More speculation
2/26/06, 01:33 AM
#81
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hiznherponies @ February 25, 2006, 11:59 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
not trying to argue with you either, and I apologize for grouping you with the other naysayers here. this thread was started for speculation on the '09 'stang and it has gone to a place nowhere near that, so lets just drop all of this and agree that everyone has differing opinions of what our pony should be from the factory and what it should be after we start messing with it!!! John
[/b][/quote]
No worries. I think all of us can agree that we love the Stang. Some are great with it as it is...and some of us would have liked a few extra things on it.
The good news is, with this platform and the promise of SE models coming out, we may ALL get what we want over the next few years anyway. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banana.gif[/img]
Personally, nobody wants to see American automakers fully competitive with imports more than me. When I see cars like the Stang...and the new Challenger...and the new Camaro - it gets the ole blood pumping! Japanese cars have great quality and refinement, but no soul, IMHO. Only the Americans and Europeans have that kind of heritage to borrow from.
I look forward to the day when our levels of refinement and quality fully match the imports - with no compromises (the Edge looks to be heading that way)...and then the naysayers will have to eat their words. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]
But I do think that debate is healthy - and I think it's important for enthusiasts like ourselves to have this debate from time to time, or we risk falling into complacency like the domestic automakers did during the 1970s when the Japanese began sneaking up on them.
not trying to argue with you either, and I apologize for grouping you with the other naysayers here. this thread was started for speculation on the '09 'stang and it has gone to a place nowhere near that, so lets just drop all of this and agree that everyone has differing opinions of what our pony should be from the factory and what it should be after we start messing with it!!! John
[/b][/quote]
No worries. I think all of us can agree that we love the Stang. Some are great with it as it is...and some of us would have liked a few extra things on it.
The good news is, with this platform and the promise of SE models coming out, we may ALL get what we want over the next few years anyway. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banana.gif[/img]
Personally, nobody wants to see American automakers fully competitive with imports more than me. When I see cars like the Stang...and the new Challenger...and the new Camaro - it gets the ole blood pumping! Japanese cars have great quality and refinement, but no soul, IMHO. Only the Americans and Europeans have that kind of heritage to borrow from.
I look forward to the day when our levels of refinement and quality fully match the imports - with no compromises (the Edge looks to be heading that way)...and then the naysayers will have to eat their words. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]
But I do think that debate is healthy - and I think it's important for enthusiasts like ourselves to have this debate from time to time, or we risk falling into complacency like the domestic automakers did during the 1970s when the Japanese began sneaking up on them.
2/26/06, 05:30 AM
#82
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As I said before, it's still simply profit, you're just pulling out excuses now. It doesn't matter if the money is made globally, it's still money isn't it? It will still keep Ford going, the money can be used to make domestic products.
2/26/06, 08:15 AM
#83
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(instigator311 @ February 26, 2006, 7:33 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
As I said before, it's still simply profit, you're just pulling out excuses now. It doesn't matter if the money is made globally, it's still money isn't it? It will still keep Ford going, the money can be used to make domestic products.
[/b][/quote]
I agree, theres back in 1990s when Ford was making money hand over fist in North America, Ford Of Europe was in big trouble and was kept afloat becauce of the Profits made in the US. Now the oppsite is true. Be thankful that Ford isnt GM, who is very dependant on its NA profits, since about 70% of its total profits come from just that Market.
As I said before, it's still simply profit, you're just pulling out excuses now. It doesn't matter if the money is made globally, it's still money isn't it? It will still keep Ford going, the money can be used to make domestic products.
[/b][/quote]
I agree, theres back in 1990s when Ford was making money hand over fist in North America, Ford Of Europe was in big trouble and was kept afloat becauce of the Profits made in the US. Now the oppsite is true. Be thankful that Ford isnt GM, who is very dependant on its NA profits, since about 70% of its total profits come from just that Market.
