2012 5.0,lots of smoke cylinder 8 misfire.
8/1/11 | 07:24 AM
#61
GT Member
Joined: July 6, 2010
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Downpayment on an '08 plus LS3 Vette....Ford KNOWS that 95% of folks buy Mustangs
To Mod them, they should Not have made a BS Glass Motor....
8/1/11 | 08:04 AM
#62
Cobra Member
Joined: August 27, 2007
Posts: 1,496
Likes: 26
From: Southern Al
The 5.0 can take supercharging all day long with no problems. It's not a Glass motor.
8/1/11 | 09:24 AM
#64
Cobra R Member
Joined: June 6, 2008
Posts: 1,666
Likes: 2
the motor is not glass by any means.
8/1/11 | 10:35 AM
#66
Shelby GT350 Member
Joined: June 9, 2008
Posts: 2,061
Likes: 1
From: Rochester NY
8/1/11 | 10:51 AM
#68
MOTM Committee Member
Joined: April 17, 2006
Posts: 9,181
Likes: 2
From: SoCal
I don't have a membership there
8/1/11 | 10:52 AM
#69
Shelby GT350 Member
Joined: June 9, 2008
Posts: 2,061
Likes: 1
From: Rochester NY
This is actually the 3rd customer who has contacted us about this issue. 3rd customer in the last year and of those 3 we have probably sent out atleast 500-600 2011 5.0 tunes. The first customer of ours who blew a number 8 the Ford engineer covered it under warranty due to an oil squirter failing, the second (who i believe is a member on here) broke a rod bearing (split in half) and the third customer is this customer who you are reading about and the car hasnt been to the dealer to diagnose the issue. We have also heard of long tube headers causing this issue as well, which i find it very hard to believe, but again there are no facts, just speculation. The funny thing is that everyone is blaming the tune, but this is an ongoing issue (according to our local ford dealer) on the FORD tech forums and there is a lot of finger pointing going on. You all are just hearing about cars with tunes having these #8 issues on forums, but if you look at the facts 90% of the 5.0 customers on forums have their cars modified and are running tunes. These issues are happening on FRPP tunes as well as 100% stock cars, so its very hard to place the blame on the tune. All of the cars that we have heard about having this issue have been EARLY production cars, but who's to say that has anything to do with it, because we dont know the facts and probably never will. We have been running our most aggressive Race tune (more aggressive than we send out to customers) on our 2011 test car for the last 16k miles (on 93 pump gas) and have raced it at nearly all NMRA events and definitely a LOT of spirited driving and abuse (naturally aspirated and with over 600rwhp to the wheels with a Vortech). We also have 2 other 2011-2012 in house test cars with ZERO issues as well. Ford's OEM calibration has parameters in place to protect the engine and we DO NOT remove these calibrations or alter the parameters. If anyone has any concerns or questions feel free to call me anytime. I can be reached directly at 574.594.9559 ext 3.
Thanks,
Chandler
Thanks,
Chandler
8/1/11 | 11:03 AM
#70
MOTM Committee Member
Joined: April 17, 2006
Posts: 9,181
Likes: 2
From: SoCal
This is actually the 3rd customer who has contacted us about this issue. 3rd customer in the last year and of those 3 we have probably sent out atleast 500-600 2011 5.0 tunes. The first customer of ours who blew a number 8 the Ford engineer covered it under warranty due to an oil squirter failing, the second (who i believe is a member on here) broke a rod bearing (split in half) and the third customer is this customer who you are reading about and the car hasnt been to the dealer to diagnose the issue. We have also heard of long tube headers causing this issue as well, which i find it very hard to believe, but again there are no facts, just speculation. The funny thing is that everyone is blaming the tune, but this is an ongoing issue (according to our local ford dealer) on the FORD tech forums and there is a lot of finger pointing going on. You all are just hearing about cars with tunes having these #8 issues on forums, but if you look at the facts 90% of the 5.0 customers on forums have their cars modified and are running tunes. These issues are happening on FRPP tunes as well as 100% stock cars, so its very hard to place the blame on the tune. All of the cars that we have heard about having this issue have been EARLY production cars, but who's to say that has anything to do with it, because we dont know the facts and probably never will. We have been running our most aggressive Race tune (more aggressive than we send out to customers) on our 2011 test car for the last 16k miles (on 93 pump gas) and have raced it at nearly all NMRA events and definitely a LOT of spirited driving and abuse (naturally aspirated and with over 600rwhp to the wheels with a Vortech). We also have 2 other 2011-2012 in house test cars with ZERO issues as well. Ford's OEM calibration has parameters in place to protect the engine and we DO NOT remove these calibrations or alter the parameters. If anyone has any concerns or questions feel free to call me anytime. I can be reached directly at 574.594.9559 ext 3.
