moving forward at a very rapid 60 mph. In the real world, the discussion is pointless. That violent a tornado would totally blow apart a house before the central low pressure ever arrived. Venting of air to relieve pressure would not be an issue.
If the home owner opens the wrong window, air can rush in and exert pressure on the structure from the inside--like blowing air into a balloon. It is unlikely that the resident knows where the construction weak points are. In addition, the wind fields in a passing tornado are very complex and constantly changing. It is not possible to predict the strongest direction of attack. The best advice from every engineer with whom the author has ever discussed this is to leave the windows alone and get into the basement or other shelter as fast as possible. One should not think first of the house roof, but of the impact of one's death on one's family, or of one's self unnecessarily crippled or scarred for life.
I don't recall the exact origin of the "window opening" advice, but do recall that the original advice was to open windows in both the front and the back of the house. Theoretically, this would allow air to move through the house, and reduce any buildup of interior pressure. Somehow, the advice was altered to include only the windows on the north side of the house, (away from the tornado). There is no evidence that any opening of windows ever helped to hold a roof in place. The best advice is still to forget the windows and get to a shelter.
Last edited by Rather B.Blown; 5/24/11 at 01:17 AM.
5/24/11, 01:43 AM
A Man Just Needs Some....
Originally Posted by StangMahn
anyone else really really like these Honda/Acura NSX's? We all go through car desire swings, but I want one!
5/24/11, 02:07 AM
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I don't recall the exact origin of the "window opening" advice, but do recall that the original advice was to open windows in both the front and the back of the house. Theoretically, this would allow air to move through the house, and reduce any buildup of interior pressure. Somehow, the advice was altered to include only the windows on the north side of the house, (away from the tornado). There is no evidence that any opening of windows ever helped to hold a roof in place. The best advice is still to forget the windows and get to a shelter.
Never heard the North window thing. We'd open a few just a couple of inches in various places on each side and then head to the basement - never waited until the very last minute. (In fact when they just started the early warning system, the sirens gave you maybe 1 or 2 minutes at best so you didn't screw around. It was upon you! Just heard on the news that Al Roker said they had a 5 minute lead time.) And contrary to that author, 40's & 50's & 60's houses weren't ventilated like they are today. Our ranch style had zero roof vents, zero soffit vents, just a small triangle in each gable end.
No doubt the early warning sirens are good, but sometimes people rely on tech rather than their own good sense - which includes learning a little bit about constant flashes of lightning, instant booms of thunder, sideways rain that meant - screw the tech, screw the sirens, screw the radio - head for the basement NOW!!!
I mean didn't ya'll grow up on Wizard of Oz?? They didn't have any dang sirens!
(said partially in jest. no disrespect. sometimes monsters are on you in an instant)
EDIT: so just now watching the news I recorded earlier. The windows of the Joplin St. John's hospital were mostly blown out. Not in. That wasn't from debris. That was from air pressure.
Last edited by cdynaco; 5/24/11 at 03:14 AM.
5/24/11, 07:04 AM
Youda man! 
Hey I've been meaning to tell you... you know how Hughes sometimes hangs? You hit enter and it starts to load and the page just sits there like it lost the signal? After a second or two of that, I'll open 3 sometimes 5 tabs - boom boom boom, and suddenly that 'bumps' the hanging page so it loads promptly. Have you tried that?
Hey I've been meaning to tell you... you know how Hughes sometimes hangs? You hit enter and it starts to load and the page just sits there like it lost the signal? After a second or two of that, I'll open 3 sometimes 5 tabs - boom boom boom, and suddenly that 'bumps' the hanging page so it loads promptly. Have you tried that?
Quick video of the minneapolis tornado. Only supposed to be an EF2, despite it's size. They said it was on the ground for fourteen miles, though it weakened quite a bit after it made it's way north/northeast (mostly just branches and the oddball tree down, but along a very confined path on the northern end).
Here's a question for you tornado experts.
Growing up as a kid in Big Mo, they always said to leave some windows open when a tornado was close so it would 'equalize' the pressure in your house. Because a twister's updraft creats a suction, a vacuum - but a house with closed windows still has some internal atmospheric pressure (in the context of a tornado's vacuum suddenly upon it). My sister said they don't say that anymore.
But I see all these pics of houses (the ones not entirely sucked away) that have holes in their roofs, roofs gone, and the windows blown (sucked) out. The hosp in Janis Joplin MO were all blown (sucked) out.
Doesn't that show that if some windows were open that it would have 'equalized' the pressure and caused a little less damage?? Left a few roofs and windows intact??
What is the 'expert' advice these days?
Growing up as a kid in Big Mo, they always said to leave some windows open when a tornado was close so it would 'equalize' the pressure in your house. Because a twister's updraft creats a suction, a vacuum - but a house with closed windows still has some internal atmospheric pressure (in the context of a tornado's vacuum suddenly upon it). My sister said they don't say that anymore.
But I see all these pics of houses (the ones not entirely sucked away) that have holes in their roofs, roofs gone, and the windows blown (sucked) out. The hosp in Janis Joplin MO were all blown (sucked) out.
Doesn't that show that if some windows were open that it would have 'equalized' the pressure and caused a little less damage?? Left a few roofs and windows intact??
What is the 'expert' advice these days?
5/24/11, 07:55 AM
2nd time for me of that size and frankly, it changes the face of the area you live in forever. I can still see damage from the 98 storm in the area. Sadly I cannot leave my houes without having to go through some damaged area in any direction.
5/24/11, 10:24 AM
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Scothew,I have some friends who live in that area as well, you all have your work cut out for you. I'm sure a lot of folks will say I'm gone and move somewhere "safe". I use that term loosely. At lot of folks did that after Katrina as well. They get so demoralized that can't stand the thought of rebuilding. For others, well it's just another day..... Godspeed!
5/24/11, 01:45 PM
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The EF scale is not rated by size of the tornado, its rated by the damage it created. For instance this is the NOAA report for the tuscaloosa/birmingham tornado that came near me. This includes its whole track, except for pleasent grove, they havent finished evaluateing it yet. Its currently listed at a EF4, but after seeing pleasent grove, it may go EF5. http://www.srh.noaa.gov/bmx/?n=event_04272011tuscbirm
Not mine. Found the pic...
5/24/11, 02:56 PM
5/24/11, 02:59 PM
I will buy Jack Stands!!!
But soooo nice
Actually, I think it is. The background is eerily similar, but if you look at the reflection on the right side of the front plant indented area on the bumper, it's the exact same reflection, just had the color played with a little
And under the passenger light on both pictures is the reflection of what looks like a pole barn