Some Interesting Trackey Info
6/21/11, 08:45 AM
#121
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6/21/11, 08:58 AM
#122
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Ford just needs to give us an aluminum frame track car that doesn't cost $150k
6/21/11, 10:55 AM
#123
This is just for you Drew. One of the guys at the track was shooting pics and sent me a few of the Mustangs at BIR. My favorite was the first one from the one session we ran on the short track picking my way through traffic. After the track dried out we moved to the big track where the rest of the pics are shot. My buddy's driving the Grabber Blue GT.
I will be heading back to some familiar tracks so it will be easy to compare laptimes...I'm hoping I can run the same or better as our competition car that has a similar power-to-weight.
So could any of those Porsche guys drive or were you just navigating a bunch of rolling chicanes?
Last edited by 06GT; 6/21/11 at 10:59 AM.
6/21/11, 11:00 AM
#124
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Yes there were some very good drivers. I was bouncing between run groups based on the schedule and I think this one was the intermediate group. Had a lot of fun playing with a gutted 3 series BMW later in the day. I think he said the car weighed under 2500 lbs so it was formidable. I was definitely the fattest girl at the dance at 3600+ 
6/21/11, 11:04 AM
#125
Yeah those E36 and E46 Bimmers can be really fast just due to their increased corner speeds from lighter weight/less inertia. VERY fast in the hands of a capable driver.
6/21/11, 11:26 AM
#126
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Yea I just marvel at their line. Getting the inside front up off the ground on almost every turn is pretty cool to watch.
Last edited by cloud9; 6/21/11 at 02:00 PM. Reason: meant front
6/21/11, 11:32 AM
#127
6/21/11, 12:33 PM
#129
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Originally Posted by cloud9
If it makes you feel any better, I did show two new M3s who's Boss Sunday 
6/21/11, 01:31 PM
#130
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Also, doesn't the GT come with a 24mm rear bar? Did your buddy swap to a 22mm to run a square setup?
Last edited by MJockey; 6/21/11 at 01:54 PM.
6/21/11, 02:39 PM
#132
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By the way, even a race-prepped E30 can mow down some of the exotics, at least in the twisties. Of course the E30 loses to the high HP cars' straight-line handling.
And it is possible to lift both inside wheels, with just a little help from the inside curbing at, say, Road Atlanta, turn 3.
6/21/11, 02:52 PM
#133
I battled with an E30 through all of 2010, I know that they, too can be quite fast.
6/21/11, 05:30 PM
#134
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For those of us still "crying" for our TrackKey, I recently attended a Shelby car event in the Midwest which Ford kindly sent two engineering representatives in two new Boss 302’s for show-and-tell. The Competition Orange (white stripes) pre-production “mule” was driven by a design team engineer responsible for electronic engine management (including TracKey) and the other representative an engineering strategic planner drove a new production yellow blaze. Both answered general Boss questions all day and made a presentation on the car at the dinner awards banquet.
Knowing the TracKey availability is of great importance to us Boss owners, many of my questions focused on this topic. The Boss design team is working diligently with all the Certifying agencies to get full 50 state approval of the TracKey and have spent weeks if not months working with these agencies. The novelty of the TracKey is a benefit (to us owners who want engine performance parameters tailored for track use) and yet at the same time a significant challenge for certification. Note, the very existence of this dual-path tune approach was conceived as a “nice to have” dream within the development team, was not internally funded and four resourceful engineers worked many off-the-clock hours bringing this dream concept to reality. Since this parallel path programming has never been done before, the Certifying agencies are being extremely cautious in exploring at every possible facet before approving this new engine tuning feature. Ironically – the innovative nature of this concept is resulting in the time consuming process of receiving an official certification. Certification of the TracKey is still anticipated by late summer, so no change in the official rollout. And the TrackKey rollout is not impeded in any way by any Ford patent pursuit. This is a certification paced issue only.
I expressed the widely held sentiment of rolling out a 49 state tune and let CARB certification come out at a later date, but the realities of a dual certification are just cost prohibitive and that is just not a viable option to pursue. The TracKey when issued will be a 50 state approved tune. The engineering mule had the TracKey logic in the engine Electronic Control Module (ECU) and invoking the track engine logic was impressive. Demonstrations always drew a large crowd of onlookers. Nice loopy idle and I did not detect any change in exhaust “smell” as some have offered up.
