GT98

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jack Frost @ February 28, 2006, 11:27 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
What's so great about them?

Watch these episodes side by side:

Ford Mustang GT:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=63...2824&q=top+gear

Mazda RX8

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=35...2831&q=top+gear

Two reviews by the same tv show: Top Gear, the best automotive show bar none. Note that they didn't even bother taking the Mustang on their test track.

And again, my dream car would consist of the design and engine of the Mustang GT, coupled to the handling sophistication and refinement of the RX8.

Such a car, even at the price of the RX8...would be a *world wide* sales phenomenon.

It's the car Ford should've built.
[/b][/quote]


Why am I going to base MY options off someone elses options? Thats stupid...not to mention that Top Gear has an anti-American bias for the most part..I'm going to form my option on what experance, not what someone else has experanced. I was speaking on my experance with the Civic, G35 coupe, Camry and Acura TL, which I have either driven or been a passenger in.

I just dont get why you have such a hardon about the Mustang vs what else is out there..why dont you sell your Mustang and get what you want? Whats so hard about that concept?

In your prior posts you claim how great your 03 ZX5 is...I have an SVT Focus and its the biggest POS I've ever owned. Theres more to a car then its performance....if its not running right or breaking down on you, whats the point in owning it?

Knight

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(max2000jp @ February 28, 2006, 1:13 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I agree it's a stunning car, but minor upgrades don't cost 4K. The cheap plastic could be upgraded very economically. A few other optional features would be nice too. Give me a telescoping wheel, heated seats, and HIDs. All are available technology that Ford could borrow from their numerous brands. I still think that Ford missed the boat by not offering a 6 speed manual and IRS. [/b][/quote]

telescoping wheel, heated seats and HIDs are all things that i think should never be on a mustang. I would much rather pay less then have that junk.

the mustang is not a luxury car. Its a inexpensive performance car.. IRS and 6-speed should be had before any of the luxury stuff.

The mustang has gotten so expensive that I have been cut out of being able to afford one already.

GT98

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(max2000jp @ February 28, 2006, 11:35 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Ford is well know for using cheap materials and taking shortcuts interior wise. Go out and look at Hondas and Toyotas. Compare the competition to the Fusion or 500, even the Focus. Not even a contest. Sadly, Ford's nicest interiors are on their trucks. People aren't brainwashed, rather have become more eductated consumers. They will not buy inferior products anymore, thus GM and Ford needs to change or sink.
[/b][/quote]


I have...I've been in a 200 Civic and wasn't impressed by the materials in it (thought my SVT Focus was just as nice, both in materials and finish) and I was in a 2004 Camry and wasn't that impressed by it either. Nothing better or worse then I've seen in Ford Product. My Brother in law has a 99 TL and isn't that great, but my Friend has a 2004 TL, which is leaps and bounds nicer then the older TL. But then again for over 30K it better be better. My friend who has the TL now had a G35 Coupe, which I thought was a POS...your paying over 30K for a $%&#ing silver painted dash? WTF! The leather was pretty nice, but the dash is a major letdown.

I haven't had any time in the 500, but I have seen the Fusion in person and it looked just as good as the Camry I was in a couple months ago. I didnt care for the cream colored plastic on the Fusion that my friend had, but it didnt look like tupperware like some GM products do. Even the reviewers of the 500 and Fusion say they have nice interiors, that are just as nice as their Japanese counterparts.

max2000jp

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Knight @ February 28, 2006, 10:45 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
telescoping wheel, heated seats and HIDs are all things that i think should never be on a mustang. I would much rather pay less then have that junk.

the mustang is not a luxury car. Its a inexpensive performance car.. IRS and 6-speed should be had before any of the luxury stuff.

The mustang has gotten so expensive that I have been cut out of being able to afford one already.
[/b][/quote]

Who cares if they are options? You can get HID's on a Focus, is that a Luxury car?


