AdvanceTrac Question
7/8/12, 02:28 PM
#41
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Think so?
Try this sometime. Run through a full tank of gas with TCS on and check your average milage at the end. Then, do the same with TCS turned off. I'll bet money that even on dry pavement you get better milage with TCS off.
You'll also get less rear brake wear with TCS turned off. You see, TCS applies the brakes not only when you spin the wheels, but also applies the brakes when it detects body lean. So, cornering at speed, even if you are not losing traction, it will apply the brakes to keep you from cornering harder. In order to override the drag you will step on your gas pedal harder, which will use more fuel, and will also increase brake wear.
Also, under straight line acceleration, the TCS will engage BEFORE the tires lose traction. If you start accelerating and then it feels like the car suddenly starts pulling harder once you reach 20MPH or so, that's not the engine at work, it's the TCS holding you back off the line even though you aren't spinning the tires.
Don't bother talking about how important the system is when you clearly don't understand how it works. It's a nanny for people who don't know how to drive and using it comes with a cost. Reduced performance, reduced fuel milage, and reduced brake life.
BTW, the last two cost you money.
Try this sometime. Run through a full tank of gas with TCS on and check your average milage at the end. Then, do the same with TCS turned off. I'll bet money that even on dry pavement you get better milage with TCS off.
You'll also get less rear brake wear with TCS turned off. You see, TCS applies the brakes not only when you spin the wheels, but also applies the brakes when it detects body lean. So, cornering at speed, even if you are not losing traction, it will apply the brakes to keep you from cornering harder. In order to override the drag you will step on your gas pedal harder, which will use more fuel, and will also increase brake wear.
Also, under straight line acceleration, the TCS will engage BEFORE the tires lose traction. If you start accelerating and then it feels like the car suddenly starts pulling harder once you reach 20MPH or so, that's not the engine at work, it's the TCS holding you back off the line even though you aren't spinning the tires.
Don't bother talking about how important the system is when you clearly don't understand how it works. It's a nanny for people who don't know how to drive and using it comes with a cost. Reduced performance, reduced fuel milage, and reduced brake life.
BTW, the last two cost you money.
7/8/12, 03:24 PM
#42
I thought all traction control system need to detect a slip before engaging - so Ford system can predict the future too, interesting. Now some stability control can be intrusive but must if no all reviewer find the Mustang implementation one of the least intrusive.
I respect everybody decision to drive their cars however they please but just remember, the Titanic was unsinkable too.
I respect everybody decision to drive their cars however they please but just remember, the Titanic was unsinkable too.
7/8/12, 04:29 PM
#43
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Think so?
Try this sometime. Run through a full tank of gas with TCS on and check your average milage at the end. Then, do the same with TCS turned off. I'll bet money that even on dry pavement you get better milage with TCS off.
You'll also get less rear brake wear with TCS turned off. You see, TCS applies the brakes not only when you spin the wheels, but also applies the brakes when it detects body lean. So, cornering at speed, even if you are not losing traction, it will apply the brakes to keep you from cornering harder. In order to override the drag you will step on your gas pedal harder, which will use more fuel, and will also increase brake wear.
Also, under straight line acceleration, the TCS will engage BEFORE the tires lose traction. If you start accelerating and then it feels like the car suddenly starts pulling harder once you reach 20MPH or so, that's not the engine at work, it's the TCS holding you back off the line even though you aren't spinning the tires.
Don't bother talking about how important the system is when you clearly don't understand how it works. It's a nanny for people who don't know how to drive and using it comes with a cost. Reduced performance, reduced fuel milage, and reduced brake life.
BTW, the last two cost you money.
This statement shows clearly that you don't have any idea what TCS is or how TCS works. It's not going to steer for you, it only applies the brakes. Are you trying to suggest you wouldn't be able to apply the brakes on your own if you got sideswiped by a truck?
If that's true then you shouldn't be allowed to drive.
And for the record, YES, I can absolutely, 100% say I can maintain control of the car after being sideswiped by a truck and pushed into the center divider with my car climbing 2 feet up the wall before coming down. That's precisely how my Nissan Maxima was totalled. Despite being sandwiched between a 2 ton truck and the concrete wall, once seperated I was still in complete control of my car and was able to pull it off the side of the road without hitting anything, despite the front left tie rod being shattered and the wheel pointing sideways.
Do yourself a favor and stop now. Your lack of knowledge and experience is showing.
Try this sometime. Run through a full tank of gas with TCS on and check your average milage at the end. Then, do the same with TCS turned off. I'll bet money that even on dry pavement you get better milage with TCS off.
