Motor Trend review is up !
Shelby GT500 Member
Joined: September 2, 2004
Posts: 2,594
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From: Chicago
The Camaros biggest problem is that it needs Jenny Craig bad. GM made the Camaro too heavy and there really is no way around that. Also, the Camaro's interior needs to be revised to match the Mustang. Ford sent GM back to the drawing board in 2011 and possibly back to the grave in a few years.
Mach 1 Member
Joined: May 18, 2007
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The Camaros biggest problem is that it needs Jenny Craig bad. GM made the Camaro too heavy and there really is no way around that. Also, the Camaro's interior needs to be revised to match the Mustang. Ford sent GM back to the drawing board in 2011 and possibly back to the grave in a few years.
Mach 1 Member
Joined: May 2, 2005
Posts: 607
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Yes, 500 RWP is not hard with bolt-ons on LS3's. It's fairly easy and streetable on LS2's as well. LS1's take alot of mods to do it with, but even it has been done before on stock cubes without FI.
N/A I agree. But with boost not so much. Though the LS ports can match the 4v's, they can't on valve area. That makes a difference when atmospheres are forced in.
I've been saying this for a while even on GM boards. Example: a bone stock 6.0 LS2 making 400 hp will see a garunteed 50 RWHP increase with the LS3/L92 upper and corresponding tune. So if a motor with .2L more and vastly superior heads is "only" making 25-30 more hp there is plenty more on the table.
Count it as my opinion if you want but if Ford mad a 6.2L with all of the DOHC etc it would be huge. DOHC alone adds alot of girth.
To play devils advocate when they compared the 2010 SS to the 2010 Stang most here and everywhere else said "wait till the 5.0!" Why can't they do the same?
Many here said the 5.0 will "blow the doors" etc etc. While faster yes, a skull dragging it is not.
They have 6.2L, They have S/C's (from them), they have "insert implied advantage here" it's what happens when two similarly compared cars with disimilar tech clash. The engine itself is not the advantage of the new 5.0, the whole package is and how it achieves it is.
No it wouldn't be "no contest" but it would even the odds a bit given the 3.73 geared track pack closed the distance some in the 2010 Stang vs 2010 Camaro.
Well ya the auto camaro has less hp than the auto stang. It should be expected. But if the CTS-V is any indicator an auto LS3 camaro would be faster than the manual LS3 camaro.
While yes it is great,not even close would be an elise vs a 3rd gen. The numbers will prove comparible but ultimately favoring the stang. The same was said about the 1/4 mile predictions by some. They are quite comparible.
I would expect no less.
Nope. It's a driver's race, and a goal to set for. They (scott settlemyer, and Camaro brand manager as well as all Camaro brass) asked us what we wanted and listened for the most part. Well they asked again and you can guess what responses they are getting. We have 12 insiders with a whole list of demands. Rivalry is great.
N/A I agree. But with boost not so much. Though the LS ports can match the 4v's, they can't on valve area. That makes a difference when atmospheres are forced in.
I've been saying this for a while even on GM boards. Example: a bone stock 6.0 LS2 making 400 hp will see a garunteed 50 RWHP increase with the LS3/L92 upper and corresponding tune. So if a motor with .2L more and vastly superior heads is "only" making 25-30 more hp there is plenty more on the table.
Count it as my opinion if you want but if Ford mad a 6.2L with all of the DOHC etc it would be huge. DOHC alone adds alot of girth.
To play devils advocate when they compared the 2010 SS to the 2010 Stang most here and everywhere else said "wait till the 5.0!" Why can't they do the same?
Many here said the 5.0 will "blow the doors" etc etc. While faster yes, a skull dragging it is not.
They have 6.2L, They have S/C's (from them), they have "insert implied advantage here" it's what happens when two similarly compared cars with disimilar tech clash. The engine itself is not the advantage of the new 5.0, the whole package is and how it achieves it is.
No it wouldn't be "no contest" but it would even the odds a bit given the 3.73 geared track pack closed the distance some in the 2010 Stang vs 2010 Camaro.
Well ya the auto camaro has less hp than the auto stang. It should be expected. But if the CTS-V is any indicator an auto LS3 camaro would be faster than the manual LS3 camaro.
While yes it is great,not even close would be an elise vs a 3rd gen. The numbers will prove comparible but ultimately favoring the stang. The same was said about the 1/4 mile predictions by some. They are quite comparible.
I would expect no less.
Nope. It's a driver's race, and a goal to set for. They (scott settlemyer, and Camaro brand manager as well as all Camaro brass) asked us what we wanted and listened for the most part. Well they asked again and you can guess what responses they are getting. We have 12 insiders with a whole list of demands. Rivalry is great.