Thanks,
Chandler
Thanks,
Chandler
It's hard to know who to believe.
8/1/11 | 11:07 AM
#71
Bullitt Member
Joined: July 23, 2010
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
From: New York
A lot of those guys over there are very quick to blame the tune but there could be a design flaw here. I mean seriously who in their right mind makes the ring spacing .006" - .010"? That's frighteningly close and one bit of extra heat will cause the land to break and voila, bye bye cylinder. And since #8 gets the hottest since FORD never fixed the age old issue of heat on the back of the drivers side head that dates back to the 4.6 DOHC motors, there we have the root of our issue.
8/1/11 | 11:15 AM
#72
Cobra Member
Joined: January 13, 2005
Posts: 1,339
Likes: 1
This is what happens sometimes when you mod cars.
Was it the tune? Possibly, but if the car was stock you would have no worries and Ford would repair it under warranty.
The simple fact is when you modify ANY car you are taking a chance the that modification will break something.
I don't care if it's a supercharger, cold air intake, tune, or even springs and shocks.
Once you remove that stock part and put on that aftermarket part then you take a chance that something will go wrong.
Vendors will never tell you this because that's their business and it would hurt business... understandable.
But just because A-Car could withstand x,y, and z doesn't me B-Car will be able to withstand the same conditions.
You can make an educated guess, but you never know.
The same holds for unmodified cars. Some break... some don't... it's all matters of circumstance... how the car was driven, how the maintenance was kept up, how the car was built at the factory.
The only difference is... when it's unmodified it's on Ford's dime (or whoever Chevy, Toyota, etc.) but when you mod it... it's on YOUR dime.
It would be great if vendors would offer warranties but sadly most don't... because they know, even though they won't tell you, that you are taking a chance.
I always read people ask what is "safe" for my car and a vendor will tell you, "Well (insert part, tune, etc) is TOTALLY safe because we've used it on 100 cars (or 200 or 400 or whatever) so you don't have a THING to worry about!"
Put simply... you want to be "safe" ? Don't mod your car... and when you do and something breaks don't expect the vendor to take the blame because even if they do (and I don't recall one time where one has) they probably aren't going to pay your bills unless you get an attorney involved.
Was it the tune? Possibly, but if the car was stock you would have no worries and Ford would repair it under warranty.
The simple fact is when you modify ANY car you are taking a chance the that modification will break something.
I don't care if it's a supercharger, cold air intake, tune, or even springs and shocks.
Once you remove that stock part and put on that aftermarket part then you take a chance that something will go wrong.
Vendors will never tell you this because that's their business and it would hurt business... understandable.
But just because A-Car could withstand x,y, and z doesn't me B-Car will be able to withstand the same conditions.
You can make an educated guess, but you never know.
The same holds for unmodified cars. Some break... some don't... it's all matters of circumstance... how the car was driven, how the maintenance was kept up, how the car was built at the factory.
The only difference is... when it's unmodified it's on Ford's dime (or whoever Chevy, Toyota, etc.) but when you mod it... it's on YOUR dime.
It would be great if vendors would offer warranties but sadly most don't... because they know, even though they won't tell you, that you are taking a chance.
I always read people ask what is "safe" for my car and a vendor will tell you, "Well (insert part, tune, etc) is TOTALLY safe because we've used it on 100 cars (or 200 or 400 or whatever) so you don't have a THING to worry about!"
Put simply... you want to be "safe" ? Don't mod your car... and when you do and something breaks don't expect the vendor to take the blame because even if they do (and I don't recall one time where one has) they probably aren't going to pay your bills unless you get an attorney involved.
8/1/11 | 11:19 AM
#73
MOTM Committee Member
Joined: April 17, 2006
Posts: 9,181
Likes: 2
From: SoCal
This is what happens sometimes when you mod cars.
Was it the tune? Possibly, but if the car was stock you would have no worries and Ford would repair it under warranty.
The simple fact is when you modify ANY car you are taking a chance the that modification will break something.
I don't care if it's a supercharger, cold air intake, tune, or even springs and shocks.
Once you remove that stock part and put on that aftermarket part then you take a chance that something will go wrong.
Vendors will never tell you this because that's their business and it would hurt business... understandable.
But just because A-Car could withstand x,y, and z doesn't me B-Car will be able to withstand the same conditions.
You can make an educated guess, but you never know.
The same holds for unmodified cars. Some break... some don't... it's all matters of circumstance... how the car was driven, how the maintenance was kept up, how the car was built at the factory.
The only difference is... when it's unmodified it's on Ford's dime (or whoever Chevy, Toyota, etc.) but when you mod it... it's on YOUR dime.
It would be great if vendors would offer warranties but sadly most don't... because they know, even though they won't tell you, that you are taking a chance.