You'll also get less rear brake wear with TCS turned off. You see, TCS applies the brakes not only when you spin the wheels, but also applies the brakes when it detects body lean. So, cornering at speed, even if you are not losing traction, it will apply the brakes to keep you from cornering harder. In order to override the drag you will step on your gas pedal harder, which will use more fuel, and will also increase brake wear.
Also, under straight line acceleration, the TCS will engage BEFORE the tires lose traction. If you start accelerating and then it feels like the car suddenly starts pulling harder once you reach 20MPH or so, that's not the engine at work, it's the TCS holding you back off the line even though you aren't spinning the tires.
Don't bother talking about how important the system is when you clearly don't understand how it works. It's a nanny for people who don't know how to drive and using it comes with a cost. Reduced performance, reduced fuel milage, and reduced brake life.
BTW, the last two cost you money.
This statement shows clearly that you don't have any idea what TCS is or how TCS works. It's not going to steer for you, it only applies the brakes. Are you trying to suggest you wouldn't be able to apply the brakes on your own if you got sideswiped by a truck?
If that's true then you shouldn't be allowed to drive.
And for the record, YES, I can absolutely, 100% say I can maintain control of the car after being sideswiped by a truck and pushed into the center divider with my car climbing 2 feet up the wall before coming down. That's precisely how my Nissan Maxima was totalled. Despite being sandwiched between a 2 ton truck and the concrete wall, once seperated I was still in complete control of my car and was able to pull it off the side of the road without hitting anything, despite the front left tie rod being shattered and the wheel pointing sideways.
Do yourself a favor and stop now. Your lack of knowledge and experience is showing.
getting sandwiched takes no driving skill what so ever. I would only use that story if you managed to get hit and then avoided the wall. Seriously you totalled a car and are using that to prove you don't need safeties that help you avoid crashes
7/8/12, 06:37 PM
#44
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Right, because someone else crashing into you is a direct indicator of your driving skill. Wow, a couple of you are really bringing your A game.
7/8/12, 07:04 PM
#45
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7/8/12, 08:08 PM
#48
Is your sense of manhood really tied up in this?
Why thank you, that's so kind of you to allow it!
That's a d*ck thing to say. So, when you manage to wreck with the computer driving for you, we will all know that you have no business driving a sports car.
Sounds like someone is regretting that he didn't get that Honda Fit.
I'll take that wager. Put your money where your mouth is, or stop telling strangers on the internet how to drive, your imagination based opinion of them, and how much driving skill you think they have (also based on nothing).
Were you trying to come off as a judgemental child?
I've been driving for well over 30 years. I've NEVER had a car with all of these nanny controls, and funny enough, I've NEVER wrecked a car by not having them. And I've had quite a few cars with more power and less traction than my Mustang, including a 1970 Cougar XR7, 1972 Olds 442, and a pair of heavily modified 1985 Camaros.
I turn off the TCS completely in dry weather because it quite honestly doesn't do anything for me. I don't street race and I don't "show off" by doing burnouts or powerslides. Thus, if I am even close to setting off the TCS it's probably because I'm pulling from a side road onto a main road with oncomming traffic, in which case the LAST THING I WANT IS FOR THE COMPUTER TO APPLY THE BRAKES.
If you're so incompetent behind the wheel that you require computers to control your throttle, braking, and cornering for you, perhaps you shouldn't be allowed to drive at all.
I've been driving for well over 30 years. I've NEVER had a car with all of these nanny controls, and funny enough, I've NEVER wrecked a car by not having them. And I've had quite a few cars with more power and less traction than my Mustang, including a 1970 Cougar XR7, 1972 Olds 442, and a pair of heavily modified 1985 Camaros.
I turn off the TCS completely in dry weather because it quite honestly doesn't do anything for me. I don't street race and I don't "show off" by doing burnouts or powerslides. Thus, if I am even close to setting off the TCS it's probably because I'm pulling from a side road onto a main road with oncomming traffic, in which case the LAST THING I WANT IS FOR THE COMPUTER TO APPLY THE BRAKES.
If you're so incompetent behind the wheel that you require computers to control your throttle, braking, and cornering for you, perhaps you shouldn't be allowed to drive at all.
I did forget that on the 2011 cars, to adjust the steering feel, you have to use the TCS settings.
Think so?
Try this sometime. Run through a full tank of gas with TCS on and check your average milage at the end. Then, do the same with TCS turned off. I'll bet money that even on dry pavement you get better milage with TCS off.
You'll also get less rear brake wear with TCS turned off. You see, TCS applies the brakes not only when you spin the wheels, but also applies the brakes when it detects body lean. So, cornering at speed, even if you are not losing traction, it will apply the brakes to keep you from cornering harder. In order to override the drag you will step on your gas pedal harder, which will use more fuel, and will also increase brake wear.
