The MT-82 in my brand new 2013
8/16/12, 07:13 AM
#41
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I took delivery of my '13 Boss on July 3rd. The MGW was already sitting on my shelf waiting for installation (along with a bunch of other mods). From all my forum research, internet browsing, and talking to other MGW owners I knew it was the right choice for me. I have the ability to directly compare the OEM & my MGW side by side as my wife owns an '11 GT.
The stock unit was 'designed for the masses' with smoothness, feel, isolation from noise and vibration, and COST, while delivering 'acceptable' performance.
There are 5 factors that in my mind are the major contributors to shifting smoothly or missing a 2-3 shift under hard acceleration.
1) The driver's technique. How fast and how much you depress the clutch in conjunction when you move the shifter varies greatly for each driver.
2) The MT-82. Did you get 'a good one' that performs as designed from the factory?
3) How high you rev the engine when you start shifting.
4) The driver's physique (size, shape, physiology -huge feet/hands/long arms/long torso/short legs/etc).
5) The position of the seat, bottom and seat back.
If you had unlimited funds and could apply the scientific method to every single problem MT-82, and could perform instrumented tests, gather data in real time and over time, measure and quantify each of the above 5 factors, and then analyze all the data, you would find there's no single answer to explain a missed shift under hard acceleration. It's likely a mix of one, and more than one of the above.
Before my shifter upgrade, I had 2 experienced drivers take my Boss out for a test drive with the expressed purpose of testing the transmission under hard acceleration. One is an SCCA instructor who races M3's and has had over 20 years of track experience on just about every well known track in the US. The other driver is a hardcore muscle car guy, who's worked as a professional mechanic for over 20 years, and is an excellent drag racer. On both test drives, all I said was "I want your opinion on the stock shifter when you 'get on it' and tell me what you think." I didn't say anything else, just sat in the passenger seat and watched.
Both drivers missed the 2-3 shift.
Both drivers had the engine revving at or over 7000 rpm, but was kind of hard to tell sitting in the passenger seat. Neither driver has had another turn behind the wheel since the MGW went in, but I suspect it will increase the odds of a successful 2-3 shift on another test drive.
Driver 1 cited his opinion that he felt that it was the high torque at WOT that caused deflection of the shifter causing him to miss the gate. I paid close attention to each driver's hand on the shift **** on the 2-3 shift and both used the 'open hand' technique to push the shifter forward and not grab the ****. Driver 1 had his hand more on top of the shift ball and let the bottom half of his hand push the shifter forward, while Driver 2 had bent his wrist more to push the shift ball more from behind than from the top half as Driver 1.
Driver 2 simply said 'That shifter has gotta go'.
After about 1000 miles with the MGW, I'm very pleased. I haven't missed a 2-3 yet. Is the MGW for everyone? No. To steal a line from another poster, "It's more industrial" is a great quote. It is a little noisier, especially when cold, but after it warms up/loosens up (as it breaks in it shouldn't quite be so clunky) it's very satisfying. If your Mustang is just a cruiser, and seldom if ever sees the redline on tach, you could probably skip the MGW, and just upgrade the rear bracket like a lot of Mustang owners do. If you want the best shifter you can buy for high performance track/drag strip (yes we know the pros all use automatics) fun, an MGW or other aftermarket shifter is highly recommended.
The stock unit was 'designed for the masses' with smoothness, feel, isolation from noise and vibration, and COST, while delivering 'acceptable' performance.
There are 5 factors that in my mind are the major contributors to shifting smoothly or missing a 2-3 shift under hard acceleration.
1) The driver's technique. How fast and how much you depress the clutch in conjunction when you move the shifter varies greatly for each driver.
2) The MT-82. Did you get 'a good one' that performs as designed from the factory?
3) How high you rev the engine when you start shifting.
4) The driver's physique (size, shape, physiology -huge feet/hands/long arms/long torso/short legs/etc).
5) The position of the seat, bottom and seat back.
If you had unlimited funds and could apply the scientific method to every single problem MT-82, and could perform instrumented tests, gather data in real time and over time, measure and quantify each of the above 5 factors, and then analyze all the data, you would find there's no single answer to explain a missed shift under hard acceleration. It's likely a mix of one, and more than one of the above.
