Mustang 3.5L Ecoboost engine swap
2/18/16, 01:33 AM
#982
V6 Member
Awesome build here!
You have me strongly considering doing this swap on my '12 V6. I saw this thread a few months ago but I just now read the whole thing. I knew this was possible and relatively "easy" (as far as late model engine swaps go lol) but I went with a bolt on turbo kit for the sake of simplicity. But the bolt on turbo kit is not necessarily the most reliable option and my Mustang will be my daily eventually. I'm thinking it may not be a bad idea to sell my turbo kit (not fully installed) and give this swap a shot instead.
I have a single 67mm turbo right now so this swap would probably be less power short term but I'm ok with that. The financial side of things doesn't look too bad either. It seems like this could be relatively straight forward with a '11+ that already has supporting mods on a roughly 6-7k budget? 3k for engine, 2k for control pack, and 1-2k for the various bits and pieces (FMIC, piping, etc.)? I'll consult with some local fabricators and see if they can talk me out of it lol. The logical thing to do from a reliability standpoint would be to just buy a procharger but where's the fun in that lol. The thing that really draws me to this is the fact that it really could have been a factory option in a parallel universe. And from a daily driver standpoint, 30+ mpg and 400+ whp seems achievable and insane all at the same time.
But anyway, if you plan on racing it a lot (especially with a good tire) I would definitely suggest changing out that UCA bracket. BMR makes one you can buy separately as does Steeda. We have a guy on the Cyclone Mustangs Facebook page that bent the crap out of his stock upper bracket on his 11 second N2O V6.
You have me strongly considering doing this swap on my '12 V6. I saw this thread a few months ago but I just now read the whole thing. I knew this was possible and relatively "easy" (as far as late model engine swaps go lol) but I went with a bolt on turbo kit for the sake of simplicity. But the bolt on turbo kit is not necessarily the most reliable option and my Mustang will be my daily eventually. I'm thinking it may not be a bad idea to sell my turbo kit (not fully installed) and give this swap a shot instead.
I have a single 67mm turbo right now so this swap would probably be less power short term but I'm ok with that. The financial side of things doesn't look too bad either. It seems like this could be relatively straight forward with a '11+ that already has supporting mods on a roughly 6-7k budget? 3k for engine, 2k for control pack, and 1-2k for the various bits and pieces (FMIC, piping, etc.)? I'll consult with some local fabricators and see if they can talk me out of it lol. The logical thing to do from a reliability standpoint would be to just buy a procharger but where's the fun in that lol. The thing that really draws me to this is the fact that it really could have been a factory option in a parallel universe. And from a daily driver standpoint, 30+ mpg and 400+ whp seems achievable and insane all at the same time.
But anyway, if you plan on racing it a lot (especially with a good tire) I would definitely suggest changing out that UCA bracket. BMR makes one you can buy separately as does Steeda. We have a guy on the Cyclone Mustangs Facebook page that bent the crap out of his stock upper bracket on his 11 second N2O V6.
2/18/16, 07:56 AM
#983
Cobra Member
Thread Starter
Hi GatorV6
With a 2012 mustang, 2013+ ecoboost motor and a control pack your swap is pretty straight forward. You can even use your existing motor mounts and bolt it right in. You can sell your 3.7 engine making the ecoboost $2k less but you will spend that on fabrication of the turbo and exhaust pipes. A 2013+ ecoboost motor will cost you closer to $3,500 with all the accessories.
The ecoboost has forged internals, better pistons, and direct injection. I think that's important to point out on the reliability. You will make close to 500 whp in a mustang without much modification, your already installing custom turbo piping and a free flowing exhaust. To make that power you would need to swap to a larger in tank fuel pump or dual pumps and get a custom tune. The trucks make 475 whp modified with lots of rotational weight and an auto transmission. It's been said you loose 35 whp with the automatic too.
For the electrical I'm not sure what you are up against. The control pack does have a canbus connection but I'm sure some custom wiring will be involved too. You would probably need to leave in your factory PCM to control ABS and a few other things.
