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Since a boost a pump is required when running E85, the fuel pump life is cut short die to the higher amps. Also some are now reporting premature timing chain guide wear from running E85.
I can see if your car is going to be a weekend warrior, but for a DD is not worth the hassle.
Just a guess but I would think it’s from oil dilution when the engine is cold. I know we would experience that in our methanol engines during warm up and if there were any extended idle periods. Most of the methanol would evaporate away after the engine/oil would warm up and boil it off but some remained. We would change the oil after every race night.
I reread my post after submitting it and thought it was going to elicit a negative response. I didn’t have time to change it so I left it be. It wasn’t my intension to sound confrontational or like a jack@ss. I should have edited it, time or not. Sorry for that.
As for the ethanol stoich, you are correct, it is 9.0:1. I was working from memory which is always a dangerous thing, at least for me. Don’t know where 7.3 came from other than dead lean methanol.
I have a fuel science book at home somewhere (Which I’m still searching for) that describes the SE formula I used. I did a quick google search and found this which uses the same formula.
These were the sources for my information yesterday.
If you would please, tell me where either the calculations, the formula or the base data I’m using are going astray.
John
The thing that I think has been fueling our differences (pun intended) is the use of the term "specific energy" which is also misused in that article about nitro. Specific energy is the measure of energy per unit mass (weight). Energy density is the measure of energy per unit volume. Neither one has anything to do with air/fuel ratio. The term you're looking for is "heat of combustion" which is a measure of the amount of energy released when a fuel is burned in air. It is used primarily to compare the efficiency of a furnace or engine against a theoretical standard. The air/fuel ratio is critical for that measurement. However, the real measure of power capability in an engine is the change in free enthalpy which is a measure of the mechanical work potential of an air/fuel mixture (as opposed to just the thermal energy potential - after all, we're not building a steam boiler). This measure is not static for any given fuel and varies based on engine design. That's where you can see the big gains from one of the alcohol based fuels such as ethanol or methanol. An engine designed to take advantage of the properties of the fuel can boost performance into ranges where a gasoline engine would blow apart.
I think we're basically saying the same thing and just getting tied up in definitions. Ethanol can be used to fuel appropriately designed (or modified) engines to produce enormous amounts of power. But using it in an ordinary gasoline engine will usually be counterproductive because the engine is not designed to take advantage of the different characteristics of an alcohol based fuel.
The thing that I think has been fueling our differences (pun intended) is the use of the term "specific energy" which is also misused in that article about nitro. Specific energy is the measure of energy per unit mass (weight). Energy density is the measure of energy per unit volume. Neither one has anything to do with air/fuel ratio. The term you're looking for is "heat of combustion" which is a measure of the amount of energy released when a fuel is burned in air. It is used primarily to compare the efficiency of a furnace or engine against a theoretical standard. The air/fuel ratio is critical for that measurement. However, the real measure of power capability in an engine is the change in free enthalpy which is a measure of the mechanical work potential of an air/fuel mixture (as opposed to just the thermal energy potential - after all, we're not building a steam boiler). This measure is not static for any given fuel and varies based on engine design. That's where you can see the big gains from one of the alcohol based fuels such as ethanol or methanol. An engine designed to take advantage of the properties of the fuel can boost performance into ranges where a gasoline engine would blow apart.
I think we're basically saying the same thing and just getting tied up in definitions. Ethanol can be used to fuel appropriately designed (or modified) engines to produce enormous amounts of power. But using it in an ordinary gasoline engine will usually be counterproductive because the engine is not designed to take advantage of the different characteristics of an alcohol based fuel.
Thank you for the very understandable explanation. After more reading, I agree the calculations in the article do not arrive at SE. For them to suggest it does is misleading at best. It does however seem to be an effective way to compare the heat values of fuels in an a one for one way which is useable data.
Thanks again for your time, expertise and patience.
Wow...a disagreement that ended peacefully on here. It's like an albino post.
It's rarely if ever about a fight with me. What does that ever prove...especially on a chat board? I'm here to learn and to give good info. If my info is not correct and pointed out in a respectful manner I'm open to what's offered. In this case it was, I looked into what he had to say and he was correct. I learned something I didn't know before, but more importantly, misinformation that I was led to believe was correct actually was not and I now have the right p00p.
Back on topic, I agree with those who said run alternative fuels if it’s a dedicated race car. For street driven daily drivers, stick with pump gas and optimize as best you can for it. Let’s hope and pray the feds don’t mandate the proposed additional 5% ethanol be added to our gas. All that would do is toss our current calibrations out the window forcing us to remap to regain power. Fuel economy will drop even further. One of the biggest government rip-offs of the American public ever.
From everything I have seen on it, the car can handle E85 if you have the proper tune. If not it probably won't run very well. Not sure how much damage you can do.
What happens if u don’t have the proper tune? I put E85 in my mustang (completely stock) n 2 days of being in there my engine light came on.. i drove the car till it had 5 miles left to get rid of the E85 hopefully that did something but i did call ford i have a appointment set for them to check the engine but I’m just curious on the damage that could be done putting e85 in a car that wasn’t tune for it🤦🏽♂️
Might search Google to see what you can find. Lots out there, but I think you are fine. Sounds like it would have been better (maybe) to have added non-ethanol fuel to top off the tank to minimize the pure E85 running through you vital engine components.
5/6/15, 08:01 AM