2/26/06, 05:08 PM
#84
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(instigator311 @ February 26, 2006, 4:33 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
As I said before, it's still simply profit, you're just pulling out excuses now. It doesn't matter if the money is made globally, it's still money isn't it? It will still keep Ford going, the money can be used to make domestic products.
[/b][/quote]
It doesn't work that way. The North American operation is crucial to the company's survival. And it must stand alone as a revenue generator or it could take the whole ship down with it.
We were talking about domestic products and domestic sales. Don't obfuscate and change the parameters of the discussion because your argument is flawed. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nono.gif[/img]
If you wanna talk about Ford in Europe and their operation and profits, then we need to talk about their levels of manufacturing quality, too; which is how this whole conversation started, remember? Isn't it interesting that Ford vehicles - like the Focus ST - have much better overall fit and finish than Fords in North America, and that Ford in Europe is also quite profitable (in fact it's the number one selling brand in the UK!). Go figure. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img]
As I said before, it's still simply profit, you're just pulling out excuses now. It doesn't matter if the money is made globally, it's still money isn't it? It will still keep Ford going, the money can be used to make domestic products.
[/b][/quote]
It doesn't work that way. The North American operation is crucial to the company's survival. And it must stand alone as a revenue generator or it could take the whole ship down with it.
We were talking about domestic products and domestic sales. Don't obfuscate and change the parameters of the discussion because your argument is flawed. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nono.gif[/img]
If you wanna talk about Ford in Europe and their operation and profits, then we need to talk about their levels of manufacturing quality, too; which is how this whole conversation started, remember? Isn't it interesting that Ford vehicles - like the Focus ST - have much better overall fit and finish than Fords in North America, and that Ford in Europe is also quite profitable (in fact it's the number one selling brand in the UK!). Go figure. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img]
2/26/06, 05:41 PM
#85
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I've never seen a Focus ST myself, so I don't know about the overall fit and finsh. I've seen pictures on the internet though. The ST doesn't look all that great to me. BC Shelby, where do you get the information that that car has such better fit and finish??? Just curious.
2/26/06, 06:04 PM
#86
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BC_Shelby @ February 26, 2006, 7:11 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
It doesn't work that way. The North American operation is crucial to the company's survival. And it must stand alone as a revenue generator or it could take the whole ship down with it.
We were talking about domestic products and domestic sales. Don't obfuscate and change the parameters of the discussion because your argument is flawed. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nono.gif[/img]
If you wanna talk about Ford in Europe and their operation and profits, then we need to talk about their levels of manufacturing quality, too; which is how this whole conversation started, remember? Isn't it interesting that Ford vehicles - like the Focus ST - have much better overall fit and finish than Fords in North America, and that Ford in Europe is also quite profitable (in fact it's the number one selling brand in the UK!). Go figure. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
The domestic thing I was arguing was who cares about whether foreign markets don't like the Mustang, it's built for America, and that import interiors are no better than Ford's now. And if you look back to the begining of the thread, you'll see Ford's profit was discussed, that is what I was addressing. And I'll say yet again, profit is profit, it works where ever Ford wants it to work. Manufacturing quality was just one of the many topics being discussed in this thread, so don't try to change the subject due to your short comings. And correct me if I'm wrong, and I know I'm not, when I say that you failed to submit a strong and valid argument. All you did was try and argue what I already agreed with you on from the beginning, that Ford has declining sales, you did nothing to prove that they didn't make a profit. So until you quit your incredulous banter, I'm done with you.
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img]
It doesn't work that way. The North American operation is crucial to the company's survival. And it must stand alone as a revenue generator or it could take the whole ship down with it.