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GT98 @ February 28, 2006, 10:46 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I have...I've been in a 200 Civic and wasn't impressed by the materials in it (thought my SVT Focus was just as nice, both in materials and finish) and I was in a 2004 Camry and wasn't that impressed by it either. Nothing better or worse then I've seen in Ford Product. My Brother in law has a 99 TL and isn't that great, but my Friend has a 2004 TL, which is leaps and bounds nicer then the older TL. But then again for over 30K it better be better. My friend who has the TL now had a G35 Coupe, which I thought was a POS...your paying over 30K for a $%&#ing silver painted dash? WTF! The leather was pretty nice, but the dash is a major letdown.

I haven't had any time in the 500, but I have seen the Fusion in person and it looked just as good as the Camry I was in a couple months ago. I didnt care for the cream colored plastic on the Fusion that my friend had, but it didnt look like tupperware like some GM products do. Even the reviewers of the 500 and Fusion say they have nice interiors, that are just as nice as their Japanese counterparts.
[/b][/quote]

Japanese designers put more time and effort into interior design. I can't think of one American car that I would say has a nice interior. Lincoln's are alright and Cadillac is starting to improve. Honestly, one of the nicest interiors I've seen in an American car was the GTO. The Fusion/500 is not as nice as a Camry or Avalon.

max2000jp

GT98 read this: http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?se...5&page_number=4

"If Ford can clean up the fit-and-finish details we've mentioned, the Fusion should strengthen Ford's line where it has long been weakest, right in the middle."

GT98

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(max2000jp @ February 28, 2006, 12:06 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
GT98 read this: http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?se...5&page_number=4

"If Ford can clean up the fit-and-finish details we've mentioned, the Fusion should strengthen Ford's line where it has long been weakest, right in the middle."
[/b][/quote]

Well I'll let you in on something about that article. It was published Dec 2005, which means that it was written at least 60 days before it was published. The Fusion didnt go on sale till October 2005, meaning the unit they tested was a Pre-production unit that still didnt have all the bugs ironed out of it.

The same thing happened with the 500...the finish on the interior was attacked, yet 6 months later in that same publication/webpage (IIRC dont recall which one) it tested another 500 and it had nothing but good things about the interior [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/headscratch.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img]

Dont take everything you see for its face value

max2000jp

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GT98 @ February 28, 2006, 1:38 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Well I'll let you in on something about that article. It was published Dec 2005, which means that it was written at least 60 days before it was published. The Fusion didnt go on sale till October 2005, meaning the unit they tested was a Pre-production unit that still didnt have all the bugs ironed out of it.

The same thing happened with the 500...the finish on the interior was attacked, yet 6 months later in that same publication/webpage (IIRC dont recall which one) it tested another 500 and it had nothing but good things about the interior [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/headscratch.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img]

Dont take everything you see for its face value
[/b][/quote]

Excuses Excuses...I take what I see in person for face value. I was just at the Chicago Auto show a few weeks back. What I saw in person is exactly what Car and Driver described. Did Ford change the ergonomics and materials within the last 6 months? Not that I know of. Ford interiors are definetly improving, but still need work to be on par with the imports.

I like the 05 Mustang interior, but if the materials were improved it would be a lot nicer. The leather quality, fit/finish, and plastics could use work. I think a lot of owners would be willing to pay a small amount to fix this. That's one of the reasons why a lot of owners have a lot of interior rattles....Cheap plastics.

GT98

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(max2000jp @ February 28, 2006, 3:59 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Excuses Excuses...I take what I see in person for face value. I was just at the Chicago Auto show a few weeks back. What I saw in person is exactly what Car and Driver described. Did Ford change the ergonomics and materials within the last 6 months? Not that I know of. Ford interiors are definetly improving, but still need work to be on par with the imports.
[/b][/quote]

Uh we talking materals or we talking fit? Looks like to me that the C&D had fit issue problems, and not any issues with the materials used in the car. Futher more, you can't compare a Autoshow car with what you find out on the dealer lot..they get abused by people who sit in them at the show.