Before my shifter upgrade, I had 2 experienced drivers take my Boss out for a test drive with the expressed purpose of testing the transmission under hard acceleration. One is an SCCA instructor who races M3's and has had over 20 years of track experience on just about every well known track in the US. The other driver is a hardcore muscle car guy, who's worked as a professional mechanic for over 20 years, and is an excellent drag racer. On both test drives, all I said was "I want your opinion on the stock shifter when you 'get on it' and tell me what you think." I didn't say anything else, just sat in the passenger seat and watched.
Both drivers missed the 2-3 shift.
Both drivers had the engine revving at or over 7000 rpm, but was kind of hard to tell sitting in the passenger seat. Neither driver has had another turn behind the wheel since the MGW went in, but I suspect it will increase the odds of a successful 2-3 shift on another test drive.
Driver 1 cited his opinion that he felt that it was the high torque at WOT that caused deflection of the shifter causing him to miss the gate. I paid close attention to each driver's hand on the shift **** on the 2-3 shift and both used the 'open hand' technique to push the shifter forward and not grab the ****. Driver 1 had his hand more on top of the shift ball and let the bottom half of his hand push the shifter forward, while Driver 2 had bent his wrist more to push the shift ball more from behind than from the top half as Driver 1.
Driver 2 simply said 'That shifter has gotta go'.
After about 1000 miles with the MGW, I'm very pleased. I haven't missed a 2-3 yet. Is the MGW for everyone? No. To steal a line from another poster, "It's more industrial" is a great quote. It is a little noisier, especially when cold, but after it warms up/loosens up (as it breaks in it shouldn't quite be so clunky) it's very satisfying. If your Mustang is just a cruiser, and seldom if ever sees the redline on tach, you could probably skip the MGW, and just upgrade the rear bracket like a lot of Mustang owners do. If you want the best shifter you can buy for high performance track/drag strip (yes we know the pros all use automatics) fun, an MGW or other aftermarket shifter is highly recommended.
8/16/12, 08:42 AM
#42
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feels fantastic. I had never driven one until I took delivery last Friday. The test drive I had a couple of months ago was in an automatic so I had no clue what the transmission would feel like. I have read many posts with drivers complaining about getting hung up in the gear box. I've even seen test videos on youtube where the car reviewers have trouble shifting from 2-3. Though I only have 300 miles on it so far, I am convinced this transmission is one of the best I have driven, if not the best manual transmissions I have ever owned.
I've not missed a single shift yet. I can get into each and every gear with no issues at all. Not even a lockout a stoplight. My last car was an ///M with a manual and it took awhile to really learn how to drive it correctly. I thought the transmission sucked after putting a few thousand miles on it only to realize I was not driving it the way it was intended to be driven. Once I learned how to shift it properly, I instantly concluded it was the best transmission - until I got the Mustang.
But seriously, the shifts are extremely precise and lock into gear each and every time. It feels absolutely amazing and cannot even begin to wonder what some of the other people are talking about. One thing I wonder about is how far they are sitting from the pedals. I have my seat pretty **** close, so close that my 200lb father can sit behind me in the back seat and still has leg room. My knees are pretty close to the dash but I want to ensure I am pounding the clutch pedal to the floor each and every time. I tried moving the sat back a couple of clicks but it did not feel right while driving and seemed more difficult to get the clutch pedal to the floor. Is it possible some people do not get the clutch all the way to floor which could definitely affect shifting thru the gears?
To conclude, the car still only has 300 miles but if the transmission feels this great right now, I can only imagine it will get even better as it breaks in some more.
I've not missed a single shift yet. I can get into each and every gear with no issues at all. Not even a lockout a stoplight. My last car was an ///M with a manual and it took awhile to really learn how to drive it correctly. I thought the transmission sucked after putting a few thousand miles on it only to realize I was not driving it the way it was intended to be driven. Once I learned how to shift it properly, I instantly concluded it was the best transmission - until I got the Mustang.
But seriously, the shifts are extremely precise and lock into gear each and every time. It feels absolutely amazing and cannot even begin to wonder what some of the other people are talking about. One thing I wonder about is how far they are sitting from the pedals. I have my seat pretty **** close, so close that my 200lb father can sit behind me in the back seat and still has leg room. My knees are pretty close to the dash but I want to ensure I am pounding the clutch pedal to the floor each and every time. I tried moving the sat back a couple of clicks but it did not feel right while driving and seemed more difficult to get the clutch pedal to the floor. Is it possible some people do not get the clutch all the way to floor which could definitely affect shifting thru the gears?