We were talking about domestic products and domestic sales. Don't obfuscate and change the parameters of the discussion because your argument is flawed. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nono.gif[/img]
If you wanna talk about Ford in Europe and their operation and profits, then we need to talk about their levels of manufacturing quality, too; which is how this whole conversation started, remember? Isn't it interesting that Ford vehicles - like the Focus ST - have much better overall fit and finish than Fords in North America, and that Ford in Europe is also quite profitable (in fact it's the number one selling brand in the UK!). Go figure. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
The domestic thing I was arguing was who cares about whether foreign markets don't like the Mustang, it's built for America, and that import interiors are no better than Ford's now. And if you look back to the begining of the thread, you'll see Ford's profit was discussed, that is what I was addressing. And I'll say yet again, profit is profit, it works where ever Ford wants it to work. Manufacturing quality was just one of the many topics being discussed in this thread, so don't try to change the subject due to your short comings. And correct me if I'm wrong, and I know I'm not, when I say that you failed to submit a strong and valid argument. All you did was try and argue what I already agreed with you on from the beginning, that Ford has declining sales, you did nothing to prove that they didn't make a profit. So until you quit your incredulous banter, I'm done with you.
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img]
2/27/06, 11:25 AM
#88
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Route 66 @ February 26, 2006, 7:44 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I've never seen a Focus ST myself, so I don't know about the overall fit and finsh. I've seen pictures on the internet though. The ST doesn't look all that great to me. BC Shelby, where do you get the information that that car has such better fit and finish??? Just curious.
[/b][/quote]
I have a '03 Focus ZX5 in addition to my '05 Mustang GT...and somewhere between the two is my almost perfect car.
It's amazing how smooth and slick the 5 speed is on the Focus...including the clutch action. It's like melted butter. The 5 speed on the Mustang, by comparison, as I've already said is like a box of rocks. Notchy, imprecise...and the clutch feels like something out of a 1970's car. And no, it's not just my car as somebody suggested earlier. It's every current gen Mustang I've driven.
The brakes on the focus give real good feed back...you can almost feel the road in the pedal like on any proper driver's car. However, the brakes on the Mustang are positively wooden and vague.
The focus just glides over uneven pavement and feels like it wants to be cornered hard. The mustang, with the solid rear axle...feels unrefined and jarring.
And there, my friends, is my perfect car: the 300 hp engine and styling of a Mustang with a smooth and slick gear box, brakes with great feedback and finally, an independet rear-suspension.
I can't believe adding these features to the Mustang would have added so much to the price that it would've sold any less than it did last year.
I've never seen a Focus ST myself, so I don't know about the overall fit and finsh. I've seen pictures on the internet though. The ST doesn't look all that great to me. BC Shelby, where do you get the information that that car has such better fit and finish??? Just curious.
[/b][/quote]
I have a '03 Focus ZX5 in addition to my '05 Mustang GT...and somewhere between the two is my almost perfect car.
It's amazing how smooth and slick the 5 speed is on the Focus...including the clutch action. It's like melted butter. The 5 speed on the Mustang, by comparison, as I've already said is like a box of rocks. Notchy, imprecise...and the clutch feels like something out of a 1970's car. And no, it's not just my car as somebody suggested earlier. It's every current gen Mustang I've driven.
The brakes on the focus give real good feed back...you can almost feel the road in the pedal like on any proper driver's car. However, the brakes on the Mustang are positively wooden and vague.
The focus just glides over uneven pavement and feels like it wants to be cornered hard. The mustang, with the solid rear axle...feels unrefined and jarring.
And there, my friends, is my perfect car: the 300 hp engine and styling of a Mustang with a smooth and slick gear box, brakes with great feedback and finally, an independet rear-suspension.
I can't believe adding these features to the Mustang would have added so much to the price that it would've sold any less than it did last year.
2/27/06, 11:48 AM
#89
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jack Frost @ February 27, 2006, 10:28 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I can't believe adding these features to the Mustang would have added so much to the price that it would've sold any less than it did last year.
[/b][/quote]
They wouldn't have. But Ford has a perception that most Mustang buyers couldn't care less about refinement. And, frankly, looking at some of the comments on this board, I think they may be right.