I always read people ask what is "safe" for my car and a vendor will tell you, "Well (insert part, tune, etc) is TOTALLY safe because we've used it on 100 cars (or 200 or 400 or whatever) so you don't have a THING to worry about!"
Put simply... you want to be "safe" ? Don't mod your car... and when you do and something breaks don't expect the vendor to take the blame because even if they do (and I don't recall one time where one has) they probably aren't going to pay your bills unless you get an attorney involved.
Was it the tune? Possibly, but if the car was stock you would have no worries and Ford would repair it under warranty.
The simple fact is when you modify ANY car you are taking a chance the that modification will break something.
I don't care if it's a supercharger, cold air intake, tune, or even springs and shocks.
Once you remove that stock part and put on that aftermarket part then you take a chance that something will go wrong.
Vendors will never tell you this because that's their business and it would hurt business... understandable.
But just because A-Car could withstand x,y, and z doesn't me B-Car will be able to withstand the same conditions.
You can make an educated guess, but you never know.
The same holds for unmodified cars. Some break... some don't... it's all matters of circumstance... how the car was driven, how the maintenance was kept up, how the car was built at the factory.
The only difference is... when it's unmodified it's on Ford's dime (or whoever Chevy, Toyota, etc.) but when you mod it... it's on YOUR dime.
It would be great if vendors would offer warranties but sadly most don't... because they know, even though they won't tell you, that you are taking a chance.
I always read people ask what is "safe" for my car and a vendor will tell you, "Well (insert part, tune, etc) is TOTALLY safe because we've used it on 100 cars (or 200 or 400 or whatever) so you don't have a THING to worry about!"
Put simply... you want to be "safe" ? Don't mod your car... and when you do and something breaks don't expect the vendor to take the blame because even if they do (and I don't recall one time where one has) they probably aren't going to pay your bills unless you get an attorney involved.
Excellent post!
8/1/11 | 11:48 AM
#74
Bullitt Member
Joined: July 23, 2010
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
From: New York
This is what happens sometimes when you mod cars.
Was it the tune? Possibly, but if the car was stock you would have no worries and Ford would repair it under warranty.
The simple fact is when you modify ANY car you are taking a chance the that modification will break something.
I don't care if it's a supercharger, cold air intake, tune, or even springs and shocks.
Once you remove that stock part and put on that aftermarket part then you take a chance that something will go wrong.
Vendors will never tell you this because that's their business and it would hurt business... understandable.
But just because A-Car could withstand x,y, and z doesn't me B-Car will be able to withstand the same conditions.
You can make an educated guess, but you never know.
The same holds for unmodified cars. Some break... some don't... it's all matters of circumstance... how the car was driven, how the maintenance was kept up, how the car was built at the factory.
The only difference is... when it's unmodified it's on Ford's dime (or whoever Chevy, Toyota, etc.) but when you mod it... it's on YOUR dime.
It would be great if vendors would offer warranties but sadly most don't... because they know, even though they won't tell you, that you are taking a chance.
I always read people ask what is "safe" for my car and a vendor will tell you, "Well (insert part, tune, etc) is TOTALLY safe because we've used it on 100 cars (or 200 or 400 or whatever) so you don't have a THING to worry about!"
Put simply... you want to be "safe" ? Don't mod your car... and when you do and something breaks don't expect the vendor to take the blame because even if they do (and I don't recall one time where one has) they probably aren't going to pay your bills unless you get an attorney involved.
Was it the tune? Possibly, but if the car was stock you would have no worries and Ford would repair it under warranty.
The simple fact is when you modify ANY car you are taking a chance the that modification will break something.
I don't care if it's a supercharger, cold air intake, tune, or even springs and shocks.
Once you remove that stock part and put on that aftermarket part then you take a chance that something will go wrong.
Vendors will never tell you this because that's their business and it would hurt business... understandable.
But just because A-Car could withstand x,y, and z doesn't me B-Car will be able to withstand the same conditions.
You can make an educated guess, but you never know.
The same holds for unmodified cars. Some break... some don't... it's all matters of circumstance... how the car was driven, how the maintenance was kept up, how the car was built at the factory.
The only difference is... when it's unmodified it's on Ford's dime (or whoever Chevy, Toyota, etc.) but when you mod it... it's on YOUR dime.
It would be great if vendors would offer warranties but sadly most don't... because they know, even though they won't tell you, that you are taking a chance.
I always read people ask what is "safe" for my car and a vendor will tell you, "Well (insert part, tune, etc) is TOTALLY safe because we've used it on 100 cars (or 200 or 400 or whatever) so you don't have a THING to worry about!"
Put simply... you want to be "safe" ? Don't mod your car... and when you do and something breaks don't expect the vendor to take the blame because even if they do (and I don't recall one time where one has) they probably aren't going to pay your bills unless you get an attorney involved.
