Has the loss of acceleration performance cooled your enthusiasm for the S550?
2/5/15, 03:46 PM
#101
THE RED FLASH ------ Master-Moderator
[QUOTE=MRGTX;6895730]
Well then my apologies for that Mike, as I took your post as being directed towards mine !
Who's opinion do you disagree with, are you referring to Rob's ? Because if so ? I happen to agree with what he stated in his posts.. As a matter of fact I came to the same conclusions as he did and did not notice any substantial differences under normal driving conditions between the Dodge Challenger, Chevy Camaro and my 2006 Mustang GT.. And I will continue to stand by that..
Like I said, if it's that much of a deal breaker ? You can either do what I suggested by upgrading your stock suspension parts and get the same results or IMO you shouldn't own a muscle car/sports car like a Mustang to begin with.. And that's not directed at you personally, but rather as figuratively..
And I understand where your coming from Mike, however that wasn't the issue that Rob and myself were referring to.. As him and I were strictly referring to under normal driving conditions and not under auto crossing or performance conditions, so let's make certain that we're on the same page here ?
As I said, just adding a few suspension bolt on's will provide a noticeable improvement such as upgrading your LCA's, better strut mounts and most important by getting rid of the OEM shocks/struts in favor of Koni sport adjustable dampers.. As I have absolutely no intentions of getting rid of my S-197 despite the fact I really like the new 2015 Mustangs, but I honestly cannot say they appeal more to me than my current 2006 GT does 
Who's opinion do you disagree with, are you referring to Rob's ? Because if so ? I happen to agree with what he stated in his posts.. As a matter of fact I came to the same conclusions as he did and did not notice any substantial differences under normal driving conditions between the Dodge Challenger, Chevy Camaro and my 2006 Mustang GT.. And I will continue to stand by that..
I have owned, autocrossed and flogged the hell out of performance cars with IRS and I keep coming back to the Mustang, SRA and all because the cars have plenty of other merits...but the IRS is pretty much always going to ride better and react better to less than perfect surface conditions.
Last edited by m05fastbackGT; 2/5/15 at 03:57 PM.
2/5/15, 03:47 PM
#102
GT Member
I have two cars, A ford Flex and a Mustang. THere is a huge differnce in how the both ride on the road.
The flex, Im sure has IRS. Its rides like a caddy, smooth as butter. Comfortable. refined. eligant.
Leave my flex and get in my mustang and I can feel the diference. The mustang is more jagged, bumpy. But it also feels more nimble, responsive. Aggressive. I love it.
I imagine that the differnce between my mustang and the '15 is somewhere in between the two.
The flex, Im sure has IRS. Its rides like a caddy, smooth as butter. Comfortable. refined. eligant.
Leave my flex and get in my mustang and I can feel the diference. The mustang is more jagged, bumpy. But it also feels more nimble, responsive. Aggressive. I love it.
I imagine that the differnce between my mustang and the '15 is somewhere in between the two.
2/5/15, 03:55 PM
#103
THE RED FLASH ------ Master-Moderator
2/5/15, 03:59 PM
#104
I have two cars, A ford Flex and a Mustang. THere is a huge differnce in how the both ride on the road.
The flex, Im sure has IRS. Its rides like a caddy, smooth as butter. Comfortable. refined. eligant.
Leave my flex and get in my mustang and I can feel the diference. The mustang is more jagged, bumpy. But it also feels more nimble, responsive. Aggressive. I love it.
I imagine that the differnce between my mustang and the '15 is somewhere in between the two.
The flex, Im sure has IRS. Its rides like a caddy, smooth as butter. Comfortable. refined. eligant.
Leave my flex and get in my mustang and I can feel the diference. The mustang is more jagged, bumpy. But it also feels more nimble, responsive. Aggressive. I love it.
I imagine that the differnce between my mustang and the '15 is somewhere in between the two.
Any worth while sports coupe is going to feel the bumps in the road. That is par for the course when you're driving a car that has to stay planted to the road and handle with a lot more precision than your average passenger sedan or SUV. You will still very much feel the bumps in the road when driving the S550, as it should be. I think the mistake that is being made here is the assumption that an IRS also means less of the road feel transferred through the chassis of the car and that is not the case. Yes it is an IRS but it is an IRS that is setup to to handle well and grip the road well and that means you're going to feel the road just as you do in your S197. The advantage of the IRS is that when you push the car hard in the corners it will stick better than the SRA setup and will not give that push as you apex the corner. But under normal driving conditions, just day to day back and forth to work sort of stuff, you won't really notice a difference in how the car handles.