It's just too bad they're catering to a shrinking minority in the grand scheme.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Route 66 @ February 26, 2006, 4:44 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I've never seen a Focus ST myself, so I don't know about the overall fit and finsh. I've seen pictures on the internet though. The ST doesn't look all that great to me. BC Shelby, where do you get the information that that car has such better fit and finish??? Just curious.
[/b][/quote]
Because I've seen the car in person in London. The interior of the Focus ST is almost on par with Audi.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(instigator311 @ February 26, 2006, 5:07 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I'm done with you.
[/b][/quote]
'Bout time. Everytime you reply, your remarks become more and more fallacious. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img]
I can't believe adding these features to the Mustang would have added so much to the price that it would've sold any less than it did last year.
[/b][/quote]
They wouldn't have. But Ford has a perception that most Mustang buyers couldn't care less about refinement. And, frankly, looking at some of the comments on this board, I think they may be right.
It's just too bad they're catering to a shrinking minority in the grand scheme.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Route 66 @ February 26, 2006, 4:44 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I've never seen a Focus ST myself, so I don't know about the overall fit and finsh. I've seen pictures on the internet though. The ST doesn't look all that great to me. BC Shelby, where do you get the information that that car has such better fit and finish??? Just curious.
[/b][/quote]
Because I've seen the car in person in London. The interior of the Focus ST is almost on par with Audi.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(instigator311 @ February 26, 2006, 5:07 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I'm done with you.
[/b][/quote]
'Bout time. Everytime you reply, your remarks become more and more fallacious. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img]
2/27/06, 01:47 PM
#90
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In my opinion, the S197 Mustang is one of the most stunning cars I've ever seen, especially considering the base price. People are disappointed that Ford has cheapend the car in many ways to keep the price low, and the buyers today expect a higher quality car regardless of the price. I think the Mustang would have to cost about $4k more to fix its shortcomings, but many buyers would buy another car before they pay the difference. Ford's trump card is there is no current competition in the V8-powered, rear wheel drive, 2-door car segment.
2/27/06, 02:30 PM
#91
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lodom @ February 27, 2006, 12:50 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
In my opinion, the S197 Mustang is one of the most stunning cars I've ever seen, especially considering the base price. People are disappointed that Ford has cheapend the car in many ways to keep the price low, and the buyers today expect a higher quality car regardless of the price. I think the Mustang would have to cost about $4k more to fix its shortcomings, but many buyers would buy another car before they pay the difference. Ford's trump card is there is no current competition in the V8-powered, rear wheel drive, 2-door car segment.
[/b][/quote]
All true. Though I do think with the addition of a little more refinement, the car would appeal to a broader demographic. I think an extra $2K or $3K would have improved the simple things, and still made the car within reach of most buyers. I mean, if you're buying the car with a four or five year loan - interest rates being what they are right now - that extra couple grand doesn't increase your monthly payments by much.
In my opinion, the S197 Mustang is one of the most stunning cars I've ever seen, especially considering the base price. People are disappointed that Ford has cheapend the car in many ways to keep the price low, and the buyers today expect a higher quality car regardless of the price. I think the Mustang would have to cost about $4k more to fix its shortcomings, but many buyers would buy another car before they pay the difference. Ford's trump card is there is no current competition in the V8-powered, rear wheel drive, 2-door car segment.
[/b][/quote]
All true. Though I do think with the addition of a little more refinement, the car would appeal to a broader demographic. I think an extra $2K or $3K would have improved the simple things, and still made the car within reach of most buyers. I mean, if you're buying the car with a four or five year loan - interest rates being what they are right now - that extra couple grand doesn't increase your monthly payments by much.
2/27/06, 04:15 PM
#92
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BC_Shelby @ February 27, 2006, 4:33 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
All true. Though I do think with the addition of a little more refinement, the car would appeal to a broader demographic. I think an extra $2K or $3K would have improved the simple things, and still made the car within reach of most buyers. I mean, if you're buying the car with a four or five year loan - interest rates being what they are right now - that extra couple grand doesn't increase your monthly payments by much.