A friend of mine got a new Fusion SE that I saw last Thursday night. The only apparent issue I saw with it was the door panels on it...they looked kind of cheap, but I'm also not a fan of cream colored plastics either and it was night time, so I reserve the right to change my option on that.

05fordgt

Hey Jason, what Scott says it true. We didn't get our first Fusions till early November! They had a pre-production unit. Lets all be honest, that the first cars off the line are a little worse than say, the 40,000 car off the line. Here's an excellent example that uses a Ford vehicle. When Road & Track first tested the near-production ready Ford GT, they LOVED IT, but a bid negative was the lack of cushioning and support from the seats. Now, when they got their hands on a "true" production car (Ford's press GT, they gushed all over the car, and commended the seats as being some of the best in an exotic car. See when these magazines do their tests, with new cars that aren't on the lots yet, they sometimes use pre-production cars. Plus, some of these cars are the company's press cars, and are, in a simple term, "beat on" by reviewers. In regards to the Fusion, we have had customers come in, and take the car for a test drive, and are thoroughly impressed with all aspects of the car.

In terms of interior quality, there was a sports car, that came out a few years ago, and this was a BIG issue in regards to its first few years on the market. Most auto publications, while loving its performance, and looks, downgraded its interior appointments, saying the plastics were not on par with the rest of the car. What car was this? The Nissan 350Z coupe. I've driven one the first year they were out. Nice car, not enough power, but the interior materials were cheap looking. So its not only a Mustang that has cheap looking materials in a car.

I just love when people come on here, and say Ford and GM are both going to go under. It's like some on here want this to happen. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img] Let me say, If, and that is a BIG IF, that would ever happen, the ripple effect from a MAJOR car company, who employes hundreds of thousands throught all its N.A operations, would be severe! It would cause a loss of jobs for suppliers, and for many others. It would start a recession of monumental proportions. Remember back when Chrysler was in trouble. Ford and GM helped bail them out. I for one, want both GM and Ford to get on the positive track again.

Oh and BTW, Jason, which Focus, available today, has HID lights as an option?

max2000jp

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GT98 @ February 28, 2006, 3:14 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Uh we talking materals or we talking fit? Looks like to me that the C&D had fit issue problems, and not any issues with the materials used in the car. Futher more, you can't compare a Autoshow car with what you find out on the dealer lot..they get abused by people who sit in them at the show.

A friend of mine got a new Fusion SE that I saw last Thursday night. The only apparent issue I saw with it was the door panels on it...they looked kind of cheap, but I'm also not a fan of cream colored plastics either and it was night time, so I reserve the right to change my option on that.
[/b][/quote]

I've also sat in a Fusion in my local Ford dealer. While it's a huge improvement over the Taurus, it's still not up to import levels. The plastics still need work and the fit and finish is lacking. Even Lincoln's MKZ looked cheap inside compared to a TL or new Lexus ES. American car companies don't put enough time and effort into interiors. The Fusion is a good car and will be even better if the car gets Ford's new V6.

GT98

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(max2000jp @ February 28, 2006, 4:43 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I've also sat in a Fusion in my local Ford dealer. While it's a huge improvement over the Taurus, it's still not up to import levels. The plastics still need work and the fit and finish is lacking. Even Lincoln's MKZ looked cheap inside compared to a TL or new Lexus ES. American car companies don't put enough time and effort into interiors. The Fusion is a good car and will be even better if the car gets Ford's new V6.
[/b][/quote]


Thats strange since Fords new focus has been trying to improve its interiors (witness the IUP in the Mustang..its an possible option on the upcoming Edge!)...I haven't sat in Zeypher myself yet, but maybe I should...I've driven my friends 04 TL and my bro in law has 99 I think. The only thing I wasn't keen on in the TL was the camel colored interior on the lower sections in my buddies car.

