Borla issues, possibly switching to Corsas... Need input pls
3/26/14, 12:16 PM
#61
Mach 1 Member
John thanks for this a great read. I feel 100 times smarter already just reading it over the last few minutes. Given that, it's still an issue with Borla themselves. It sounds like they did not use the right materials nor follow the right practices, is that correct? The way a consumer drives his car shouldn't be a determinant of SCC events.
In addition, I doubt they use aircraft grade SS. That wouldn't be doing that if that were the case. Hmmmmm if they claim to use it, that's bad.
In addition, I doubt they use aircraft grade SS. That wouldn't be doing that if that were the case. Hmmmmm if they claim to use it, that's bad.
Borla undoubtedly did the best they can within the confines of economy. Annealing is a costly and time consuming process and may not even be feasible for a fully built up muffler (Its internal wadding may preclude the operation since the parts are taken to very high temperatures for a period of time). I would guess they know if they have issues based on return rates. Heck, you might have the same issues with another brand if their muffs are made of the same material! Borla seems at face value to be a reputable company and doubt they are knowingly selling an inferior product.
John
3/26/14, 12:30 PM
#62
I Have No Life
Thread Starter
Exhaust systems operate in a widely varying, hellish environment. Overall you're correct, they should be made of materials that will last reasonable period of time even though that time will vary widely based on operational habits. For the most part 304 SST is not a bad choice. Certainly it’s leagues better than the carbon steel of old times but under certain circumstances it is susceptible to issues as well. I guess my point was, your habits may have created the perfect storm accelerating what I think is SCC. I don’t think you got a reasonable life out of them. Borla undoubtedly did the best they can within the confines of economy. Annealing is a costly and time consuming process and may not even be feasible for a fully built up muffler (Its internal wadding may preclude the operation since the parts are taken to very high temperatures for a period of time). I would guess they know if they have issues based on return rates. Heck, you might have the same issues with another brand if their muffs are made of the same material! Borla seems at face value to be a reputable company and doubt they are knowingly selling an inferior product. John
3/26/14, 02:20 PM
#64
Mach 1 Member
If it is SCC, modifying your mode of operation a bit may help avoid another premature failure from happening again if the new muffs are made of similar material. I would start by not starting the engine at all during the winter storage months unless you’re going to take the car out on the road and really get things completely heated up and dried out. We’ve spoken about that before I think.
3/26/14, 02:29 PM
#65
I Have No Life
Thread Starter
The failure mode on the Borla's may not be SCC. All I'm saying is based on experience in industrial applications with 304/316/316L, it looks suspicious to me. I’ve seen industrial instrumentation (Flow meters) with cross-sectional thicknesses in their weld areas that were installed in superheated steam applications fracture in a matter of months because the steam wasn’t clean. In most cases the customers were using municipal water for their boilers which is a gigantic no-no unless all the wetted materials are carbon steel or an exotic alloy like Hastelloy. Unlike superheated steam, we know that carbon steel in exhaust systems doesn’t work well for very long! A microscopic examination of the cracks will tell the story if Borla was to take it that far. Of course we will never know the answer so that part of the conversation is academic for us.
If it is SCC, modifying your mode of operation a bit may help avoid another premature failure from happening again if the new muffs are made of similar material. I would start by not starting the engine at all during the winter storage months unless you’re going to take the car out on the road and really get things completely heated up and dried out. We’ve spoken about that before I think.
If it is SCC, modifying your mode of operation a bit may help avoid another premature failure from happening again if the new muffs are made of similar material. I would start by not starting the engine at all during the winter storage months unless you’re going to take the car out on the road and really get things completely heated up and dried out. We’ve spoken about that before I think.
But anyways, back to the issue at hand. Though I agree that the method of use "may" have contributed to the issue of the weld cracks, there's no denying that they, Borla, need to address circumstances like this, and in fact, do pursue further analysis on the parts I will send back. On top of that, like I mentioned before, I have had prior toy cars, a Z with an invidia exhaust, a G with a stock exhaust, an RX7 with an HK exhaust, all of which I've always started 1x or 2x a month during winter, ran for 1/2 hour or more, and have had ZERO issues whatsoever. That's a combination of stock and aftermarket exhausts. Perhaps that methodology would prove to be "stressful" on the exhaust metals, but still, exhaust manufacturers BETTER account for that type of use. It's not like it's asking for a whole lot, because like I said above, the stock and aftermarket exhausts I've used before have had no issues. So the fact that the Borlas do have issues, leads me to believe in some internal issue with Borlas material or process.