[/b][/quote]
Actually it does. For every $1000 you finance, add roughly $20 per month. Works in reverse too; for every $1000 put down, your payment lowers roughly $20 per. This "rule of thumb" is based on a 5 year finance. For 4 years, its about $25 dollars. So if the car was $3,000 more, the payments would be about $60 more per month, give or take. Thats alot to some people.
All true. Though I do think with the addition of a little more refinement, the car would appeal to a broader demographic. I think an extra $2K or $3K would have improved the simple things, and still made the car within reach of most buyers. I mean, if you're buying the car with a four or five year loan - interest rates being what they are right now - that extra couple grand doesn't increase your monthly payments by much.
[/b][/quote]
Actually it does. For every $1000 you finance, add roughly $20 per month. Works in reverse too; for every $1000 put down, your payment lowers roughly $20 per. This "rule of thumb" is based on a 5 year finance. For 4 years, its about $25 dollars. So if the car was $3,000 more, the payments would be about $60 more per month, give or take. Thats alot to some people.
2/27/06, 04:48 PM
#93
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05fordgt, you never did post a response...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jack Frost @ February 23, 2006, 9:43 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I'd like to know your thoughts regarding why Ford is losing market share and rated as junk status by every bond rating agency out there.
I'm not trying to put you on the spot...rather, I'd like your geniune opinion.
[/b][/quote]
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jack Frost @ February 23, 2006, 9:43 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I'd like to know your thoughts regarding why Ford is losing market share and rated as junk status by every bond rating agency out there.
I'm not trying to put you on the spot...rather, I'd like your geniune opinion.
[/b][/quote]
2/27/06, 05:36 PM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jack Frost @ February 27, 2006, 6:51 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
05fordgt, you never did post a response...
[/b][/quote]
I didn't respond, because I didn't know the question was directed to me. I figured that many others have said similar things on here. Look, I'm not going to say that Ford isn't in trouble, they are, but they are working hard on getting out of it. The way to do that is product, product, product. The only thing that I had issues with is you coming on here and spewing hatred towards the new Mustang. I just wanted to add my $0.02. When it gets to the whole market share, a big part of that is because they went so long without a nice car to compete with the imports. The Taurus should have been killed years ago, not last 2005. With with the Fusion, they now have a nice car to compete with. The Mustang is a terrific car, that has been defended wisely on this forum by others who agree with me, that its a car that gives great, no, terrific "bang for the buck" performance. Are there flaws with the car, sure. Every car has them, no matter what brand it is. I can tell you this, and this is a fact! I enjoyed putting another 120 miles on my '06 GT this past weekend. The looks I got with this car (its Vista Blue with painted Shelby stripes on it, with a ducktail spoiler) are amazing. So many people stare, give thumbs up, and smile when they see me. I love my car. Lets we honest, when it comes to junk bond status, and financial things, GM is in FAR MORE hot water that Ford.
05fordgt, you never did post a response...
[/b][/quote]
I didn't respond, because I didn't know the question was directed to me. I figured that many others have said similar things on here. Look, I'm not going to say that Ford isn't in trouble, they are, but they are working hard on getting out of it. The way to do that is product, product, product. The only thing that I had issues with is you coming on here and spewing hatred towards the new Mustang. I just wanted to add my $0.02. When it gets to the whole market share, a big part of that is because they went so long without a nice car to compete with the imports. The Taurus should have been killed years ago, not last 2005. With with the Fusion, they now have a nice car to compete with. The Mustang is a terrific car, that has been defended wisely on this forum by others who agree with me, that its a car that gives great, no, terrific "bang for the buck" performance. Are there flaws with the car, sure. Every car has them, no matter what brand it is. I can tell you this, and this is a fact! I enjoyed putting another 120 miles on my '06 GT this past weekend. The looks I got with this car (its Vista Blue with painted Shelby stripes on it, with a ducktail spoiler) are amazing. So many people stare, give thumbs up, and smile when they see me. I love my car. Lets we honest, when it comes to junk bond status, and financial things, GM is in FAR MORE hot water that Ford.