The engine induction system as well as the exhaust system all flow very well with very little flow losses. Thus (to me anyway) is would seem that forced induction (with an already high 11:1 compression ratio) or tubular headers are of little value for the cost/weight expenditure. Removing the sidepipe plates is worth a few more horsepower (less than 5), but certainly not a large gain of 10-12 hp as some have hoped. The 7,500 rpm engine redline has been set at this level for an engineering reason. In my experience “tuners” almost always move the limiter up at least a few hundred rpm (if not more) “just cause” they know there is more “power” at higher rpm and the factory is always conservative. The Original Engine (OE) manufacturer does have durability and life constraint targets which their products must possess when sold to the public. However, approaching redline, engine torque is definitely falling off faster than rpm can increase the horsepower output equation and so running the engine higher than 7,500 rpm just does not make sense. Stick with the OE recommended redline.
The ECU has sophisticated algorithms which use the two engine knock sensors to retard/advance spark timing based on fuel octane the owner puts in the tank. The advertised 444 hp is achieved on 91 octane fuel. For the black key, the engine is capable of running on 87 octane fuel. If premium fuel is supplied the ECU will advance spark to take advantage of the higher octane fuel and give more power output. For the TrackKey, the tune is designed to run 91 octane fuel and has the ability to increase spark beyond that – up to and including running on race (100+) octane. If by chance you happen to have a load of 87 octane fuel aboard and use the TracKey, the ECU will reduce spark (and power) to prevent detonation. The Ford party line is TracKey will not deliver the owner any more engine power than the black key with 91 octane fuel (444 hp). Since the TracKey program alters over 600 engine variables within its control, the “bottom end” torque curve very likely is altered to better match engine output to a road course track environment.
Several of my questions touched on engine technical aspects the representatives were unable to comment, which is fine. This engine pushes the state-of-the-art and the new dual-path ECU programming is being patented. My overall impression is the Boss team has certainly put in their Blood, Sweat and Tears into this program to give us owners one heck of a performance package. I can’t wait to try mine out on a nearby track!
Knowing the TracKey availability is of great importance to us Boss owners, many of my questions focused on this topic. The Boss design team is working diligently with all the Certifying agencies to get full 50 state approval of the TracKey and have spent weeks if not months working with these agencies. The novelty of the TracKey is a benefit (to us owners who want engine performance parameters tailored for track use) and yet at the same time a significant challenge for certification. Note, the very existence of this dual-path tune approach was conceived as a “nice to have” dream within the development team, was not internally funded and four resourceful engineers worked many off-the-clock hours bringing this dream concept to reality. Since this parallel path programming has never been done before, the Certifying agencies are being extremely cautious in exploring at every possible facet before approving this new engine tuning feature. Ironically – the innovative nature of this concept is resulting in the time consuming process of receiving an official certification. Certification of the TracKey is still anticipated by late summer, so no change in the official rollout. And the TrackKey rollout is not impeded in any way by any Ford patent pursuit. This is a certification paced issue only.
I expressed the widely held sentiment of rolling out a 49 state tune and let CARB certification come out at a later date, but the realities of a dual certification are just cost prohibitive and that is just not a viable option to pursue. The TracKey when issued will be a 50 state approved tune. The engineering mule had the TracKey logic in the engine Electronic Control Module (ECU) and invoking the track engine logic was impressive. Demonstrations always drew a large crowd of onlookers. Nice loopy idle and I did not detect any change in exhaust “smell” as some have offered up.
The engine induction system as well as the exhaust system all flow very well with very little flow losses. Thus (to me anyway) is would seem that forced induction (with an already high 11:1 compression ratio) or tubular headers are of little value for the cost/weight expenditure. Removing the sidepipe plates is worth a few more horsepower (less than 5), but certainly not a large gain of 10-12 hp as some have hoped. The 7,500 rpm engine redline has been set at this level for an engineering reason. In my experience “tuners” almost always move the limiter up at least a few hundred rpm (if not more) “just cause” they know there is more “power” at higher rpm and the factory is always conservative. The Original Engine (OE) manufacturer does have durability and life constraint targets which their products must possess when sold to the public. However, approaching redline, engine torque is definitely falling off faster than rpm can increase the horsepower output equation and so running the engine higher than 7,500 rpm just does not make sense. Stick with the OE recommended redline.
The ECU has sophisticated algorithms which use the two engine knock sensors to retard/advance spark timing based on fuel octane the owner puts in the tank. The advertised 444 hp is achieved on 91 octane fuel. For the black key, the engine is capable of running on 87 octane fuel. If premium fuel is supplied the ECU will advance spark to take advantage of the higher octane fuel and give more power output. For the TrackKey, the tune is designed to run 91 octane fuel and has the ability to increase spark beyond that – up to and including running on race (100+) octane. If by chance you happen to have a load of 87 octane fuel aboard and use the TracKey, the ECU will reduce spark (and power) to prevent detonation. The Ford party line is TracKey will not deliver the owner any more engine power than the black key with 91 octane fuel (444 hp). Since the TracKey program alters over 600 engine variables within its control, the “bottom end” torque curve very likely is altered to better match engine output to a road course track environment.