max2000jp

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GT98 @ February 28, 2006, 3:47 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Thats strange since Fords new focus has been trying to improve its interiors (witness the IUP in the Mustang..its an possible option on the upcoming Edge!)...I haven't sat in Zeypher myself yet, but maybe I should...I've driven my friends 04 TL and my bro in law has 99 I think. The only thing I wasn't keen on in the TL was the camel colored interior on the lower sections in my buddies car.
[/b][/quote]

Ford has been improving their interiors, but the problem is that they were so far behind the competition. Ford focused on SUV's and neglected their passenger vehicles until recently. Interestingly enough, the Fusion does offer a lot of nice features at a great price. I noticed it comes standard with a tilt/telescoping steering wheel, which would be nice on our cars. Some other optional features that Ford could carryover from the Fusion to future Mustangs would be:

-Premium Package: Heated Mirrors w/ puddle lights, Electrochromatic Rearview Mirror, Compass, and Auto headlights--- $395

-Heated Front Seats w/ 2 settings: $295

Finally, while not available in the Fusion, HID's would be a nice option. Figure 500 dollars for an optional OEM system. The above options IMO are affordable for people purchasing a 25K GT.

max2000jp

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(05fordgt @ February 28, 2006, 3:41 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Hey Jason, what Scott says it true. We didn't get our first Fusions till early November! They had a pre-production unit. Lets all be honest, that the first cars off the line are a little worse than say, the 40,000 car off the line. Here's an excellent example that uses a Ford vehicle. When Road & Track first tested the near-production ready Ford GT, they LOVED IT, but a bid negative was the lack of cushioning and support from the seats. Now, when they got their hands on a "true" production car (Ford's press GT, they gushed all over the car, and commended the seats as being some of the best in an exotic car. See when these magazines do their tests, with new cars that aren't on the lots yet, they sometimes use pre-production cars. Plus, some of these cars are the company's press cars, and are, in a simple term, "beat on" by reviewers. In regards to the Fusion, we have had customers come in, and take the car for a test drive, and are thoroughly impressed with all aspects of the car.

In terms of interior quality, there was a sports car, that came out a few years ago, and this was a BIG issue in regards to its first few years on the market. Most auto publications, while loving its performance, and looks, downgraded its interior appointments, saying the plastics were not on par with the rest of the car. What car was this? The Nissan 350Z coupe. I've driven one the first year they were out. Nice car, not enough power, but the interior materials were cheap looking. So its not only a Mustang that has cheap looking materials in a car.

I just love when people come on here, and say Ford and GM are both going to go under. It's like some on here want this to happen. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img] Let me say, If, and that is a BIG IF, that would ever happen, the ripple effect from a MAJOR car company, who employes hundreds of thousands throught all its N.A operations, would be severe! It would cause a loss of jobs for suppliers, and for many others. It would start a recession of monumental proportions. Remember back when Chrysler was in trouble. Ford and GM helped bail them out. I for one, want both GM and Ford to get on the positive track again.

Oh and BTW, Jason, which Focus, available today, has HID lights as an option?
[/b][/quote]

Funny you should mention the 350Z. I looked at one in 03 and a good friend of mine purchased one that year. The description of the interior is dead on. The Automotive press and 350z owners complained about the interior quality. Want to know what Nissan did????? They actually LISTENED to their customers and upgraded the interior in 05 350Z. The plastics were upgraded as well as some other minor details.

I am hoping for GM and Ford to get out of their slump. The only way they are going to do this is to build cars that EXCEED their competition. Frankly, the American consumer doesn't have a lot of confidence in GM and Ford. They need to prove that their cars are BETTER than the imports. FYI....The US Gov't bailed out Chrysler through loans and cash.

As for HIDs, I've seen Ford Focus' on the road with HID's and know some models came with them. It could have been a special edition or the SVT Focus. I do know that the Mazda 3 offer them.

05fordgt

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(max2000jp @ February 28, 2006, 5:29 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Funny you should mention the 350Z. I looked at one in 03 and a good friend of mine purchased one that year. The description of the interior is dead on. The Automotive press and 350z owners complained about the interior quality. Want to know what Nissan did????? They actually LISTENED to their customers and upgraded the interior in 05 350Z. The plastics were upgraded as well as some other minor details.