Shelby GT500 Member
Joined: September 2, 2004
Posts: 2,594
Likes: 0
From: Chicago
Agreed it is porky however, very apt. Check out pedders camaro on youtube. It keeps a ZR1 in the rearview despite being 600+ lbs heavier. Drawing board yes grave not hardly. Back out swinging you bet. Which is good means Ford will probably have a 450+hp 5.? by 2015.
Put Jan Magnuson in a ZR1 and bye bye Camaro.
I Have No Life
Joined: January 30, 2004
Posts: 10,446
Likes: 12
From: Canada
As others have stated, the Camaro number was not on the same track/day as the GT numbers correct?
Unless they were side by side on the unprepped surface, the numbers don't tell the whole story.
The V6 and GT could be slightly faster in better hands, and surface. (10th or 2)
And what will the average person be?
once they hit the street VS the 2011 Camaros, then we'll see...
but the potential is there for both vehicles.
Unless they were side by side on the unprepped surface, the numbers don't tell the whole story.
The V6 and GT could be slightly faster in better hands, and surface. (10th or 2)
And what will the average person be?
once they hit the street VS the 2011 Camaros, then we'll see...
but the potential is there for both vehicles.
Team Mustang Source
Joined: January 29, 2004
Posts: 2,358
Likes: 1
As others have stated, the Camaro number was not on the same track/day as the GT numbers correct?
Unless they were side by side on the unprepped surface, the numbers don't tell the whole story.
The V6 and GT could be slightly faster in better hands, and surface. (10th or 2)
And what will the average person be?
once they hit the street VS the 2011 Camaros, then we'll see...
but the potential is there for both vehicles.
Unless they were side by side on the unprepped surface, the numbers don't tell the whole story.
The V6 and GT could be slightly faster in better hands, and surface. (10th or 2)
And what will the average person be?
once they hit the street VS the 2011 Camaros, then we'll see...
but the potential is there for both vehicles.
In terms of handling, I strongly suspect may hear more than a few reviewers call the new Mustang the best handling American car ever. (subjectively of course)
Legacy TMS Member
Joined: January 18, 2008
Posts: 452
Likes: 2
From: Northern Cali
Agreed it is porky however, very apt. Check out pedders camaro on youtube. It keeps a ZR1 in the rearview despite being 600+ lbs heavier. Drawing board yes grave not hardly. Back out swinging you bet. Which is good means Ford will probably have a 450+hp 5.? by 2015.
Agreed, however there is the issue of who is driving... Camaro is no slouch and is built on a very good albeit heavy platform. I think what GM should do is to trim weight where they can because that is really why it doesn't do as well on skid pad tests as the GT. My only two other gripes with the car are the interior; which is bland with hit and miss material quality and the read end... (ugh). I wish they would have used the back of a '70 as their design base. Those gripes of course dont have any affect on performance... If it forces Ford to go 450hp for the 50th I will be happy!!!
Shelby GT500 Member
Joined: September 2, 2004
Posts: 2,594
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From: Chicago
That would be silly since the Viper and Corvette are superiour handling vehicles. The 2011 Mustang GT will still be slower around a road course than a base Vette. Now, if we are talking about feel that's definitely subjective as you mentioned.
Mach 1 Member
Joined: September 23, 2008
Posts: 879
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Exactly. It's just a guess, but I'm looking for a 12.6 to creep out from one of the mainstream auto rags before all is said and done since, thus far, the Mustang has only been tested on an unprepared surface and, almost certainly, in less than ideal weather conditions.
In terms of handling, I strongly suspect may hear more than a few reviewers call the new Mustang the best handling American car ever. (subjectively of course)
In terms of handling, I strongly suspect may hear more than a few reviewers call the new Mustang the best handling American car ever. (subjectively of course)
Dave
MOTM Committee Member
Joined: April 17, 2006
Posts: 9,201
Likes: 2
From: SoCal
Everyone keeps saying only .1 difference like that one test is the end all be all. Give it time the true numbers will come out
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Mach 1 Member
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Ya ya I know necro but I'm the oddball here so I can do that :P besides been having net problems or limited time lately and couldn't get in to comment.
Maybe, the camaro in that vid had less body roll than the ZR1 (the point of my post actually). And when both nailed it comming out the straights the ZR1 didn't gain any ground. I'm sure equal drivers would mean a ZR1 win but the ZR1 driver did fairly well and wasn't close to overcomming it. Pedders knows their stuff about Zeta and their camaro posts numbers (skidpad etc) the same or better than the ZR1. They have G8's with over 1.g numbers as well.
