Next recommended "cooling" mod?
A Man Just Needs Some....
Joined: April 9, 2011
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From: Louisiana
Sorry to derail the thread some Burton. Al I don’t think anybody is overanalyzing anything, rather simply having a discussion, or at least that’s all I’m doing. You however, seem to be getting quite defensive for whatever unknown reason. I’m not saying nor did I ever say the fan option should be passed up because it places additional load on the alternator. In fact I believe earlier in the thread I said it was the lesser of the evils and I never put a measure on the “Evil”. I like the ingenuity of the AC powered cooler but would not be willing to, or think it’s worth the added expense of opening up the AC refrigerant lines. Personal preference. BTW for what it’s worth you are close regarding the load an alternator places on the engine: 1 hp = 746 Watts. Alternators put out around 13.8 to 14.2 volts. Typical modern automotive alternators put out between 100 and 150 amps and I would guess with today’s load of electrical hardware in near constant operation in most modern cars the load would be about half of that, so around 50 to 75 amps continuous load. Alternators are at best about 60% efficient. 14V X 50a = 700 amp continuous load /.6 = 1167 Watts / 746 = 1.56hp continuous load at 50% duty cycle. I’ll leave you with this thought: If 1.56 hp -and the power consumption of all the other engine accessories- was inconsequential to “Detroit” up to about 1971, then why did they dyno all their engines with remotely powered accessories? The only reason they stopped was because Big Brother told them the power figures they were advertising was not what the consumer was actually getting. That’s one reason why hp figures dropped significantly from 1970-72. The gas crunch in 1973 killed it the rest of the way.
Sometimes it's just better to shake my head and move on.
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I Have No Life
Joined: September 24, 2011
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I have the VMP dual pass HE with 10" fans, they had not come out with the 3x pass w/11" fans at that time 
or I definitely would have gotten that one. On the 2011-12's I believe there is a little trimming to do on the install but I don't think it is anything extreme. I had no issues with my purchase from them and feel lucky. I've had my share of "bad orders" from vendors in the past but nothing as extreme as what you have gone through so I understand why you would be gun shy. The 170 degree thermostat starts opening earlier than the stock 190 degree stat. But like I said unless you have your tuner change the fans to come on earlier than stock it's not going to do much. On the 2011 and up VMP recommends the fans at 50% at 180F and 100% by 200F. I'm putting in a 170 stat in a a week or two when I do some updates and new dyno tune.
or I definitely would have gotten that one. On the 2011-12's I believe there is a little trimming to do on the install but I don't think it is anything extreme. I had no issues with my purchase from them and feel lucky. I've had my share of "bad orders" from vendors in the past but nothing as extreme as what you have gone through so I understand why you would be gun shy. The 170 degree thermostat starts opening earlier than the stock 190 degree stat. But like I said unless you have your tuner change the fans to come on earlier than stock it's not going to do much. On the 2011 and up VMP recommends the fans at 50% at 180F and 100% by 200F. I'm putting in a 170 stat in a a week or two when I do some updates and new dyno tune.As for trimming to fit, trim which piece? Metal framing? The HE itself? Or coolant hoses? The latter would be the easiest!
Please understand that I'm not directly singling you out. When Burton said he doesn't use his A/C, then that cancels out my recommendation. Then we turn to some of the reasoning why some of you don't use your A/C. I don't mind legitimate reasons not to do something. I do mind nonsense theories that spread like wildfire on these forums. If I don't call out nonsense theories, then half the people here will think their A/C is damaging their motors. Like I said about the A/C system, none of the reasons I've seen in this thread are legitimate. Not even gas mileage or parasitic strain. Burton has spent probably $8k and strapped on another 150hp. So no, gas doesn't cost $8k and the extra hp should be no problem spinning a compressor. Sometimes it's just better to shake my head and move on.
. That's a must for me. Those corsas have to sing to me. Mileage wise, not really a reason. I already get 16mpg in city with my new tune!
Bullitt Member
Joined: December 9, 2012
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The below is a direct quote from VMP
11-12 5.0L require trimming of the lower bumper valance to make room for this huge heat exchanger. Spacers are included to mount the HE farther back towards the AC condenser to reduce the amount of trimming required.
13-14 5.0L the VMP HE is a direct drop in due to this bumper being much like a GT500
A Man Just Needs Some....