To conclude, the car still only has 300 miles but if the transmission feels this great right now, I can only imagine it will get even better as it breaks in some more.
Last edited by Rando; 8/17/12 at 07:17 AM.
8/16/12, 09:07 AM
#43
Bullitt Member
Thread Starter
Right...but if it ain't broke, why try and fix it? Could go back and forth with ya all day on it but we both know where we stand on the subject. I'm not going to spend any money on something that already works perfect for me.
8/16/12, 12:53 PM
#44
I Have No Life
Originally Posted by GRN 5OH
Right...but if it ain't broke, why try and fix it? Could go back and forth with ya all day on it but we both know where we stand on the subject. I'm not going to spend any money on something that already works perfect for me.
You're right, no need to go back and forth. Try shifting a car with MGW...then let me know what you think of the stock shifter.
Originally Posted by ace72ace
I took delivery of my '13 Boss on July 3rd. The MGW was already sitting on my shelf waiting for installation (along with a bunch of other mods). From all my forum research, internet browsing, and talking to other MGW owners I knew it was the right choice for me. I have the ability to directly compare the OEM & my MGW side by side as my wife owns an '11 GT.
The stock unit was 'designed for the masses' with smoothness, feel, isolation from noise and vibration, and COST, while delivering 'acceptable' performance.
There are 5 factors that in my mind are the major contributors to shifting smoothly or missing a 2-3 shift under hard acceleration.
1) The driver's technique. How fast and how much you depress the clutch in conjunction when you move the shifter varies greatly for each driver.
2) The MT-82. Did you get 'a good one' that performs as designed from the factory?
3) How high you rev the engine when you start shifting.
4) The driver's physique (size, shape, physiology -huge feet/hands/long arms/long torso/short legs/etc).
5) The position of the seat, bottom and seat back.
If you had unlimited funds and could apply the scientific method to every single problem MT-82, and could perform instrumented tests, gather data in real time and over time, measure and quantify each of the above 5 factors, and then analyze all the data, you would find there's no single answer to explain a missed shift under hard acceleration. It's likely a mix of one, and more than one of the above.
Before my shifter upgrade, I had 2 experienced drivers take my Boss out for a test drive with the expressed purpose of testing the transmission under hard acceleration. One is an SCCA instructor who races M3's and has had over 20 years of track experience on just about every well known track in the US. The other driver is a hardcore muscle car guy, who's worked as a professional mechanic for over 20 years, and is an excellent drag racer. On both test drives, all I said was "I want your opinion on the stock shifter when you 'get on it' and tell me what you think." I didn't say anything else, just sat in the passenger seat and watched.
Both drivers missed the 2-3 shift.
Both drivers had the engine revving at or over 7000 rpm, but was kind of hard to tell sitting in the passenger seat. Neither driver has had another turn behind the wheel since the MGW went in, but I suspect it will increase the odds of a successful 2-3 shift on another test drive.
Driver 1 cited his opinion that he felt that it was the high torque at WOT that caused deflection of the shifter causing him to miss the gate. I paid close attention to each driver's hand on the shift **** on the 2-3 shift and both used the 'open hand' technique to push the shifter forward and not grab the ****. Driver 1 had his hand more on top of the shift ball and let the bottom half of his hand push the shifter forward, while Driver 2 had bent his wrist more to push the shift ball more from behind than from the top half as Driver 1.
Driver 2 simply said 'That shifter has gotta go'.
After about 1000 miles with the MGW, I'm very pleased. I haven't missed a 2-3 yet. Is the MGW for everyone? No. To steal a line from another poster, "It's more industrial" is a great quote. It is a little noisier, especially when cold, but after it warms up/loosens up (as it breaks in it shouldn't quite be so clunky) it's very satisfying. If your Mustang is just a cruiser, and seldom if ever sees the redline on tach, you could probably skip the MGW, and just upgrade the rear bracket like a lot of Mustang owners do. If you want the best shifter you can buy for high performance track/drag strip (yes we know the pros all use automatics) fun, an MGW or other aftermarket shifter is highly recommended.
The stock unit was 'designed for the masses' with smoothness, feel, isolation from noise and vibration, and COST, while delivering 'acceptable' performance.