2/5/15, 04:04 PM
#105
GT Member
Any worth while sports coupe is going to feel the bumps in the road. That is par for the course when you're driving a car that has to stay planted to the road and handle with a lot more precision than your average passenger sedan or SUV. You will still very much feel the bumps in the road when driving the S550, as it should be. I think the mistake that is being made here is the assumption that an IRS also means less of the road feel transferred through the chassis of the car and that is not the case. Yes it is an IRS but it is an IRS that is setup to to handle well and grip the road well and that means you're going to feel the road just as you do in your S197. The advantage of the IRS is that when you push the car hard in the corners it will stick better than the SRA setup and will not give that push as you apex the corner. But under normal driving conditions, just day to day back and forth to work sort of stuff, you won't really notice a difference in how the car handles.
That make sense, but until I can drive one I am forming an impression by what others are saying and most of them say the '15 rides better on the road, is not as bumpy etc. They make it seem like the car rides more like a sedan than a sports coupe
2/5/15, 04:26 PM
#106
I'm not claiming the S550 isn't a great car because it is. I'm just not signing on to the "it's that much better" band wagon because I've driven it and I know better.
2/6/15, 05:48 AM
#110
Shelby GT350 Member
Thread Starter
I just need to say this:
this debate ONLY exists here in Mustang world.
I love the way the S197s drive. The wonders Ford worked with that rear suspension are not to be underestimated. They produced an immensely capable car...and the S197 has a unique and wonderful character, largely because of it...but come on, guys.
Yes, we all know that solid rear axle setups can be more capable than the reputation of the "archaic stick axle" would have the casual observer believe and the vast majority of the time, the difference between it and an IRS set up is imperceptible...but no automaker is switching back to SRA suspension for a performance car...ever. There are many, many reasons for that.
So long as folks recognize this, I'm fine with whatever else is said on the topic.
this debate ONLY exists here in Mustang world.
I love the way the S197s drive. The wonders Ford worked with that rear suspension are not to be underestimated. They produced an immensely capable car...and the S197 has a unique and wonderful character, largely because of it...but come on, guys.
Yes, we all know that solid rear axle setups can be more capable than the reputation of the "archaic stick axle" would have the casual observer believe and the vast majority of the time, the difference between it and an IRS set up is imperceptible...but no automaker is switching back to SRA suspension for a performance car...ever. There are many, many reasons for that.
So long as folks recognize this, I'm fine with whatever else is said on the topic.
Last edited by MRGTX; 2/6/15 at 05:50 AM.
2/6/15, 07:39 AM
#112
2/6/15, 07:48 AM
#113
Super Boss Lawman Member
I was a little disappointed, but still like the '15s. For day to day driving the IRS wouldn't matter much to me since the SRA performs better that it should be allowed to, but I do like some of the newer features in the interior...cooled seats, adaptive cruise, etc. I don't plan on getting a new car anytime soon though. I generally keep a car for while and I've only had my '13 since July 2012. My wife did tell me that if I hang onto it for 10 years, I have her blessing to get whatever the new Shelby (or its equivalent) is out at the time.
2/6/15, 07:49 AM
#114
GT Member
2/6/15, 07:59 AM
#115
V6 Member
Placebo effect which is common and stems from the mentality of "I have a new version of a car. It must be better because its new. Therefore I will say that everything about it is better in every respect regardless of what reality is."
I'm not claiming the S550 isn't a great car because it is. I'm just not signing on to the "it's that much better" band wagon because I've driven it and I know better.
I'm not claiming the S550 isn't a great car because it is. I'm just not signing on to the "it's that much better" band wagon because I've driven it and I know better.
2/6/15, 08:50 AM
#116
Saying that the 2015 suspension is better isn't saying that the s197 (particularly the '11+) is BAD. It is actually really good for what they had to work with.
And my 2012 has plenty of wheel hop as well. I have all of the suspension parts to stop it, but it is getting traded in now so I bought them for nothing.
And my 2012 has plenty of wheel hop as well. I have all of the suspension parts to stop it, but it is getting traded in now so I bought them for nothing.
2/6/15, 08:54 AM
#117
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I am not surprised at the remarks about the new IRS. I am surprised that enthusiasts expected anything else from a brand new set up. Other posters (I think it was Rhumb) suggested that there probably wouldn't be a radically different feel between the outgoing SRA and the new IRS. And, that makes sense.
The outgoing SRA was one of the best of the breed. Ed Loh (writer for MT), noted when testing the 2010 wrote that it handled better than any SRA had a right to--Ed was not a big SRA fan. Other pundits have written that their opinion, the best handling Mustang to date has been the Boss--picking it over the new GT. (That could be subject to change when the GT350 is given over to the press.)
But it stands to reason that an SRA, having been honed over a decade by Ford engineers performs as well as a brand new chassis and IRS set up. A couple of years down the road, when there is more feedback from production units and customers, I expect that the Mustang's IRS suspension will be better tuned; and deliver a more notable advantage over the previous generation's performance and comfort.
