Dyno Time - Guess the Numbers
6/26/14, 01:48 PM
#21
Cobra R Member
Thread Starter
Mikey... that was the neat thing about JDM. Essentially, I or the dyno shop datalogs, then I send the info back to JDM and they tweak if necessary. And from my understanding, for that specific set of mods they are writing the tune for, they will tweak however many times necessary to "get it right". Ideally of course, if they're tunes are "spot on" or close to it, 1 revision should do it.
Some data information I can't do on my own... has to be on a dyno. So I won't truly know until I datalog at a dyno.
Did VMP request to the OP that he datalog? hmmm
Some data information I can't do on my own... has to be on a dyno. So I won't truly know until I datalog at a dyno.
Did VMP request to the OP that he datalog? hmmm
6/26/14, 01:48 PM
#22
Mach 1 Member
Well crap, my guess is 0/0.
That really sucks and I getting ready to go back over my datalogs. What did your measured afr run, should average mid .80's.
Keep us posted and I'm sure your motor is fine.
That really sucks and I getting ready to go back over my datalogs. What did your measured afr run, should average mid .80's.
Keep us posted and I'm sure your motor is fine.
6/26/14, 01:52 PM
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Mikey... that was the neat thing about JDM. Essentially, I or the dyno shop datalogs, then I send the info back to JDM and they tweak if necessary. And from my understanding, for that specific set of mods they are writing the tune for, they will tweak however many times necessary to "get it right". Ideally of course, if they're tunes are "spot on" or close to it, 1 revision should do it. Some data information I can't do on my own... has to be on a dyno. So I won't truly know until I datalog at a dyno. Did VMP request to the OP that he datalog? hmmm
6/26/14, 01:56 PM
#24
Cobra R Member
Thread Starter
If you have an SCT X3 or X4 and LiveLink, you can datalog more parameters than you would ever need... I was monitoring 19 different parameters, but tuners are basically adjusting fuel trim and timing... I would not want a "performance" tune that only needs one revision... Either the first revision has too much timing or not enough fuel, or maybe a combo of both OR the tuner has developed a very safe tune they know they don't have to adjust much. The latter is most likely the case, but then you're leaving performance on the table. At that point, your tune is just there to accommodate the mods you've added so you don't grenade the motor, instead of trying to safely make the most of them.
6/26/14, 01:58 PM
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6/26/14, 02:03 PM
#26
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6/26/14, 02:04 PM
#27
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If you have an SCT X3 or X4 and LiveLink, you can datalog more parameters than you would ever need... I was monitoring 19 different parameters, but tuners are basically adjusting fuel trim and timing... I would not want a "performance" tune that only needs one revision... Either the first revision has too much timing or not enough fuel, or maybe a combo of both OR the tuner has developed a very safe tune they know they don't have to adjust much. The latter is most likely the case, but then you're leaving performance on the table. At that point, your tune is just there to accommodate the mods you've added so you don't grenade the motor, instead of trying to safely make the most of them.
Gabe, if you're there can you chime in?
I will do this too. Pretty easy to set everything up? Just plug, play, done?
6/26/14, 02:12 PM
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6/26/14, 02:17 PM
#29
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Mikey, as for one revision, I can't speak for JDM, but from my talk with them, they've done my exact set up before for other mustangs with everything the same, so I assume they have a "similar to" they can do, and go from there. From my recollection, the only difference is that I am running a 3.6 instead of a 3.8 pulley (theirs). So that's why I think, they are thinking 1 revision. Wouldn't that be a good thing? Heck Gabe's was no revision I think. Gabe, if you're there can you chime in?
6/26/14, 02:40 PM
#30
Mach 1 Member
I believe the measured afr pid is really lambda.
6/26/14, 02:41 PM
#31
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Mikey, as for one revision, I can't speak for JDM, but from my talk with them, they've done my exact set up before for other mustangs with everything the same, so I assume they have a "similar to" they can do, and go from there. From my recollection, the only difference is that I am running a 3.6 instead of a 3.8 pulley (theirs). So that's why I think, they are thinking 1 revision. Wouldn't that be a good thing? Heck Gabe's was no revision I think.
Gabe, if you're there can you chime in?
Gabe, if you're there can you chime in?
The only revision I've needed was when I went to the smaller pulley.
They sent me another tune with a bit of timing taken out of it, since "we prefer to make power with boost, not timing" because of the high compression design of the engine.
I've been extremely happy with my JDM tune, and the whole experience of dealing with Nick @ JDM
6/27/14, 06:43 AM
#32
Mach 1 Member
Lambda is referring to the difference (delta) between an A/F ratio that gives most heat (Referred to as the Stoichiometric ratio) and the one that is actually being delivered to the engine as a decimal number rather than a ratio. Example: Stoich for most pump gas is around 14.7:1 A/F (14.7 parts air to 1 part fuel). To calculate Lambda the stoich is considered “1”. Then intuitively A/F mixtures richer than stoich have Lambda’s less than one and those leaner, greater than one. In this case 14.7 X .87 = 12.79 A/F actually being delivered to the engine.I’m not trying to be a Mr. Smartypants but a lot of people don’t understand this stuff and come to sites like this to learn. Giving them the background is often very helpful!