I am hoping for GM and Ford to get out of their slump. The only way they are going to do this is to build cars that EXCEED their competition. Frankly, the American consumer doesn't have a lot of confidence in GM and Ford. They need to prove that their cars are BETTER than the imports. FYI....The US Gov't bailed out Chrysler through loans and cash.

As for HIDs, I've seen Ford Focus' on the road with HID's and know some models came with them. It could have been a special edition or the SVT Focus. I do know that the Mazda 3 offer them.
[/b][/quote]

I'm glad that you saw the article on the Z. Yes, Nissan did listen. If you really want to know what one of the biggest issues with costs of new vehicles is.. the cost of health care for employees and retirees. It is getting out of control. The cost of health care per vehicle for GM is something like $1500 or so, and like $1,000 for Ford. Thats alot. With the foreign cars, the government pays for the health care of the retirees, not the manufacturer. And, just to let you know, the other 2 had a good sised hand in helping Chrysler out in the '80's, not just the government.

Yes, SVT Focus models did have HID's as an option, but from the way you worded your question, you said you could get it in a Focus today. Sorry if I misunderstood you.

hi5.0

Since this is turning into a debate regarding interior plastics quality/fit and finish, maybe someone can start a poll? How about something like, "Would you pay more for a Ford with a better quality interior?" or, "If Ford were to reduce prices through de-contenting, would you still be interested in a Ford?" Something like that. Still looking for more about 2009 Mustang speculation...

Route 66

Blah blah blah. I'm getting tired of this in the 2009 speculation section. Why can't Brad have a bicthing area for some of you guys so the rest of us need not put up with it...

05fordgt

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Route 66 @ February 28, 2006, 7:40 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Blah blah blah. I'm getting tired of this in the 2009 speculation section. Why can't Brad have a bicthing area for some of you guys so the rest of us need not put up with it...
[/b][/quote]

Matt, I don't want to keep doing this. I'm personally getting tired of it, I really am. The only reason I got involved at all, was I wanted to defend the new Mustang against a few guys who were upset that it was not up to standards with a "world sports car" ITS A MUSTANG, NOT A DARN PORSCHE!!! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif[/img] I just couldn't sit idly by, while the car I love to death, was getting slammed because it doesn't have heated seats [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img] . Who the heck cares!! Just love the car for what it is, and for what Ford did. They brought back a true muscle car, and reinvented the fastback again. Thank you Ford, thank you. You got me to buy one, (my 1st new car ever), and I couldn't be happier with it. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]

max2000jp

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Route 66 @ February 28, 2006, 6:40 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Blah blah blah. I'm getting tired of this in the 2009 speculation section. Why can't Brad have a bicthing area for some of you guys so the rest of us need not put up with it...
[/b][/quote]

I don't see anyone female *******, rather adding input into what would make the Mustang a better vehicle. If Mustang owners would demand more and become vocal, maybe Ford will implement changes. 05Fordgt pointed out a prime example of owners vocalizing weaknesses in a vehicle and a manufacturer fixing them. Is asking for a better product a bad thing?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(05fordgt @ February 28, 2006, 7:06 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Matt, I don't want to keep doing this. I'm personally getting tired of it, I really am. The only reason I got involved at all, was I wanted to defend the new Mustang against a few guys who were upset that it was not up to standards with a "world sports car" ITS A MUSTANG, NOT A DARN PORSCHE!!! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif[/img] I just couldn't sit idly by, while the car I love to death, was getting slammed because it doesn't have heated seats [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img] . Who the heck cares!! Just love the car for what it is, and for what Ford did. They brought back a true muscle car, and reinvented the fastback again. Thank you Ford, thank you. You got me to buy one, (my 1st new car ever), and I couldn't be happier with it. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]

Porsches come with 6 speed manuals and an IRS rear [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen.gif[/img] I don't think anyone is expecting Ford to build a Porsche. It's simply not feasible. What would be nice is if Ford added additional modernization. It's not asking much and all of the technology I've mentioned is readily available.