(Having said that--I doubt you will ever see John or Ashley Force's Mustang with anything but an SRA. When you dump the clutch on 5,000+ horsepower in an attempt to reach 320 mph in under 5 seconds, it's best to use an SRA.)
The outgoing SRA was one of the best of the breed. Ed Loh (writer for MT), noted when testing the 2010 wrote that it handled better than any SRA had a right to--Ed was not a big SRA fan. Other pundits have written that their opinion, the best handling Mustang to date has been the Boss--picking it over the new GT. (That could be subject to change when the GT350 is given over to the press.)
But it stands to reason that an SRA, having been honed over a decade by Ford engineers performs as well as a brand new chassis and IRS set up. A couple of years down the road, when there is more feedback from production units and customers, I expect that the Mustang's IRS suspension will be better tuned; and deliver a more notable advantage over the previous generation's performance and comfort.
(Having said that--I doubt you will ever see John or Ashley Force's Mustang with anything but an SRA. When you dump the clutch on 5,000+ horsepower in an attempt to reach 320 mph in under 5 seconds, it's best to use an SRA.)
2/6/15, 09:03 AM
#118
John Force is gonna be in a Camaro now, so I suppose you're sort of right.
2/6/15, 12:26 PM
#119
THE RED FLASH ------ Master-Moderator
I am not surprised at the remarks about the new IRS. I am surprised that enthusiasts expected anything else from a brand new set up. Other posters (I think it was Rhumb) suggested that there probably wouldn't be a radically different feel between the outgoing SRA and the new IRS. And, that makes sense.
The outgoing SRA was one of the best of the breed. Ed Loh (writer for MT), noted when testing the 2010 wrote that it handled better than any SRA had a right to--Ed was not a big SRA fan. Other pundits have written that their opinion, the best handling Mustang to date has been the Boss--picking it over the new GT. (That could be subject to change when the GT350 is given over to the press.)
But it stands to reason that an SRA, having been honed over a decade by Ford engineers performs as well as a brand new chassis and IRS set up. A couple of years down the road, when there is more feedback from production units and customers, I expect that the Mustang's IRS suspension will be better tuned; and deliver a more notable advantage over the previous generation's performance and comfort.
(Having said that--I doubt you will ever see John or Ashley Force's Mustang with anything but an SRA. When you dump the clutch on 5,000+ horsepower in an attempt to reach 320 mph in under 5 seconds, it's best to use an SRA.)
The outgoing SRA was one of the best of the breed. Ed Loh (writer for MT), noted when testing the 2010 wrote that it handled better than any SRA had a right to--Ed was not a big SRA fan. Other pundits have written that their opinion, the best handling Mustang to date has been the Boss--picking it over the new GT. (That could be subject to change when the GT350 is given over to the press.)
But it stands to reason that an SRA, having been honed over a decade by Ford engineers performs as well as a brand new chassis and IRS set up. A couple of years down the road, when there is more feedback from production units and customers, I expect that the Mustang's IRS suspension will be better tuned; and deliver a more notable advantage over the previous generation's performance and comfort.
(Having said that--I doubt you will ever see John or Ashley Force's Mustang with anything but an SRA. When you dump the clutch on 5,000+ horsepower in an attempt to reach 320 mph in under 5 seconds, it's best to use an SRA.)
I also recall the outgoing S-197 was originally designed by the engineers for IRS, but the bean counters over at Ford at the time decided against it at the last minute by claiming it was deemed too costly.. Therefore the decision was then made in favor of the SRA over the IRS and shortly thereafter, the engineers were given the green light to make improvements with the existing SRA setup by refining it's suspension components but also had to stay within budget in which they did an excellent job despite the fact the bean counters kept a tight noose around they're necks
Last edited by m05fastbackGT; 2/6/15 at 12:46 PM.
2/6/15, 12:45 PM
#120
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Just kidding. Actually, there isn't whole lot of detail as to the extent of the changes. His sponsors have changed; Ford ended its support in September and Castrol in November. He had to find that $14M in revenue somewhere. He shopped Toyota, Honda, and Kia, before announcing the deal with Chevrolet (and Peak and Lucas Oil).
However, the 2015 Camaro body is just the 2014 Mustang body with new paint and wraps. The Boss 500 motor will probably be replaced, (wouldn't do to pop the top and see a blue oval supplying the power) but chassis changes might be minor. There simply wasn't enough time between finding a sponsor, inking a deal and the start of the season to build and test everything brand new. As I understand it--JFR is planning to field a totally new car, body and all for the 2016 season.
I haven't seen any detail on the top fuel machine.