m05fastbackGT

With the latest rumors floating around concerning the Interceptor and Lincoln MKR concepts ?? which claim their both built upon the Mustang's D2C platform..my question is this ? how can this be done if the D2C platform cannot be modified to accommodate a 4 door sedan..

JETSOLVER

Good question. And one being HOTLY debated on multiple forums as you type...lets just hope the debate IN the company is as heated as OUT of it.

m05fastbackGT

Now let's just hope someone out there can provide some real answers, because at this point ? I don't know what in the hell is fact and what is fiction

tech

I should have clarified that ~20,000 per month was Milan, MKZ and Fusion.

Your numbers aren't exactly iron clad. Do your research: http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/...701040351/1003

You originally said Camry sold ~500,000 units last year. 50,000 cars is a little off.

I'm picking up your sarcasm so I'll play. Care to tell us where you got your numbers? A link maybe?

It's obvious that the Camry sells more than the Fusion, etc. My attempt wasn't to spin the numbers, it was to cover all of the bases. But, Like I said, Fusion and variants are not Ford's flagship vehicles as the Camry is to Toyota.

05GT-O.C.D.

Wow, this is still going?

stangsimon

OK. I'll keep it going.

I think what everyone is saying here ( though disagreeing on how to say it ) is that the Mustang is the #1 Ford product right now. Regardless of the numbers, the Mustang is not only a high seller in its coupe market, but generates the most positive press for Ford. It is, in essence, Ford's flagship from a PR point of view- because its such a success in every respect- design, performance, value, etc. This is the kind of product execution we all want to see in all Ford products. IMHO, its coming.

As for the comparing Fusion sales to Mustang sales, its apples and oranges. The Mustangs' 170K units are exceptional for its market. The Fusion's 140K sales are OK for the hotly contested mid-size sedan market where Accord pushes 370K units and Camry 500K per year. Yes, I have said before, sales mean nothing, profits do, but I am willing to bet it costs Ford approximately the same amount ( likely more ) $ to develop the Fusion-Milan-MKZ as it did Honda to develop the Accord and Toyota to develop the Camry. I am curious to see if the Fusion sales hold up with the new Camry, Altima, and new for 08 Accord.

For some further perspective, Christmas took me on a trip through the Eastern US, through New Jersey and New York, where Honda/Toyota/Nissan multiply like very horny rabbits. I saw only one Fusion with Michigan plates. No Milans, no MKZs/Zephyrs. However, that's the way it used to be with Japanese Datsuns and Toyota Crowns. It will take some time to reverse the perspective of American cars and get the reputation of good product back.

That's why I think everyone is clamoring for breakthrough hits like the Mustang. "OK" cars won't change the perspective fast enough. But since this is a Mustang board, and a Mustang thread, let's just enjoy the product we happen to like and own is that breakthrough home run that everyone wants to emulate.

And this, IMHO, is the how this whole Mustang 4 dr/wagon thing got started- its the spirit of the Mustang that needs to go on other cars, not the horse badge.

So can we close out this topic?

m05fastbackGT

Sure ? we can close it, when everyones questions are fully answered..

TomServo92

Has anyone proven without a shadow of doubt that the D2C can't be modified for a 4 door sedan? There's been plenty of speculation in this thread but haven't seen a single shred of actual proof that it's impossible and given all the articles about the Interceptor/MKR that state they're built on D2C, I doubt we'll find any at all.

JETSOLVER

The single biggest thing I can recall as fact is that the Ford platform guidebook(Fords ten commandments thing, rules which are NOT EVER broken) had a problem with the DC2 and rear seat leg room. It was very late in the program that they decided to go upstairs for a ruling, to go outside that etched in stone rule. They got the exemption, but there was a lot of angst about that extra three inches of rear leg room. They tried special cut away lower seats, moving some significant hard points late in the program, etc. It was a MAJOR deal.

I often wondered how much $ was ****ed away because of the typical Ford management inflexability. Say IRS kind of money?

No wonder so many good guys quit that mess. The only way to do what was right for Ford was to break a cardinal rule and then either worry about your job, or just take one for the fans.

Coletti? Thanks John, we know.

TomServo92

Now, I'm not an automotive engineer but what we're hearing in regards to the Interceptor/MKR is that it rides on a D2C that has been stretched 6 inches. Would that not address the rear leg room concern or am I missing something?

JETSOLVER

In a very very simple and unrealistic way, yes.

If anyone wants the reality of doing a "simple stretch" let me know via PM.

In short, it is equivalant to almost a total re do. And not much cheaper.

TomServo92

I'm curious. PM me.

m05fastbackGT

and while you're at it ?? PM me as well, I'm also very interested..

JETSOLVER

Give me a day or so to make it readable, but surely you folks know that you don't just chop and cut like in the movies right?

Just consider the need to redo every single data point for chassis dynamics. Before production. And after prototyping. There is very little you can reuse in a new vehicle program beyond the analysis tools themselves. And even they are a lifed componant.

This ain't a boob job folks. It just isn't like that.

TomServo92

Well, Chrysler is doing it with the Challenger (shortened LX) and GM did with the DTS-L (lengthened DTS) and the Pontiac G6 (lengthened Epsilon) and Toyota with the Avalon (lengthened Camry) so I don't understand why this is such an impossibility for Ford (hell, the Tempo was a lengthened Escort platform). It seems to be pretty commonplace to shorten/lengthen existing platforms.

I look forward to your detailed explanation.

StangMahn

If Ford makes any sedan or wagon Mustang, I will personally walk into somebody's office down there at Ford, and give some idiot the chewing out they deserve.

05GT-O.C.D.

They're not going to. No need to get upset.

quikstang2

Just joined the forum and I don't feel like reading through 12 more pages to see if anyone else said this, but...

I'm in agreement with everyone who said Ford can do it but change the name. I know the fox Mustangs were built off the same chassis as the Fairmont, LTD, Zephyr, Marquis and whatever else they called it and those were all 2 door, 4 door and wagons.
Also, the Interceptor seems to be the new 4 door Mustang.

Boomer

Should read the other 12 pages

htwag

There was an interesting piece in the paper about the 'public perception' that American cars just will not hold up to Hondas and Toyotas....even Nissans. GM has done research that supports this viewpoint...regardless of what J D Powers might indicate. I can't see why folks run to Toyota dealers when American cars are getting better, offer the same goodies (actually better choices than the way Toyota does it), and can complete in style. I've seen jerk service advisors at both places (who hasn't) and various attempts to rip folks off; stupid salesmen, rude sales managers, etc everywhere. and I've seen **** good ones as well. I don't have a clue - but my wife wants a Lexus IS250 and I'm trying to point her toward an American car - Montego, MKZ, 500, CTS, etc. She still thinks American cars are not so good in the long haul. Beats me how I'm going to change her mind. Has anyone seen this in a Ford dealership -recently - a poster that says "The car you look at today and come back tomorrow to buy is the same car someone looked at yesterday." Geezzzz. I hate that type of sales.