Turbo lag in an ecoboost is minimal compared to the turbo you are installing now. Because of that the torque curve will look much better with the ecoboost and frankly will be more fun to drive. Also the ecoboost turbos are water-cooled eliminating the need to cool down the turbo before turning off the car, greatly extending their life.
Thanks for the warning about the bracket! I'm probably just going to weld some bracing on mine, I'll try to do it while it's installed in the car. If I weld a piece across the top attaching both sides together that should make a huge difference. If you have a pic of the twisted bracket you can post here that would be helpful, then I can see how it failed. Thanks!
With a 2012 mustang, 2013+ ecoboost motor and a control pack your swap is pretty straight forward. You can even use your existing motor mounts and bolt it right in. You can sell your 3.7 engine making the ecoboost $2k less but you will spend that on fabrication of the turbo and exhaust pipes. A 2013+ ecoboost motor will cost you closer to $3,500 with all the accessories.
The ecoboost has forged internals, better pistons, and direct injection. I think that's important to point out on the reliability. You will make close to 500 whp in a mustang without much modification, your already installing custom turbo piping and a free flowing exhaust. To make that power you would need to swap to a larger in tank fuel pump or dual pumps and get a custom tune. The trucks make 475 whp modified with lots of rotational weight and an auto transmission. It's been said you loose 35 whp with the automatic too.
For the electrical I'm not sure what you are up against. The control pack does have a canbus connection but I'm sure some custom wiring will be involved too. You would probably need to leave in your factory PCM to control ABS and a few other things.
Turbo lag in an ecoboost is minimal compared to the turbo you are installing now. Because of that the torque curve will look much better with the ecoboost and frankly will be more fun to drive. Also the ecoboost turbos are water-cooled eliminating the need to cool down the turbo before turning off the car, greatly extending their life.
Thanks for the warning about the bracket! I'm probably just going to weld some bracing on mine, I'll try to do it while it's installed in the car. If I weld a piece across the top attaching both sides together that should make a huge difference. If you have a pic of the twisted bracket you can post here that would be helpful, then I can see how it failed. Thanks!
Last edited by Ecostang; 2/18/16 at 08:08 AM.
2/18/16, 10:33 AM
#984
V6 Member
Why do you suggest the 2013+ motor as opposed to the 2010-12? I notice the control pack specifies 13+ but what are the differences?
Oh I'm definitely not worried about lag with the EB! 500+ lb ft at the wheels at ~300 rpm sounds pretty ridiculous haha. I'm more worried about blowing off the tires every time I touch the throttle lol, especially with the granny 1st gear on the V6 MT82.
Why do you suggest fuel pump upgrade? I'm assuming it's because of the return style fuel system? The 11+ V6 has the same fuel pump as the 5.0 so they don't usually suggest replacing it unless you're planning on well over 500whp but of course it's a returnless system. Did you have to change yours to a return style fuel system using the F150 PCM? This fuel system stuff is what's really hanging me up right now.
About the turbos though, I'm assuming they're oiled as well?
Oh I'm definitely not worried about lag with the EB! 500+ lb ft at the wheels at ~300 rpm sounds pretty ridiculous haha. I'm more worried about blowing off the tires every time I touch the throttle lol, especially with the granny 1st gear on the V6 MT82.
Why do you suggest fuel pump upgrade? I'm assuming it's because of the return style fuel system? The 11+ V6 has the same fuel pump as the 5.0 so they don't usually suggest replacing it unless you're planning on well over 500whp but of course it's a returnless system. Did you have to change yours to a return style fuel system using the F150 PCM? This fuel system stuff is what's really hanging me up right now.
About the turbos though, I'm assuming they're oiled as well?
2/18/16, 11:51 AM
#985
Cobra Member
Thread Starter
Yes I would only use the 2013+ for simplicity when using the control pack. 2013+ turbos are slightly larger and have a single electronic BOV, the 2011-12 have mechanical BOV on each turbo. The 2013+ has a cam driven vacuum pump and the 2011-12 has an external mounted vacuum pump that's not cheap to buy and it takes up a lot of room. There's some sensors that move and the pcv and vacuum vsystem is different. Nothing major, if you found a really low mile 2011-2012 it might be worth making it work.