There are 5 factors that in my mind are the major contributors to shifting smoothly or missing a 2-3 shift under hard acceleration.
1) The driver's technique. How fast and how much you depress the clutch in conjunction when you move the shifter varies greatly for each driver.
2) The MT-82. Did you get 'a good one' that performs as designed from the factory?
3) How high you rev the engine when you start shifting.
4) The driver's physique (size, shape, physiology -huge feet/hands/long arms/long torso/short legs/etc).
5) The position of the seat, bottom and seat back.
If you had unlimited funds and could apply the scientific method to every single problem MT-82, and could perform instrumented tests, gather data in real time and over time, measure and quantify each of the above 5 factors, and then analyze all the data, you would find there's no single answer to explain a missed shift under hard acceleration. It's likely a mix of one, and more than one of the above.
Before my shifter upgrade, I had 2 experienced drivers take my Boss out for a test drive with the expressed purpose of testing the transmission under hard acceleration. One is an SCCA instructor who races M3's and has had over 20 years of track experience on just about every well known track in the US. The other driver is a hardcore muscle car guy, who's worked as a professional mechanic for over 20 years, and is an excellent drag racer. On both test drives, all I said was "I want your opinion on the stock shifter when you 'get on it' and tell me what you think." I didn't say anything else, just sat in the passenger seat and watched.
Both drivers missed the 2-3 shift.
Both drivers had the engine revving at or over 7000 rpm, but was kind of hard to tell sitting in the passenger seat. Neither driver has had another turn behind the wheel since the MGW went in, but I suspect it will increase the odds of a successful 2-3 shift on another test drive.
Driver 1 cited his opinion that he felt that it was the high torque at WOT that caused deflection of the shifter causing him to miss the gate. I paid close attention to each driver's hand on the shift **** on the 2-3 shift and both used the 'open hand' technique to push the shifter forward and not grab the ****. Driver 1 had his hand more on top of the shift ball and let the bottom half of his hand push the shifter forward, while Driver 2 had bent his wrist more to push the shift ball more from behind than from the top half as Driver 1.
Driver 2 simply said 'That shifter has gotta go'.
After about 1000 miles with the MGW, I'm very pleased. I haven't missed a 2-3 yet. Is the MGW for everyone? No. To steal a line from another poster, "It's more industrial" is a great quote. It is a little noisier, especially when cold, but after it warms up/loosens up (as it breaks in it shouldn't quite be so clunky) it's very satisfying. If your Mustang is just a cruiser, and seldom if ever sees the redline on tach, you could probably skip the MGW, and just upgrade the rear bracket like a lot of Mustang owners do. If you want the best shifter you can buy for high performance track/drag strip (yes we know the pros all use automatics) fun, an MGW or other aftermarket shifter is highly recommended.
8/16/12, 07:16 PM
#45
Mach 1 Member
https://themustangsource.com/f800/mt...solved-507402/
http://www.shop.bondraperformanceeng...usEZClutch.htm
Just sayin'. Buy this. That's what I'm sayin'.
http://www.shop.bondraperformanceeng...usEZClutch.htm
Just sayin'. Buy this. That's what I'm sayin'.
ME! That was ME! I reviewed that! FFS! I tried to tell you!
8/16/12, 07:51 PM
#46
My MT82 has been great until now. 3rd gear likes to fight and resist it seems.
8/17/12, 12:31 PM
#47
Bullitt Member
Thread Starter
8/17/12, 01:05 PM
#48
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I just turned over 1000km on mine. And so far it shifts well.
Haven't really driven it hard.
But....I do see where the problem is.
That open palm technique makes sure the shifter goes straight UP into the gate.
Where as normal shifting (at least what I consider normal to me), gives a little extra pressure diagonally.
Those gates being so close together, sometimes it has a tendency to slide over, instead of in.
So when I feel like it's going to miss, I just pause slightly and push it up more.
Definetly would be better if the gates were a little more spaced apart.
Haven't really driven it hard.
But....I do see where the problem is.
That open palm technique makes sure the shifter goes straight UP into the gate.
Where as normal shifting (at least what I consider normal to me), gives a little extra pressure diagonally.
Those gates being so close together, sometimes it has a tendency to slide over, instead of in.
So when I feel like it's going to miss, I just pause slightly and push it up more.