Is that a fair statement?
Last edited by FromZto5; 3/26/14 at 02:37 PM.
3/26/14, 03:04 PM
#66
Mach 1 Member
Thanks for the insight John... fyi, I was up in your neck of the woods last weekend! Bloomington to be exact
But anyways, back to the issue at hand. Though I agree that the method of use "may" have contributed to the issue of the weld cracks, there's no denying that they, Borla, need to address circumstances like this, and in fact, do pursue further analysis on the parts I will send back. On top of that, like I mentioned before, I have had prior toy cars, a Z with an invidia exhaust, a G with a stock exhaust, an RX7 with an HK exhaust, all of which I've always started 1x or 2x a month during winter, ran for 1/2 hour or more, and have had ZERO issues whatsoever. That's a combination of stock and aftermarket exhausts. Perhaps that methodology would prove to be "stressful" on the exhaust metals, but still, exhaust manufacturers BETTER account for that type of use. It's not like it's asking for a whole lot, because like I said above, the stock and aftermarket exhausts I've used before have had no issues. So the fact that the Borlas do have issues, leads me to believe in some internal issue with Borlas material or process.
Is that a fair statement?
But anyways, back to the issue at hand. Though I agree that the method of use "may" have contributed to the issue of the weld cracks, there's no denying that they, Borla, need to address circumstances like this, and in fact, do pursue further analysis on the parts I will send back. On top of that, like I mentioned before, I have had prior toy cars, a Z with an invidia exhaust, a G with a stock exhaust, an RX7 with an HK exhaust, all of which I've always started 1x or 2x a month during winter, ran for 1/2 hour or more, and have had ZERO issues whatsoever. That's a combination of stock and aftermarket exhausts. Perhaps that methodology would prove to be "stressful" on the exhaust metals, but still, exhaust manufacturers BETTER account for that type of use. It's not like it's asking for a whole lot, because like I said above, the stock and aftermarket exhausts I've used before have had no issues. So the fact that the Borlas do have issues, leads me to believe in some internal issue with Borlas material or process.
Is that a fair statement?
Don't implicate me with Bloomington
I avoid that place like the plague. Fact is, if it's inside "The Loop" or even close to it, I avoid it. I can see 494 from my office window and it gives me the hives 
Gotta be 
in the head to live even close to it. Belle Plaine is 28 miles southwest of that and somedays that's to close to "The big city" for me. 
John
3/26/14, 03:20 PM
#67
I Have No Life
Thread Starter
Here's a picture for you guys... since this has all happened, I've been doing a LOT of research on Borla welds. Remember how I had a Nissan Z with an Invidia exhaust? Mind you, in the Z world, the Invidias were considered a "mid tier" quality exhaust. So take a look at these 3 pics, last 2 are my Borlas (cracked and semi cracked), other is Invidia. Which is more likely to fail? seeing these pics, makes me shake my head more and I'm disappointed even more.
3/26/14, 05:24 PM
#68
I have a Borla Cat-back on my 1998 Chevy 4x4 truck that has been on the truck since about Feb, 2003. This was a new system. I don't have any of the issues like what is posted above. Maybe the quality of their stuff was better back then. I also don't have a weep hole in the muffler. I would be unhappy about this as these systems are not cheap.
Wayne
Wayne
3/26/14, 09:56 PM
#69
I Have No Life
Thread Starter
I have a Borla Cat-back on my 1998 Chevy 4x4 truck that has been on the truck since about Feb, 2003. This was a new system. I don't have any of the issues like what is posted above. Maybe the quality of their stuff was better back then. I also don't have a weep hole in the muffler. I would be unhappy about this as these systems are not cheap. Wayne
3/27/14, 12:58 AM
#71
Bullitt Member
Here's a picture for you guys... since this has all happened, I've been doing a LOT of research on Borla welds. Remember how I had a Nissan Z with an Invidia exhaust? Mind you, in the Z world, the Invidias were considered a "mid tier" quality exhaust. So take a look at these 3 pics, last 2 are my Borlas (cracked and semi cracked), other is Invidia. Which is more likely to fail? seeing these pics, makes me shake my head more and I'm disappointed even more.