I used a returnless system, same that came with the car because I used the f150 PCM. With the control pack you are supposed to use a return fuel system, the control pack doesn't have the ability to control the fuel pump speed. What you need is a tophat and I actually have one that I didn't end up needing that fits your car I could sell you. I bought it for $200 new, normally they cost $500. You can install 1-3 pumps in it and it has a fitting for the return fuel line. With a return system you don't want to run more pump than you need because the return fuel can warm up the tank if its circulating too much fuel.
I suggested replacing the pump because with the factory returnless system it needs to produce lots of fuel pressure on the low end of your rpm band. The motor makes lots of torque at low rpm and needs lots of fuel when modified. The high pressure fuel pump is rpm driven and has a hard time producing enough fuel in low rpm high torque conditions. Overwhelming the HPFP at all times with a powerful pump setup is the best chance to get the fuel you need. With a return system this is less of an issue since the PCM isn't regulating pump flow, it's at 100% all the time.
Yes they are oil cooled as well.
I used a returnless system, same that came with the car because I used the f150 PCM. With the control pack you are supposed to use a return fuel system, the control pack doesn't have the ability to control the fuel pump speed. What you need is a tophat and I actually have one that I didn't end up needing that fits your car I could sell you. I bought it for $200 new, normally they cost $500. You can install 1-3 pumps in it and it has a fitting for the return fuel line. With a return system you don't want to run more pump than you need because the return fuel can warm up the tank if its circulating too much fuel.
I suggested replacing the pump because with the factory returnless system it needs to produce lots of fuel pressure on the low end of your rpm band. The motor makes lots of torque at low rpm and needs lots of fuel when modified. The high pressure fuel pump is rpm driven and has a hard time producing enough fuel in low rpm high torque conditions. Overwhelming the HPFP at all times with a powerful pump setup is the best chance to get the fuel you need. With a return system this is less of an issue since the PCM isn't regulating pump flow, it's at 100% all the time.
Yes they are oil cooled as well.
Last edited by Ecostang; 2/18/16 at 11:55 AM.
2/18/16, 12:01 PM
#986
Cobra Member
Thread Starter
Modified ecoboost torque curve (www.full-race.com)
Last edited by Ecostang; 2/18/16 at 12:10 PM.
2/18/16, 01:57 PM
#988
V6 Member
I spoke with the guy who's UCA bracket failed and he said it twisted along with the UCA itself. He said he still has it so I might be able to get a picture for you at some point.
The low end torque capabilities of these engines is just amazing! They're just journal bearing K03s right? It's crazy how quickly they spool. Especially how the upgraded turbos can spool nearly as quickly without falling on their face up high! Is the 13+ a 51mm compressor wheel?
I'm definitely starting to come to grips with this idea haha. It looks like it might end up being a bit more pricey than I first thought but I think it will be worth it. I might have to sell one of my bikes but it will be a worthy sacrifice!
Any ideas on converting a junk yard motor to run with a return style fuel system? Presumably I just need a different fuel rail, but does something like this exist or will I have to add "custom fuel rail" to the list of unknowns? I might have to contact you soon about that tophat too! I just have to make up my mind first lol
Sorry for bombarding you with questions! There's just so much good info here and I'm really digging this idea. I just wish I read this thread before shelling out 5+ grand on a turbo kit...
The low end torque capabilities of these engines is just amazing! They're just journal bearing K03s right? It's crazy how quickly they spool. Especially how the upgraded turbos can spool nearly as quickly without falling on their face up high! Is the 13+ a 51mm compressor wheel?
I'm definitely starting to come to grips with this idea haha. It looks like it might end up being a bit more pricey than I first thought but I think it will be worth it. I might have to sell one of my bikes but it will be a worthy sacrifice!
Any ideas on converting a junk yard motor to run with a return style fuel system? Presumably I just need a different fuel rail, but does something like this exist or will I have to add "custom fuel rail" to the list of unknowns? I might have to contact you soon about that tophat too! I just have to make up my mind first lol
Sorry for bombarding you with questions! There's just so much good info here and I'm really digging this idea. I just wish I read this thread before shelling out 5+ grand on a turbo kit...
2/18/16, 02:03 PM
#989
Cobra Member
Thread Starter
Don't worry about the pic if it's not easy, no big deal.