X2
As others have stated, the Camaro number was not on the same track/day as the GT numbers correct?
Unless they were side by side on the unprepped surface, the numbers don't tell the whole story.
The V6 and GT could be slightly faster in better hands, and surface. (10th or 2)
And what will the average person be?
once they hit the street VS the 2011 Camaros, then we'll see...
but the potential is there for both vehicles.
Unless they were side by side on the unprepped surface, the numbers don't tell the whole story.
The V6 and GT could be slightly faster in better hands, and surface. (10th or 2)
And what will the average person be?
once they hit the street VS the 2011 Camaros, then we'll see...
but the potential is there for both vehicles.
Last edited by Slims00ls1z28; Apr 3, 2010 at 12:56 AM.
Cobra R Member
Joined: June 3, 2004
Posts: 1,569
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From: PA
'05 GT w/ Manual trans., 3.55 rear, K&N intake, Borla axle-back & TS Performance custom tune (93 octane)
Banned
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The ZR1 pulls 1.1g in mag skidpad tests. The new Mustang is not going to outhandle a ZR1, Z06, or even a base C6. Did you mean muscle car?
Legacy TMS Member
Joined: January 6, 2006
Posts: 14,053
Likes: 166
From: Bay Area, CA
*Attainable* American car is more appropriate. And I think the new GT with the Brembo Pkg will give a base C6 a good run for the money. Grand Sport? Probably not...
Mach 1 Member
Joined: May 18, 2007
Posts: 830
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Don't get me wrong not trying knock the GT but the Stang faces the same problem against the Vette as the Camaro does vs a GT. Couple hundred pounds. On top of the HP defecit, higher center of gravity, narrower tires etc. Good driver stang, bad driver vette sure I can live with that, but with both being equal I don't see it doing as well vs the vette as the camaro does vs the stang. Modded different ball of wax. Stock to stock, apples to oranges for those two, the C6 is well sorted out and probably close to the peak for the platform. Still a drivers race for sure as they aren't that far off. Closer in a drag race than a 1/4 for sure.
Last edited by Slims00ls1z28; Apr 4, 2010 at 03:16 AM.
Post *****
Joined: October 9, 2007
Posts: 32,808
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The fact that a stock GT can go 0-60 in 4.2 to 4.5 is amazing. Those numbers are crazy fast for a production car that will sell in the tens of thousands. And of course the V6 is amazing too considering its times against older GT's.
Your typical car person that cares about performance but won't track the car will more than likely look at these numbers as a sign of performance. They won't hit 109 in the car. But they might do 40-80 as fast as possible on the on ramp.
Unfortunately I have too many cars and already have a Mustang faster than this so I cant see buying one anytime soon. But if I didn't already have the '07 this would have really pulled me into the dealer to finally get my first Mustang, or as many will do, another 5.0 many years later.
Your typical car person that cares about performance but won't track the car will more than likely look at these numbers as a sign of performance. They won't hit 109 in the car. But they might do 40-80 as fast as possible on the on ramp.
Unfortunately I have too many cars and already have a Mustang faster than this so I cant see buying one anytime soon. But if I didn't already have the '07 this would have really pulled me into the dealer to finally get my first Mustang, or as many will do, another 5.0 many years later.
MOTM Committee Member
Joined: April 17, 2006
Posts: 9,201
Likes: 2
From: SoCal
The fact that a stock GT can go 0-60 in 4.2 to 4.5 is amazing. Those numbers are crazy fast for a production car that will sell in the tens of thousands. And of course the V6 is amazing too considering its times against older GT's.
Your typical car person that cares about performance but won't track the car will more than likely look at these numbers as a sign of performance. They won't hit 109 in the car. But they might do 40-80 as fast as possible on the on ramp.
Unfortunately I have too many cars and already have a Mustang faster than this so I cant see buying one anytime soon. But if I didn't already have the '07 this would have really pulled me into the dealer to finally get my first Mustang, or as many will do, another 5.0 many years later.
Your typical car person that cares about performance but won't track the car will more than likely look at these numbers as a sign of performance. They won't hit 109 in the car. But they might do 40-80 as fast as possible on the on ramp.
Unfortunately I have too many cars and already have a Mustang faster than this so I cant see buying one anytime soon. But if I didn't already have the '07 this would have really pulled me into the dealer to finally get my first Mustang, or as many will do, another 5.0 many years later.
. Heck my 126hp cougar has seen higher lol