I understand the whole "pay to play" concept, but let me play devil's advocate here for a second. Ovbiously ford is placing the sole blame on the tunes, but since it is the SAME cylinder on EVERY car that has failed, raises the question of a design issue, that they definitely know about. What I want to see is if they will begin to stand behind the issue in the future when they discover that it is a flaw with the design. For all we know the tunes and other mods are merely accelerating something that will eventually happen on the bone stock card regardless. Either way if there's enough failures it's going to start opening eyes and it could eventually open ford up to some legal issues IF (and only IF) it can be proven that there is a design flaw playing a part here.
I wonder if we should have everyone with a tune on their 5.0 pull the #8 plug and see if that cylinder is running lean in comparison to other cyliners.
8/1/11 | 12:11 PM
#75
MOTM Committee Member
Joined: April 17, 2006
Posts: 9,181
Likes: 2
From: SoCal
This is a good point and it raises a lot of valid claims.
I understand the whole "pay to play" concept, but let me play devil's advocate here for a second. Ovbiously ford is placing the sole blame on the tunes, but since it is the SAME cylinder on EVERY car that has failed, raises the question of a design issue, that they definitely know about. What I want to see is if they will begin to stand behind the issue in the future when they discover that it is a flaw with the design. For all we know the tunes and other mods are merely accelerating something that will eventually happen on the bone stock card regardless. Either way if there's enough failures it's going to start opening eyes and it could eventually open ford up to some legal issues IF (and only IF) it can be proven that there is a design flaw playing a part here.
I wonder if we should have everyone with a tune on their 5.0 pull the #8 plug and see if that cylinder is running lean in comparison to other cyliners.
I understand the whole "pay to play" concept, but let me play devil's advocate here for a second. Ovbiously ford is placing the sole blame on the tunes, but since it is the SAME cylinder on EVERY car that has failed, raises the question of a design issue, that they definitely know about. What I want to see is if they will begin to stand behind the issue in the future when they discover that it is a flaw with the design. For all we know the tunes and other mods are merely accelerating something that will eventually happen on the bone stock card regardless. Either way if there's enough failures it's going to start opening eyes and it could eventually open ford up to some legal issues IF (and only IF) it can be proven that there is a design flaw playing a part here.
I wonder if we should have everyone with a tune on their 5.0 pull the #8 plug and see if that cylinder is running lean in comparison to other cyliners.
8/1/11 | 12:32 PM
#77
Bullitt Member
Joined: July 23, 2010
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
From: New York
I personally baby my car in hot weather, maybe thats why I don't have any issues. But then again I've also personally datalogged my car with the Steeda tune and never recorded any knock events etc... so I'm fairly confident that I'm safe.
8/1/11 | 12:50 PM
#78
Team Mustang Source
Joined: August 12, 2005
Posts: 2,121
Likes: 1
From: CT
This is a good point and it raises a lot of valid claims.
I understand the whole "pay to play" concept, but let me play devil's advocate here for a second. Ovbiously ford is placing the sole blame on the tunes, but since it is the SAME cylinder on EVERY car that has failed, raises the question of a design issue, that they definitely know about. What I want to see is if they will begin to stand behind the issue in the future when they discover that it is a flaw with the design. For all we know the tunes and other mods are merely accelerating something that will eventually happen on the bone stock card regardless. Either way if there's enough failures it's going to start opening eyes and it could eventually open ford up to some legal issues IF (and only IF) it can be proven that there is a design flaw playing a part here.
I wonder if we should have everyone with a tune on their 5.0 pull the #8 plug and see if that cylinder is running lean in comparison to other cyliners.
I understand the whole "pay to play" concept, but let me play devil's advocate here for a second. Ovbiously ford is placing the sole blame on the tunes, but since it is the SAME cylinder on EVERY car that has failed, raises the question of a design issue, that they definitely know about. What I want to see is if they will begin to stand behind the issue in the future when they discover that it is a flaw with the design. For all we know the tunes and other mods are merely accelerating something that will eventually happen on the bone stock card regardless. Either way if there's enough failures it's going to start opening eyes and it could eventually open ford up to some legal issues IF (and only IF) it can be proven that there is a design flaw playing a part here.
I wonder if we should have everyone with a tune on their 5.0 pull the #8 plug and see if that cylinder is running lean in comparison to other cyliners.
8/1/11 | 12:59 PM
#79
Post *****
Joined: December 14, 2007
Posts: 20,005
Likes: 4
From: State of Jefferson Mountains USA
8/1/11 | 01:16 PM
#80
Bullitt Member
Joined: July 23, 2010
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
From: New York
It has something to do with the way the coolant flows. The 4.6 DOHC had the same issue with the #8 hole getting hot. It never resulted in this failure however because the 4.6 is much lower compression and the ring spacing is larger, so the lands are less likely to break.