Yes I believe they are 51mm
Sure you can do a return system without a custom fuel rail. I believe you can buy a "y" fitting for the fuel line under the hood that has the built in regulator. There's been many people do this already, I think you can just google "return fuel system s197" and you will find some info.
Yes I believe they are 51mm
Sure you can do a return system without a custom fuel rail. I believe you can buy a "y" fitting for the fuel line under the hood that has the built in regulator. There's been many people do this already, I think you can just google "return fuel system s197" and you will find some info.
Last edited by Ecostang; 2/18/16 at 03:19 PM.
2/18/16, 03:32 PM
#990
Cobra Member
Thread Starter
Taking a 90 degree corner in the Shelby at.....the speed limit of course 
. This is the view on my 30 min drive to work, there's actually 4 of these 90 degree corners on Valmont coming in to Boulder, this is really close to Lexiions house.
This is one of my favorite roads I've ever driven on, views amazing, corners are extreme, and the road is in excellent condition. I have a suction cup GoPro and I've been meaning to film the entire drive, probably on a Saturday or Sunday when there's not any traffic. The fun part could be driven in 5 min or so if really pushing it.
. This is the view on my 30 min drive to work, there's actually 4 of these 90 degree corners on Valmont coming in to Boulder, this is really close to Lexiions house. This is one of my favorite roads I've ever driven on, views amazing, corners are extreme, and the road is in excellent condition. I have a suction cup GoPro and I've been meaning to film the entire drive, probably on a Saturday or Sunday when there's not any traffic. The fun part could be driven in 5 min or so if really pushing it.
Last edited by Ecostang; 2/18/16 at 07:57 PM.
2/18/16, 03:55 PM
#991
Mach 1 Member
Taking a 90 degree corner at.....the speed limit of course . This is the view coming in to work on my 30 min drive to work, there's actually 4 of these 90 degree corners on Valmont coming in to Boulder, this is really close to Lexiions house.
This is one of my favorite roads I've ever driven on, views amazing, corners are extreme, and the road is in excellent condition. I have a suction cup GoPro and I've been meaning to film the entire drive, probably on a Saturday or Sunday when there's not any traffic. The fun part could be driven in 5 min or so if really pushing it.
On the drive in to work - YouTube
. This is the view coming in to work on my 30 min drive to work, there's actually 4 of these 90 degree corners on Valmont coming in to Boulder, this is really close to Lexiions house. This is one of my favorite roads I've ever driven on, views amazing, corners are extreme, and the road is in excellent condition. I have a suction cup GoPro and I've been meaning to film the entire drive, probably on a Saturday or Sunday when there's not any traffic. The fun part could be driven in 5 min or so if really pushing it.
On the drive in to work - YouTube
awesome to go with the Shelby..,LEXiiON
2/18/16, 07:14 PM
#992
2013 RR Boss 302 #2342
Join Date: March 6, 2012
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Originally Posted by LEXiiON
I drive that road every morning and evening awesome to go with the Shelby..,
LEXiiON
awesome to go with the Shelby..,LEXiiON
2/19/16, 05:43 AM
#995
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Join Date: February 19, 2016
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Excellent car! Excellent build! I just finished reading through the whole thread in a day. I couldn't stop reading, had me intrigued the whole time! I'm a long way from being able to start a project car but I know it will be a Mustang. I had to create an account just to say how much I loved reading about your build. Keep up the great work! I look forward to reading and following this build!
2/19/16, 07:45 AM
#996
Cobra Member
Thread Starter
Excellent car! Excellent build! I just finished reading through the whole thread in a day. I couldn't stop reading, had me intrigued the whole time! I'm a long way from being able to start a project car but I know it will be a Mustang. I had to create an account just to say how much I loved reading about your build. Keep up the great work! I look forward to reading and following this build!
2/19/16, 11:41 AM
#997
Cobra Member
Thread Starter
Snake to horse gt500 grille emblem adapter. The 3D printer screwed it up the surface a little but not a big deal. I just sanded the rough finish flat so the emblem tape would stick well.
2/19/16, 12:31 PM
#999
Cobra Member