Definetly would be better if the gates were a little more spaced apart.
8/17/12, 01:16 PM
#49
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2011 GT/CS manual with 15,000+ miles since 29 Nov. 2010. Not any issues at all. I do not race it at the track but I do some high rpm shifting each time I drive, at least through 3rd and sometimes 4th depending where I am at.
I watch the tach because these cars are easy to hit the limiter in first and second. Most of my hard shifting is right at redline - a couple rpms.
I watch the tach because these cars are easy to hit the limiter in first and second. Most of my hard shifting is right at redline - a couple rpms.
8/25/12, 10:24 PM
#50
GT Member
Maybe the reasons that we are having different experiences with the MT82 Trans could be that Ford has made minor improvements in design build for 2013 as well. My Mustang went into production on MAR 30, 2012. As I may have stated before on this thread, I am have problems while shifting between gears 2-3.
Last edited by pcanno167; 9/5/12 at 03:37 AM.
8/26/12, 07:51 PM
#51
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https://themustangsource.com/f800/mt...solved-507402/
http://www.shop.bondraperformanceeng...usEZClutch.htm
Just sayin'. Buy this. That's what I'm sayin'.
http://www.shop.bondraperformanceeng...usEZClutch.htm
Just sayin'. Buy this. That's what I'm sayin'.
8/26/12, 10:09 PM
#52
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I agree 100%. Who designs a shifter that's fastened between a twisting engine and stiff chassis when the trans linkage relies on a precise push-pull, twist shaft linkage. Mount the whole shifter solid to the trans and I suspect the whole 2-3 shift lockout will disappear.
8/27/12, 09:04 AM
#53
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It's certain the smoothest coming out of 1st gear that I ever have experienced. This will be my 6th manual vehicle (all New) and driving stick for 30 years. All Honda's and BMW. I love the short throw and slight notcheness the shifter has too. Still keeping my fingers crossed though as to the MT-82 problems of the previous two years. So far it shifts like a dream for my tastes. I still wonder how much better I could be if I went with the barton bracket and such as some other posters have acclaimed.
8/27/12, 03:53 PM
#55
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Let me know how it works out when you do replace the MT/82 shifter. I love mine, but I also have been reading that just replacing only the stock shifter bracket with a barton bracket makes a noticeable and positive difference in the shifting feel. Sounds interesting. Hope all works out for you. I don't bring it to the track, so I can't see how you can get any shorter shifts than what the stock MT/82 already has to enjoy this car to it's fullest enjoyment. Notice I didn't use the word potential.
Good luck in all your endeavers and I hope everything works out for you and makes you happy!!!! Whew! Now That's a mouthful...
Good luck in all your endeavers and I hope everything works out for you and makes you happy!!!! Whew! Now That's a mouthful...
Last edited by Greg3; 8/27/12 at 04:04 PM.
8/27/12, 04:04 PM
#56
I have the Barton shifter and 2-post bracket and it made my shifting 90% better. It won't completely solve shifting issues though. I still randomly get the lock out at high RPM's. It happened to me at the track this weekend. I try to shift into second and griiiinnndd....gears not there. Ok....wait a few...try again...still grriiinnnddd...no gear yet...ok continue waiting letting the RPM's come down and the synchros settle....try a third time.....grrriiiin....oh wait...slip. There we go. Finally into gear.
8/27/12, 06:05 PM
#57
Legacy TMS Member
These cars have skip shift?
I was not aware, mine's never made me skip a shift, regardless of how slow I've driven it.
(and yeah, I did drive it slow at least once ... lol)
8/27/12, 06:35 PM
#58
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For those wondering why there's issues in shifting check out the MT82 (top) all the linkages and crap.... so now I definitely see how changing the cheap rubbery bracket would help with all the twisting from high revving... now I can't wait to install a new bracket asap!!
8/27/12, 06:38 PM
#59
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For those wondering why there's issues in shifting check out the MT82 (top) all the linkages and crap.... so now I definitely see how changing the cheap rubbery bracket would help with all the twisting from high revving... now I can't wait to install a new bracket asap!!
8/27/12, 07:29 PM
#60
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For those wondering why there's issues in shifting check out the MT82 (top) all the linkages and crap.... so now I definitely see how changing the cheap rubbery bracket would help with all the twisting from high revving... now I can't wait to install a new bracket asap!!