Several of my questions touched on engine technical aspects the representatives were unable to comment, which is fine. This engine pushes the state-of-the-art and the new dual-path ECU programming is being patented. My overall impression is the Boss team has certainly put in their Blood, Sweat and Tears into this program to give us owners one heck of a performance package. I can’t wait to try mine out on a nearby track!
As far as the Boss not making power above 7500, it actually make a surprising amount of power all hte way to 8250. When we ran the car while tuning Lund removed both the soft and hard limiters and the car spun to 8250 on one run. The power curve looked the same as my dyno in the post below...only higher! Also these cars will respond well to intake, ignition timing, cam timing, and octane changes. With only very minor tuning and an intake we made over 30rwhp. Add the o/r x and mufflers and we picked up a couple more.
https://themustangsource.com/f813/ev...le-now-494520/
I cant figure out how to post only the dyno, so maybe someone could help a brother out!!
Andy
6/21/11, 06:20 PM
#135
Cobra R Member
Thread Starter
For the record thanks for your info which was great!!
As far as the Boss not making power above 7500, it actually make a surprising amount of power all hte way to 8250. When we ran the car while tuning Lund removed both the soft and hard limiters and the car spun to 8250 on one run. The power curve looked the same as my dyno in the post below...only higher! Also these cars will respond well to intake, ignition timing, cam timing, and octane changes. With only very minor tuning and an intake we made over 30rwhp. Add the o/r x and mufflers and we picked up a couple more.
https://themustangsource.com/f813/ev...le-now-494520/
I cant figure out how to post only the dyno, so maybe someone could help a brother out!!
Andy
As far as the Boss not making power above 7500, it actually make a surprising amount of power all hte way to 8250. When we ran the car while tuning Lund removed both the soft and hard limiters and the car spun to 8250 on one run. The power curve looked the same as my dyno in the post below...only higher! Also these cars will respond well to intake, ignition timing, cam timing, and octane changes. With only very minor tuning and an intake we made over 30rwhp. Add the o/r x and mufflers and we picked up a couple more.
https://themustangsource.com/f813/ev...le-now-494520/
I cant figure out how to post only the dyno, so maybe someone could help a brother out!!
Andy
Thanks for the info. I thought 7800 would be the top. This motor is amazing for a 41K car.
Last edited by 2012YellowBoss; 6/21/11 at 07:09 PM.
6/21/11, 08:11 PM
#137
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This was run to 7800 and you can see the HP curve stays VERY level at these rpm levels unlike the stock Coyote. This Roadrunner engine was made to REV!!
6/21/11, 08:20 PM
#138
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What org are you running with? I should have my car by then and am looking to get back there in September! Lightning is way cooler than Thunderbolt, btw.
6/21/11, 08:22 PM
#139
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BTW, looks like the stock curve has flattened to its designated redline, right?
6/22/11, 07:17 AM
#140
Bullitt Member
Andy, a few comments about your dyno data.
I am not quite sure of what is being presented in the graph. The legend indicates “Run #1 CO-Boss-302 (Boss 30 Stock” is depicted in red color, “Run #2 CO-Boss 302 (Boss30 Custom Tune with VCT Changes” is depicted in green color and “Run #3” in blue color is untitled and thus unknown. The only colored lines represented are red (presumed to be “stock” engine horsepower) per the legend and blue (engine torque of unknown configuration per the legend). You can assume anything you want from the curves and delta’s are shown between the lines, however, what configurations are represented by the data is certainly not clear and contradicts that which is presented in the graph legend.
Let’s assume for talking purposes the upper line is representative of the custom tune and the lower lines are the stock engine data. You state, “This was run to 7800 and you can see the HP curve stays VERY level at these rpm levels unlike the stock Coyote.” The stock engine data only goes out to 7300 rpm. It is unclear why stock data was not taken out to the OE rpm limit of 7500. I believe both the soft and hard ECU engine speed limits are above 7300 rpm in the stock engine calibration. But the data is what it is.
The stock engine drops 0.5% in power and 4.3% in torque from 6800 to 7300 rpm while the tuned engine drops 1.5% in power and 11.7% in torque from 6800 to 7800 rpm. Thus I am not sure how your statement of horsepower stability is accurate. The tuned Coyote drops significant power (and torque) relative to the stock engine over the tested rpm bands. Because the rpm limit for the tuned engine was raised over the stock, in the speed range of 7300 to 7800 rpm the tuned engine looses 1.3% in horsepower and 3.5% in torque. Again your data shows both parameters are definitely trending DOWN, not up or even flat.
As my discussions (chronicled in a previous post) with actual Ford Coyote design engineers indicate the engine speed limits were imposed for specific rotor integrity concerns (as well as durability), why would an owner want to ignore these structural limits to achieve diminishing power?