2/28/06, 12:10 AM
#96
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lodom @ February 27, 2006, 2:50 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
In my opinion, the S197 Mustang is one of the most stunning cars I've ever seen, especially considering the base price. People are disappointed that Ford has cheapend the car in many ways to keep the price low, and the buyers today expect a higher quality car regardless of the price. I think the Mustang would have to cost about $4k more to fix its shortcomings, but many buyers would buy another car before they pay the difference. Ford's trump card is there is no current competition in the V8-powered, rear wheel drive, 2-door car segment.
[/b][/quote]
I agree it's a stunning car, but minor upgrades don't cost 4K. The cheap plastic could be upgraded very economically. A few other optional features would be nice too. Give me a telescoping wheel, heated seats, and HIDs. All are available technology that Ford could borrow from their numerous brands. I still think that Ford missed the boat by not offering a 6 speed manual and IRS. Dodge and Chrysler's upcoming muscle cars are going to shake up Ford IMO. Both had 6 speeds and an IRS, which are major selling points amongst gearheads. What really ticks me off about GM and Ford is looking at a company called Hyundai. Up until recently, they were known for low quality economical cars. Have any of you guys seen the new vehicles they just introduced? The interiors look like they belong in a Lexus with a Ford/GM price. Ford and GM have built mediocre cars for too long and American consumers won't accept that. Change is coming...
In my opinion, the S197 Mustang is one of the most stunning cars I've ever seen, especially considering the base price. People are disappointed that Ford has cheapend the car in many ways to keep the price low, and the buyers today expect a higher quality car regardless of the price. I think the Mustang would have to cost about $4k more to fix its shortcomings, but many buyers would buy another car before they pay the difference. Ford's trump card is there is no current competition in the V8-powered, rear wheel drive, 2-door car segment.
[/b][/quote]
I agree it's a stunning car, but minor upgrades don't cost 4K. The cheap plastic could be upgraded very economically. A few other optional features would be nice too. Give me a telescoping wheel, heated seats, and HIDs. All are available technology that Ford could borrow from their numerous brands. I still think that Ford missed the boat by not offering a 6 speed manual and IRS. Dodge and Chrysler's upcoming muscle cars are going to shake up Ford IMO. Both had 6 speeds and an IRS, which are major selling points amongst gearheads. What really ticks me off about GM and Ford is looking at a company called Hyundai. Up until recently, they were known for low quality economical cars. Have any of you guys seen the new vehicles they just introduced? The interiors look like they belong in a Lexus with a Ford/GM price. Ford and GM have built mediocre cars for too long and American consumers won't accept that. Change is coming...
2/28/06, 12:52 AM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(max2000jp @ February 27, 2006, 11:13 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I agree it's a stunning car, but minor upgrades don't cost 4K. The cheap plastic could be upgraded very economically. A few other optional features would be nice too. Give me a telescoping wheel, heated seats, and HIDs. All are available technology that Ford could borrow from their numerous brands. I still think that Ford missed the boat by not offering a 6 speed manual and IRS. Dodge and Chrysler's upcoming muscle cars are going to shake up Ford IMO. Both had 6 speeds and an IRS, which are major selling points amongst gearheads. What really ticks me off about GM and Ford is looking at a company called Hyundai. Up until recently, they were known for low quality economical cars. Have any of you guys seen the new vehicles they just introduced? The interiors look like they belong in a Lexus with a Ford/GM price. Ford and GM have built mediocre cars for too long and American consumers won't accept that. Change is coming...
[/b][/quote]
Thank you for better elucidating the point I was trying to make.
The "It's good enough" build philosophy may appeal to the Mustang base, but that's not enough to pull the company out of its financial freefall and reclaim the domestic market share that ought to rightfully belong to it. When you're being overtaken by Hyundai in fit, finish and refinement, it's time to either get in the game, or close up shop and go home.
