Fords4Ever

Anyone?

bob

I've asked the same question myself but you'll probably have to wait for a tell all book on how much scratch Shelby made off the liscencing.

As far was the GT500 hate, it probably came down to the ADMs people were paying and the big (I guess) difference in MSRP. The difference between a SN95/New Edge GT and Terminator was about 8-10k the difference between an S-197 GT and a GT500 was around 12-14k and the lack of a crappy IRS shoehorned into a solid axle chassis (not saying an IRS couldn't have been well engineered for the GT500 but that would have been prohibitively expensive to have different rear sheet metal compared to the live axle car just to get a really good IRS in there) along with rods that werent as good as the terminators so you ended up with people who couldn't afford to upgrade and didn't see any value in the car and they needed a scapegoat.

So no IRS and no Manley (are they Manley rods??? I dont think they got the Carillos that went into the Cobra R) rods must be the fault of slapping the Shelby name on there.

rhumb

Agreed. The SN95 was a better value relative to its GT contemporary than the S197 GT500 is over the standard GT Stang. Yes, the GT500 is a much better car overall than the SN95 Cobra, as is the S197 GT is over its SN95 predecessor. But did/does the GT500 represent as much of a per dollar (%) improvement beyond the GT as did the Cobra in its time, in, of course, relative terms?

Some have argued, including me, that no, the Cobra in its day actually represented a bigger bang-for-the-buck upgrade over the GT than did/does the S197 GT500. The former simply offered more for less of a percentage price upgrade and that is at the root of a lot, though not all, of some of the negative vibe associated with the GT500. It came to embody the slightly cynical "good enough" ethos that seemed to mark the S197 early on. Yes, the GT500 was always a very good car, certainly "good enough," but fell somewhat short of its potential of being a truly great car.

ADMs did nothing to assuage those misgivings and this doesn't touch on some other aspects of at least the initial GT500s -- (nose) heavy, somewhat soft suspension for its power -- that people were concerned about.

The later GT500s have addressed most of these issues though -- lightened weight, significantly improved suspension tuning, moderated price increases -- and as a result, has recaptured much of the respect that was squandered away initially. Of course, the GT500s have always offered BIG power, bordering on being overpowered, and have only heaped on ever more of that icing on the cake over the years.

Hopefully Ford will have learned its lessons and will, for the next UberStang model (whatever they call it), focus more on initial and long term value and brand integrity than grubbing for every last quick-term penny. Given Ford's recent hugely-impressive efforts with the Mustang, I have every confidence that the effort will be pretty mind-boggling.

jsaylor

I think a lot of the GT500 'hate' is based on assumptions that don't really hold water upon review. For example, as Rhumb mentioned above the price difference between a SN95 GT and a Cobra was smaller than what we have seen with the S197 GT and the GT500. The problem with that assumption is that SN95 GT's were being produced and sold while Ford was still working their way out of the old 'price 'em high and rebate 'em back down to reality' strategy of marketing. Rebates on SN95 cars in general could get pretty generous, but on V6 and GT models they bordered on the ridiculous at times.

Given that we don't know how the pricing relationship would really compare to what we have now if these cars had been priced in the same manner that Ford, and the industry in general, is using now. We do know that, even with more attractive pricing and in a better market, Ford had to heavily rebate 2004 Terminator models to move them off lots. And we likewise know that SVT in it's original incarnation, which covers the Terminator era, was never a money making enterprise. The point here being that, if you want to make assumptions, you can take some pretty unfavorable jabs at the SVT Cobra models based on things we know, and just as easily if not easier than we can cast stones at the GT500.

I think you just tend to see the venom coming from the 'give me back my SVT Cobra' crowd because they are the ones who have an axe to grind at the moment. Unless Shelby himself wants out of the arrangement I wouldn't look for the SVT Cobra moniker to supplant the Shelby GT500 nomenclature anytime soon.

I suppose, in the end, I'm just consistently amazed that people have such a disdain for Shelby...frankly its a bit weird. I'm not a fan of the now defunct SVT marketing concept and am by no means a fan of Coletti or his long rumored inner-corporate shenanigans. That said I certainly don't hate John Coletti and I don't go out of my way to sell short the cars he produced, or shun them altogether, because he built them or because his name is on them. (if it were)

RandyW

I suppose at this point the SVT Cobra name is more "exotic" because it's been out of production for several years. There have been enough years now of the GT500 that it's no longer thought of as rare. If 2015 sees Ford labeling the top Mustang the SVT Cobra and the Shelby GT500 name is dropped, after a few years people will be asking for the Shelby name to be brought back. It's a probably good that Ford has so many special edition names from the past so that they can rotate them in and out of production to always have something that's historic, yet fresh.

Fords4Ever

I will say this, in '96/'97 I worked at an SVT Ford Dealer and while they certainly were not as egregious as the GT500 ADMs, there were ADMs on Cobra's. And I can tell you that even if the ADM didn't fly, a Cobra never left the lot for less than MSRP at that time (in that dealer anyway). In fact at that time it was dificult to get a regular GT in that dealer because they were pushing Cobras at MSRP or better.