Hollywood_North GT

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(max2000jp @ February 28, 2006, 5:14 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I don't see anyone female *******, rather adding input into what would make the Mustang a better vehicle. If Mustang owners would demand more and become vocal, maybe Ford will implement changes. 05Fordgt pointed out a prime example of owners vocalizing weaknesses in a vehicle and a manufacturer fixing them. Is asking for a better product a bad thing?
Porsches come with 6 speed manuals and an IRS rear [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen.gif[/img] I don't think anyone is expecting Ford to build a Porsche. It's simply not feasible. What would be nice is if Ford added additional modernization. It's not asking much and all of the technology I've mentioned is readily available.
[/b][/quote]
You're wasting your time, Jason. They can not (or choose not) to see it. Meanwhile, Ford continues to lose market share because of it. I'm so sick of the argument that Ford is losing out in sales to the imports because of legacy costs. For crying out loud, legacy costs have NOTHING to do with what vehicle or brand a customer CHOOSES. And those customers are increasingly choosing not to buy domestics. Why? Because they SEE - not "perceive" mind you, but SEE - real differences in quality and features.

Are Ford and GM improving? Sure. Is it enough or is it happening fast enough to turn the tide? Not so far by the measure of most business/marketing/financial experts.

But those here who tell us that the Mustang quality is "good enough" and that Ford is turning things around, remind me of the first mate on the Titanic yelling at everyone that "the ship is unsinkable" even as the bow is slipping under the water.

Ford chose to go the cheap route with its legendary coupe, when sinking another $1K to $2K worth of quality and features into it would have gone a long way to improve the car's broader market appeal. Perhaps that will be addressed in a future SE model. We'll have to wait and see.

05fordgt

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(max2000jp @ February 28, 2006, 8:14 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I don't see anyone female *******, rather adding input into what would make the Mustang a better vehicle. If Mustang owners would demand more and become vocal, maybe Ford will implement changes.
[/b][/quote]

If you didn't know, the Mustang was all slated to be axed after the 1993 model finished production. Ford was all set to make the Probe (yes, that P.O.S Probe) the new "pony car". Once word got out, pretty much every Mustang club in the country wrote to Ford, and demanded that they don't do this. Good thing that they didn't because the Probe was not that nice of a car. If you have a GT, and that engine goes, be prepared to pay BIG $$$ for a fix. This is an example of Mustang owners voicing their opinions, and being heard.

And B.C, Don't tell me what I do and don't see. I can see just fine. I talk to the customers every day, since I sell Fords for a living. There are many things that blow my mind when it comes to the new cars we get. For example, the door handles on the new Explorer, BAD placement, just stupid. To think that engineers can think its great where they put them. Ford realized the mistake, and are fixing it for next year. The HVAC controls for the Fusion. I do wish that they were placed just a little higher on the center stack. The whole C1 Euro Focus chassis not selling here, blows my mind, but these are things I have absolutely NO control over. My whole thing is, Ford won't sink more money that is necessary into a car, that has really no competition. If the Mustang wasn't as good as it is, Car & Driver shouldn't have named it to their "10 Best List". A list that is 70% foreign.

About the next Mustang, When the Challenger comes out (and its been stated it will only be a 6.1, 6-speed auto, expensive, and in limited #'s like the Shelby, see Letters in new April Road & Track), and the Camaro (won't be out before 2010), the new 2009 Mustang will be out, and by then, I bet we will see a vastly changed, and improved car, with an IRS, and 6-speed, and more HP, and more creature comforts.

To the few of you out there (Max2000jp, B.C, Jack Frost), I apologize for having a positive attitude towards the brand I like. I choose to sell these cars for a living (I love my job), and it wouldn't be a good thing to have a bad-hiney attitude towards the vehicles you sell. It's always good to think positive, last time I checked. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/headscratch.gif[/img]