Joined: April 9, 2011
Posts: 17,125
Likes: 34
From: Louisiana
Ah I see. Given my power levels (521whp) and state of boost (8.5lbs), no need for me to go 170 eh? Magnuson's kit itself doesn't have it nor do they call for it. Is there a need for me to put that on, esp if I don't track or race? Esp if I decide to do the vmp HE itself. As for trimming to fit, trim which piece? Metal framing? The HE itself? Or coolant hoses? The latter would be the easiest! Al, I understand. For me, I don't run AC because I must have my windows down for sound . That's a must for me. Those corsas have to sing to me. Mileage wise, not really a reason. I already get 16mpg in city with my new tune!
. That's a must for me. Those corsas have to sing to me. Mileage wise, not really a reason. I already get 16mpg in city with my new tune!A heat exchanger will not drop the temps as low as you are thinking. Ambient temperature once pressurized will heat up even more. Unless you're actually cooling the air, you are heating it.
Mach 1 Member
Joined: April 13, 2014
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From: Indiana
Anything that is 30-40 above ambient is good. I would bet you are running IAT2's in the 150's. I take it you don't have a gauge to measure inlet temps. If you was closer to me we could plug in my aeroforce and see what temps she is running.
A Man Just Needs Some....
Joined: April 9, 2011
Posts: 17,125
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From: Louisiana
Mach 1 Member
Joined: April 13, 2014
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From: Indiana
Bullitt Member
Joined: December 9, 2012
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The chiller is about the only method that would significantly decrease temps while in stop and go rush hour like traffic. I looked into the chiller when I was deciding on what to get and it sounds great. I just feared getting into the A/C so much. If I dragged / tracked the car I would definitely go this route.
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I Have No Life
Joined: September 24, 2011
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None of the above LOL, the lower bumper valance according to VMP The below is a direct quote from VMP 11-12 5.0L require trimming of the lower bumper valance to make room for this huge heat exchanger. Spacers are included to mount the HE farther back towards the AC condenser to reduce the amount of trimming required. 13-14 5.0L the VMP HE is a direct drop in due to this bumper being much like a GT500
I 100% agree. The HE fans help but temps still get "up there". The chiller is about the only method that would significantly decrease temps while in stop and go rush hour like traffic. I looked into the chiller when I was deciding on what to get and it sounds great. I just feared getting into the A/C so much. If I dragged / tracked the car I would definitely go this route.
Roller, what blower do you have? Please elaborate on why you recommend it and why it "works great". What IATs are you seeing? Any improvements in prolonged power via the blower once HE was installed?
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Thread Starter
I Have No Life
Joined: September 24, 2011
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I will call them. It sounds like I will "have" to go with the HE mod anyways. My front end looks like this now since I shipped my fogs to be retrofitted yesterday. (Details as to how/why in my other "My Latest etc." thread)
Last edited by FromZto5; Aug 22, 2014 at 06:00 AM.
Bullitt Member
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I'm sure it's nothing to extreme. Good luck with the fogs!
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I Have No Life
Joined: September 24, 2011
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Mach 1 Member
Joined: May 11, 2012
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From: Belle Plaine, MN
Please understand that I'm not directly singling you out. When Burton said he doesn't use his A/C, then that cancels out my recommendation. Then we turn to some of the reasoning why some of you don't use your A/C. I don't mind legitimate reasons not to do something. I do mind nonsense theories that spread like wildfire on these forums. If I don't call out nonsense theories, then half the people here will think their A/C is damaging their motors. Like I said about the A/C system, none of the reasons I've seen in this thread are legitimate. Not even gas mileage or parasitic strain. Burton has spent probably $8k and strapped on another 150hp. So no, gas doesn't cost $8k and the extra hp should be no problem spinning a compressor.
Sometimes it's just better to shake my head and move on.
Sometimes it's just better to shake my head and move on.
You have your beliefs and I have mine and I don’t think either of us are wrong. I understand perfectly what you’re saying and at the same time offer that I never once said using ones AC (Or any other accessory for that matter) would damage anybody’s car. I’m completely confident the auto manufacturers are engineering cars that can handle anything within the normal sphere of operation we can throw at them. If they aren’t, we’re all in a lot of trouble. My point was using these accessories does add to the heat load, that’s undeniable. That additional heat load comes from the cars only energy source, use of additional fuel. Supercharged engines like Burton’s are going to build even more under hood heat. In this case heat is the enemy. If nobody ever, searched for, studied and refined where parasitic energy loss is occurring, a lot of the power gains we make would go only towards fueling that beast which has a point of diminishing returns.
For what it’s worth if I lived in LA, I would use the AC also. It only gets miserable up here for a few weeks out of the year and for the most part I use my motorcycle as the primary mode of transportation during that time. I couldn’t handle “Liquid air” for months on end like you guys get.
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