Still, you might be able to save the inferior welding job of the beloved Borlas through an annealing process as mentioned above. And, you have the necessary equipment to achieve this – a supercharger. Simply drive the car at maximum boost for several miles until the exhaust tips begin to glow a dark red, then quickly drive it into a lake. This quenching will realign the tubing molecules, softening the material which should help prevent future cracking. Then you just pull the car out of the lake, do a quick detail to remove the weeds and fish, and enjoy your improved aftermarket exhaust without further stress or concerns of weld failure. Easy! Just watch out for "the fuzz”.
Hey, maybe you could ask Borla to make an instruction pdf file for this process?
3/27/14, 05:17 AM
#73
I Have No Life
Thread Starter
Corsa vs. Borla exhaust on Mustang 5.0 (Coyote): Video Link: http://youtu.be/YMg-REH-fFI
The top picture shows precision welding performed by a robotic MIG welding machine with the components having been precisely held in a fixture. The other two pictures show “booger welds” performed by a drunken alien laying in the dirt who was blind in one eye and couldn’t see out of the other. Still, you might be able to save the inferior welding job of the beloved Borlas through an annealing process as mentioned above. And, you have the necessary equipment to achieve this – a supercharger. Simply drive the car at maximum boost for several miles until the exhaust tips begin to glow a dark red, then quickly drive it into a lake. This quenching will realign the tubing molecules, softening the material which should help prevent future cracking. Then you just pull the car out of the lake, do a quick detail to remove the weeds and fish, and enjoy your improved aftermarket exhaust without further stress or concerns of weld failure. Easy! Just watch out for "the fuzz”. Hey, maybe you could ask Borla to make an instruction pdf file for this process?
But how do you explain all the welds looking very similar between all 4 sets (3 new 1 old) that I currently have in my house right now? And also, how do you explain the 3 new sets that I have being "off" in fitment varying from 0.33" to almost an inch off???
My guess is, most of you have borlas made well... But something happened there lately. The warranty guy was even stating that the Tennessee facility was having issues with the jig setups and perhaps was getting the 11/12 and 13/14 setups mixed up. To me, that's a quality control issue.... And the fact that each variation "varies" as well is even weirder. Meaning, some off by 1/3" some by 1/2" some by 3/4". That's not good, man.
3/27/14, 06:41 AM
#76
I Have No Life
Thread Starter
a) Fitment
b) Sound
c) Quality
My Borla experience the last 2 weeks has left me concerned and phobic
Hellz Yeahz.....
3/27/14, 07:20 AM
#79
Bullitt Member
Here is another. Looks a little cleaner then the first pic I posted but nowhere near the pic of the Invidia exhaust.
The Invidia system has a perfect weld. You can see the metal turned a darker color from the heat penetration of the weld. Sure looks good for a middle of the road system.
The Invidia system has a perfect weld. You can see the metal turned a darker color from the heat penetration of the weld. Sure looks good for a middle of the road system.
Last edited by 88lx50; 3/27/14 at 07:21 AM.
3/27/14, 07:21 AM
#80
I Have No Life
Thread Starter
Jay my man! There you are. Thanks again a ton for your/Dan's support. Dan even helped me out with some spring information yesterday. Again, the way you guys value customer service, responsiveness, and just overall communication/relationship to the customer, is amongst the best that I've seen in the industry lately. Please keep up the great work. You guys deserve to be commended.
As for my video, you KNOW I will posting an indepth review, pics, AND videos (several) by this weekend. hehe. Details is my middle name
From what I understand, visuals of welds aren't the only way to tell if it's "good" or not. I mean may be it is, what do I know. But doesn't it have a lot to do with prep and temp? and the process by which they complete the weld? maybe material selection? hmmm...
Besides, if the FITMENT on the corsas are spot on, that's one battle I will NEVER have to worry about. Because since both have lifetime warranties, if mine crack EVERY year, I will be getting a new one EVERY year. At least I won't have to worry about fitment issues EVERY year. LOL.
As for my video, you KNOW I will posting an indepth review, pics, AND videos (several) by this weekend. hehe. Details is my middle name
Besides, if the FITMENT on the corsas are spot on, that's one battle I will NEVER have to worry about. Because since both have lifetime warranties, if mine crack EVERY year, I will be getting a new one EVERY year. At least I won't have to worry about fitment issues EVERY year. LOL.