I agree it's a stunning car, but minor upgrades don't cost 4K. The cheap plastic could be upgraded very economically. A few other optional features would be nice too. Give me a telescoping wheel, heated seats, and HIDs. All are available technology that Ford could borrow from their numerous brands. I still think that Ford missed the boat by not offering a 6 speed manual and IRS. Dodge and Chrysler's upcoming muscle cars are going to shake up Ford IMO. Both had 6 speeds and an IRS, which are major selling points amongst gearheads. What really ticks me off about GM and Ford is looking at a company called Hyundai. Up until recently, they were known for low quality economical cars. Have any of you guys seen the new vehicles they just introduced? The interiors look like they belong in a Lexus with a Ford/GM price. Ford and GM have built mediocre cars for too long and American consumers won't accept that. Change is coming...
[/b][/quote]
Thank you for better elucidating the point I was trying to make.
The "It's good enough" build philosophy may appeal to the Mustang base, but that's not enough to pull the company out of its financial freefall and reclaim the domestic market share that ought to rightfully belong to it. When you're being overtaken by Hyundai in fit, finish and refinement, it's time to either get in the game, or close up shop and go home.
2/28/06, 06:18 AM
#98
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BC_Shelby @ February 28, 2006, 2:55 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Thank you for better elucidating the point I was trying to make.
The "It's good enough" build philosophy may appeal to the Mustang base, but that's not enough to pull the company out of its financial freefall and reclaim the domestic market share that ought to rightfully belong to it. When you're being overtaken by Hyundai in fit, finish and refinement, it's time to either get in the game, or close up shop and go home.
[/b][/quote]
But what your implying here is that ALL of Ford's products are "cheap" or whatever, when thats farther from the truth. I think you might have drank the koolaid sort to speak, since it seems like that your from the train of thought that the Domestic automakers CANNOT change, even thought they have made huge strides in quaitly and fit and finish. I haven't been impressed by Japanese cars I've been in and often ask myself, whats so great about them? I think alot of people have blinders on and are brainwashed into thinking Domestic cars suck.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BC_Shelby @ February 28, 2006, 2:55 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Thank you for better elucidating the point I was trying to make.
The "It's good enough" build philosophy may appeal to the Mustang base, but that's not enough to pull the company out of its financial freefall and reclaim the domestic market share that ought to rightfully belong to it. When you're being overtaken by Hyundai in fit, finish and refinement, it's time to either get in the game, or close up shop and go home.
[/b][/quote]
But what your implying here is that ALL of Ford's products are "cheap" or whatever, when thats farther from the truth. I think you might have drank the koolaid sort to speak, since it seems like that your from the train of thought that the Domestic automakers CANNOT change, even thought they have made huge strides in quaitly and fit and finish. I haven't been impressed by Japanese cars I've been in and often ask myself, whats so great about them? I think alot of people have blinders on and are brainwashed into thinking Domestic cars suck.
Thank you for better elucidating the point I was trying to make.
The "It's good enough" build philosophy may appeal to the Mustang base, but that's not enough to pull the company out of its financial freefall and reclaim the domestic market share that ought to rightfully belong to it. When you're being overtaken by Hyundai in fit, finish and refinement, it's time to either get in the game, or close up shop and go home.
[/b][/quote]
But what your implying here is that ALL of Ford's products are "cheap" or whatever, when thats farther from the truth. I think you might have drank the koolaid sort to speak, since it seems like that your from the train of thought that the Domestic automakers CANNOT change, even thought they have made huge strides in quaitly and fit and finish. I haven't been impressed by Japanese cars I've been in and often ask myself, whats so great about them? I think alot of people have blinders on and are brainwashed into thinking Domestic cars suck.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BC_Shelby @ February 28, 2006, 2:55 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Thank you for better elucidating the point I was trying to make.