Have a good one,
John
6/27/14, 06:49 AM
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Lambda is referring to the difference (delta) between an A/F ratio that gives most heat (Referred to as the Stoichiometric ratio) and the one that is actually being delivered to the engine as a decimal number rather than a ratio. Example: Stoich for most pump gas is around 14.7:1 A/F (14.7 parts air to 1 part fuel). To calculate Lambda the stoich is considered “1”. Then intuitively A/F mixtures richer than stoich have Lambda’s less than one and those leaner, greater than one. In this case 14.7 X .87 = 12.79 A/F actually being delivered to the engine. I’m not trying to be a Mr. Smartypants but a lot of people don’t understand this stuff and come to sites like this to learn. Giving them the background is often very helpful! Have a good one, John
6/27/14, 07:02 AM
#34
Mach 1 Member
From VMP,
Air/Fuel.**If you read Internet forums you'll get dozens of different opinions on what it optimal, dangerous or will wash down your cylinder walls. For simplicity's sake, let's look at one car and the real story. *
2011 and new Mustangs feature a PCM that uses two wideband O2 sensors to accurately measure and correct Lambda under all operating conditions. *Enthusiasts know this value as "Air to fuel ratio". *During "dynoing" sessions a second O2 sensor may be placed in the tailpipe to measure A/F. *WITHOUT PROPER CALIBRATION THIS SENSOR WILL NOT READ ACCURATELY NOR THE SAME AS THE WIDEBAND 02s BUILT IN TO THE CAR. *This discrepancy will make the tune*appear*to be "lean" when it's not actually so.*
Around 2010 Ford began calibrating the factory systems for E10 (10% ethanol) fuel. *The Stoichiometric value for E10 is lower than that of ethanol -free gasoline. *E10's value is 14.08 whereas pure premium grade gasoline is 14.64. *So, the factory computer systems use 14.08 as their target and any wideband measurements reflect this. *If you measure A/F with an aftermarket wideband and do not calibrate it for E10 the values will be skewed to look leaner than actual. *
Air/Fuel.**If you read Internet forums you'll get dozens of different opinions on what it optimal, dangerous or will wash down your cylinder walls. For simplicity's sake, let's look at one car and the real story. *
2011 and new Mustangs feature a PCM that uses two wideband O2 sensors to accurately measure and correct Lambda under all operating conditions. *Enthusiasts know this value as "Air to fuel ratio". *During "dynoing" sessions a second O2 sensor may be placed in the tailpipe to measure A/F. *WITHOUT PROPER CALIBRATION THIS SENSOR WILL NOT READ ACCURATELY NOR THE SAME AS THE WIDEBAND 02s BUILT IN TO THE CAR. *This discrepancy will make the tune*appear*to be "lean" when it's not actually so.*
Around 2010 Ford began calibrating the factory systems for E10 (10% ethanol) fuel. *The Stoichiometric value for E10 is lower than that of ethanol -free gasoline. *E10's value is 14.08 whereas pure premium grade gasoline is 14.64. *So, the factory computer systems use 14.08 as their target and any wideband measurements reflect this. *If you measure A/F with an aftermarket wideband and do not calibrate it for E10 the values will be skewed to look leaner than actual. *
6/27/14, 07:09 AM
#35
Mach 1 Member
From VMP,
Air/Fuel.**If you read Internet forums you'll get dozens of different opinions on what it optimal, dangerous or will wash down your cylinder walls. For simplicity's sake, let's look at one car and the real story. *
2011 and new Mustangs feature a PCM that uses two wideband O2 sensors to accurately measure and correct Lambda under all operating conditions. *Enthusiasts know this value as "Air to fuel ratio". *During "dynoing" sessions a second O2 sensor may be placed in the tailpipe to measure A/F. *WITHOUT PROPER CALIBRATION THIS SENSOR WILL NOT READ ACCURATELY NOR THE SAME AS THE WIDEBAND 02s BUILT IN TO THE CAR. *This discrepancy will make the tune*appear*to be "lean" when it's not actually so.*
Around 2010 Ford began calibrating the factory systems for E10 (10% ethanol) fuel. *The Stoichiometric value for E10 is lower than that of ethanol -free gasoline. *E10's value is 14.08 whereas pure premium grade gasoline is 14.64. *So, the factory computer systems use 14.08 as their target and any wideband measurements reflect this. *If you measure A/F with an aftermarket wideband and do not calibrate it for E10 the values will be skewed to look leaner than actual. *
Air/Fuel.**If you read Internet forums you'll get dozens of different opinions on what it optimal, dangerous or will wash down your cylinder walls. For simplicity's sake, let's look at one car and the real story. *
2011 and new Mustangs feature a PCM that uses two wideband O2 sensors to accurately measure and correct Lambda under all operating conditions. *Enthusiasts know this value as "Air to fuel ratio". *During "dynoing" sessions a second O2 sensor may be placed in the tailpipe to measure A/F. *WITHOUT PROPER CALIBRATION THIS SENSOR WILL NOT READ ACCURATELY NOR THE SAME AS THE WIDEBAND 02s BUILT IN TO THE CAR. *This discrepancy will make the tune*appear*to be "lean" when it's not actually so.*
Around 2010 Ford began calibrating the factory systems for E10 (10% ethanol) fuel. *The Stoichiometric value for E10 is lower than that of ethanol -free gasoline. *E10's value is 14.08 whereas pure premium grade gasoline is 14.64. *So, the factory computer systems use 14.08 as their target and any wideband measurements reflect this. *If you measure A/F with an aftermarket wideband and do not calibrate it for E10 the values will be skewed to look leaner than actual. *
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