metroplex

I found a spider egg sac in the fresh air intake for my evap solenoid. This caused a P1450 DTC, and a "whoosh" sound whenever I opened the gas cap... on a 03 E-250.

Someone else found that debris clogged into their S197s evap solenoid caused this slow to fill issue as well.

You can take apart the evap system and look for the air filter. The spider egg sac is usually found in the hose upstream of the filter.

Someone had a write up on how to clean their S197's hose. I have the link at home.

metroplex

As promised:

http://ratstangrestoration.com/05_mustang_tank.htm

Treadhead

Definitely a messed up situation. In 2 years I've had this problem only twice. I changed gas stations after the first time and no problems until late last year when the gas station installed new nozzles on the pumps. I now have to pump it upside down but, it works fine with no spillage. The gas is cheaper there is the only reason I still go there. So I think there might be more to the problem than the gas tank or filler neck. Maybe a combo of tank, neck and nozzle. It's even more wierd that some people have the problem while others don't.


Edit-- Almost forgot. One day when I was pumping gas upside down a guy with another make/model was having the same problem until he saw me and asked about it. He said he never would have thought to try it and thanked me so it's not just Ford or Mustangs.

metroplex

It's a problem with the S197 system, not Ford or the gas stations. I can fill my 00 Vic and 03 E-250 using the FASTEST pump setting without any problems.

The S197 uses a saddle bag gas tank with a tiny convoluted filler neck. It's easy for the filler neck to get congested causing the gun to click off (or not click off and spill fuel everywhere).

randy_tho

A friend has been having the same problem on an Infiniti G35x sedan.

2k5GTC

Not one of those "reliable" Japanese cars !!! Say it isn't so!!!

RobK

packhater, they were probably referring to a spider web in one of the vent lines. That would do it. If you actually have gas spewing out that's likely the cause, a clogged vent somewhere.

metroplex

The dreaded spider egg sac:

Treadhead

I guess they use the S197 system in other makes and models of cars then. I never once had a problem at this gas station even on the full blast setting until they changed nozzles.

metroplex

I've never had a problem with the Crown Vic or the E-250. I DID run into the quick click-off if I stuck the nozzle in too deep with the Crown Vic. They switched to the new nozzles at the local stations and I still don't have any problems.

The S197's filling system needs to bleed off the air as quickly as gasoline is filled in. The smaller convoluted filler neck doesn't help bleed out the air. On the Panther platform and E-series, the filler neck is basically a large diameter pipe that dumps into the gas tank in a straight angle. There are many bends in the S197 tube coupled with the saddle bag design (one side gets filled up first). Some people run into problems with the S197, others don't. Just because you haven't experienced it yourself doesn't mean it is a fable or myth.

mikes rx

Recently, I've been able to overcome the issue by slowly initiating the fill process (ie-taking about 5 seconds to go from nothing to full flow). Then, I just leave it at full flow, and it seems to work fine.

I've done this about 5 times now, at different gas stations (even ones that I've had problems at before), and at different tank levels (low to half full), and knock wood it's been good so far.

Previously, I would just hold the lever at about 1/4 flow. What I've noticed is that once it flows too quickly, it's all down hill until you can pump it slow enough again to keep it from shutting off...which usually takes at least 3-5 attempts.

But, I'm probably not going to have it fixed either. I honestly just don't want to deal with the hassle of having to drop off the car, have it "diagnosed", having them drop the tank, etc etc etc. To me, it hasn't been that great of a deal (yet). Although, I have gotten very frustrated a few times, especially before realizing how to "fix" it.

And, another comment: does New Jersey think that it's population doesn't know how to fill a gas tank

metroplex

It's against state law to fill your gas tank in NJ and OR.

mikes rx

Yeah, I knew that, but still can't quite understand why.

Treadhead

Believe it or not I know how it works. I've also been here long enough to know it doesn't happen to everyone as I stated that in my first post. I even said I've experienced the problem. What I'm pointing out is that it's not just a Ford Mustang problem as I stated in my first post.

I also happen to drive a Crown Vic everyday at work and have had it happen to it as well. Rarely but, it happens.

Not sure why you are trying so desperately to refute my posts. I'm just posting my experiences and observations like everyone else. You can change an opinion but, not an experience.

randy_tho

Come to think of it.. I've had it happen on my Stealth once before. And it's a reliab....... um Japanese car. A real one. Not one made in Mexico or Canada.

But it's a faint memory and happened long ago. I figured it was the pump.

mikes rx

Isn't that a DODGE stealth, therefore an American car.

Even if you had the Mitsubishi 3000GT, it wouldn't matter b/c it's a rebadged Dodge Stealth [the same way that Isuzu's are rebadged Chevrolet's]

metroplex

If it's happening on your Crown Vic, you are sticking the gas pump nozzle in too deep. When the spider egg sac COMPLETELY blocked off the evap system's fresh air intake, causing the a vacuum buildup in the tank, the gas pump nozzle never clicked off prematurely while filling the E-250.

I had to store my Mustang over the winter and I forgot to fill the tank before the first salt hit the road and just my luck, the tank was nearly empty. I went and filled up my 5 gallon gas jugs. While pouring it in the tank, there were several times when the gas was ready to squirt out. I had to wait for it to drain into the tank before continuing. Keep in mind this isn't a "high pressure gas pump nozzle" but rather a regular 5 gallon gas jug.

I've never had any problems with the 81 T-bird, 83 Escort, 89 E-150, 00 Vic (unless the nozzle was inserted too deep), or the 03 E-250.

The S197 is the only Ford vehicle that I know of where there are numerous people experiencing the same fill issue. That's more than a coincidence, especially when some people have found that filling the tank with the gas nozzle upside down is a semi-solution and recommend it to fellow S197 owners. It's the car, not the gas station. When Ford blames the gas stations instead of the car, you know it's the car.

randy_tho

You've got it exactly backwards. The Stealth was made by Mitsubishi motor company in Nagoya, Japan alongside the 3000GT. It's 99.8% Japanese.

The point is though, it happens because of congested overflow. The S197 apparently experiences this more often than others.

Does anyone have a diagram from the service manual of the piping to the tank?

mikes rx

...thanks for the clarification.

metroplex

Here are pics of the S197's filler tube and the Vic's filler tube.

With the Vic's filler tube, you're basically throwing a hotdog down a hallway. The large tube dumps into the tank directly. The only way I know of to make the gas filler click off prematurely with the Vic is to jam the nozzle deep into the filler neck. If you insert the nozzle just enough that it sits on the 45* angle on most nozzles, it won't click off prematurely (this is for the Vic).