The "It's good enough" build philosophy may appeal to the Mustang base, but that's not enough to pull the company out of its financial freefall and reclaim the domestic market share that ought to rightfully belong to it. When you're being overtaken by Hyundai in fit, finish and refinement, it's time to either get in the game, or close up shop and go home.
[/b][/quote]
But what your implying here is that ALL of Ford's products are "cheap" or whatever, when thats farther from the truth. I think you might have drank the koolaid sort to speak, since it seems like that your from the train of thought that the Domestic automakers CANNOT change, even thought they have made huge strides in quaitly and fit and finish. I haven't been impressed by Japanese cars I've been in and often ask myself, whats so great about them? I think alot of people have blinders on and are brainwashed into thinking Domestic cars suck.
2/28/06, 09:24 AM
#99
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GT98 @ February 28, 2006, 8:21 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I haven't been impressed by Japanese cars I've been in and often ask myself, whats so great about them? I think alot of people have blinders on and are brainwashed into thinking Domestic cars suck.
[/b][/quote]
What's so great about them?
Watch these episodes side by side:
Ford Mustang GT:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=63...2824&q=top+gear
Mazda RX8
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=35...2831&q=top+gear
Two reviews by the same tv show: Top Gear, the best automotive show bar none. Note that they didn't even bother taking the Mustang on their test track.
And again, my dream car would consist of the design and engine of the Mustang GT, coupled to the handling sophistication and refinement of the RX8.
Such a car, even at the price of the RX8...would be a *world wide* sales phenomenon.
It's the car Ford should've built.
I haven't been impressed by Japanese cars I've been in and often ask myself, whats so great about them? I think alot of people have blinders on and are brainwashed into thinking Domestic cars suck.
[/b][/quote]
What's so great about them?
Watch these episodes side by side:
Ford Mustang GT:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=63...2824&q=top+gear
Mazda RX8
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=35...2831&q=top+gear
Two reviews by the same tv show: Top Gear, the best automotive show bar none. Note that they didn't even bother taking the Mustang on their test track.
And again, my dream car would consist of the design and engine of the Mustang GT, coupled to the handling sophistication and refinement of the RX8.
Such a car, even at the price of the RX8...would be a *world wide* sales phenomenon.
It's the car Ford should've built.
2/28/06, 09:32 AM
#100
Shelby GT500 Member
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GT98 @ February 28, 2006, 7:21 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
But what your implying here is that ALL of Ford's products are "cheap" or whatever, when thats farther from the truth. I think you might have drank the koolaid sort to speak, since it seems like that your from the train of thought that the Domestic automakers CANNOT change, even thought they have made huge strides in quaitly and fit and finish. I haven't been impressed by Japanese cars I've been in and often ask myself, whats so great about them? I think alot of people have blinders on and are brainwashed into thinking Domestic cars suck.
[/b][/quote]
Ford is well know for using cheap materials and taking shortcuts interior wise. Go out and look at Hondas and Toyotas. Compare the competition to the Fusion or 500, even the Focus. Not even a contest. Sadly, Ford's nicest interiors are on their trucks. People aren't brainwashed, rather have become more eductated consumers. They will not buy inferior products anymore, thus GM and Ford needs to change or sink.
But what your implying here is that ALL of Ford's products are "cheap" or whatever, when thats farther from the truth. I think you might have drank the koolaid sort to speak, since it seems like that your from the train of thought that the Domestic automakers CANNOT change, even thought they have made huge strides in quaitly and fit and finish. I haven't been impressed by Japanese cars I've been in and often ask myself, whats so great about them? I think alot of people have blinders on and are brainwashed into thinking Domestic cars suck.
[/b][/quote]
Ford is well know for using cheap materials and taking shortcuts interior wise. Go out and look at Hondas and Toyotas. Compare the competition to the Fusion or 500, even the Focus. Not even a contest. Sadly, Ford's nicest interiors are on their trucks. People aren't brainwashed, rather have become more eductated consumers. They will not buy inferior products anymore, thus GM and Ford needs to change or sink.