Also, under straight line acceleration, the TCS will engage BEFORE the tires lose traction. If you start accelerating and then it feels like the car suddenly starts pulling harder once you reach 20MPH or so, that's not the engine at work, it's the TCS holding you back off the line even though you aren't spinning the tires.
Don't bother talking about how important the system is when you clearly don't understand how it works. It's a nanny for people who don't know how to drive and using it comes with a cost. Reduced performance, reduced fuel milage, and reduced brake life.
BTW, the last two cost you money.
And for the record, YES, I can absolutely, 100% say I can maintain control of the car after being sideswiped by a truck and pushed into the center divider with my car climbing 2 feet up the wall before coming down. That's precisely how my Nissan Maxima was totalled. Despite being sandwiched between a 2 ton truck and the concrete wall, once seperated I was still in complete control of my car and was able to pull it off the side of the road without hitting anything, despite the front left tie rod being shattered and the wheel pointing sideways.
Do yourself a favor and stop now. Your lack of knowledge and experience is showing.
Try this sometime. Run through a full tank of gas with TCS on and check your average milage at the end. Then, do the same with TCS turned off. I'll bet money that even on dry pavement you get better milage with TCS off.
You'll also get less rear brake wear with TCS turned off. You see, TCS applies the brakes not only when you spin the wheels, but also applies the brakes when it detects body lean. So, cornering at speed, even if you are not losing traction, it will apply the brakes to keep you from cornering harder. In order to override the drag you will step on your gas pedal harder, which will use more fuel, and will also increase brake wear.
Also, under straight line acceleration, the TCS will engage BEFORE the tires lose traction. If you start accelerating and then it feels like the car suddenly starts pulling harder once you reach 20MPH or so, that's not the engine at work, it's the TCS holding you back off the line even though you aren't spinning the tires.
Don't bother talking about how important the system is when you clearly don't understand how it works. It's a nanny for people who don't know how to drive and using it comes with a cost. Reduced performance, reduced fuel milage, and reduced brake life.
BTW, the last two cost you money.
And for the record, YES, I can absolutely, 100% say I can maintain control of the car after being sideswiped by a truck and pushed into the center divider with my car climbing 2 feet up the wall before coming down. That's precisely how my Nissan Maxima was totalled. Despite being sandwiched between a 2 ton truck and the concrete wall, once seperated I was still in complete control of my car and was able to pull it off the side of the road without hitting anything, despite the front left tie rod being shattered and the wheel pointing sideways.
Do yourself a favor and stop now. Your lack of knowledge and experience is showing.
I'm not saying there aren't people on here that can handle their cars at the limit, but there is an awful lot of arrogance and no real valid proof that their driving skills can outmanage a computer when assigned to the same task. How many of those posting in here even fully understand the TCS system? I don't think anyone here is an "expert", myself included. I do plan on making some calls to find out more about the design of our system.
Last edited by Overboost; 7/8/12 at 08:29 PM.
7/8/12, 08:16 PM
#49
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And I don't see what you are using the laughing faces for. You're the fool who thinks TCS will save you mid-spin.
Try it sometime. Make sure your seatbelt is on though, you'll need it.Fact is, All AdvanceTrac does is apply the brakes BEFORE you lose traction. The system is very aggressive and will apply the brakes if it simply thinks you MIGHT lose traction, whether you actually will or not. It has built in safety parameters on forward and lateral acceleration and will apply the brakes anytime you exceed those limits. The limits are NOT decided by actual traction because by the time it detected a loss of traction it would be too late to use the TCS system.
The TCS system DOES NOT help you recover from a loss of control, it attempts to prevent the loss of control in the first place by limiting acceleration and cornering within a predefined safety margin. That safety margin is for bafoons who cannot handle basic driving on their own.
And for the record, try spending 20 years driving cars like a 1970 Cougar XR7, 1972 Olds 442, 1976 Hurst Olds, or a 1969 Camaro with over 500hp, and you'll realize how useless Advancetrac is. After 30 years of driving, and driving many old muscle cars with big horsepower, skinny tires, and drum brakes, all AdvanceTrac does for me is annoy me by applying the brakes when I don't want it to.
Last edited by Moustang; 7/8/12 at 08:19 PM.
7/8/12, 08:22 PM
#50
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And if you want to see just how agressive it really is, go to a school parking lot and setup a 600 foot slolam. $10 says that with AdvanceTrac on it will shut you down almost entirely by the 3rd cone. Loss of traction is not required, just get the body to lean over more than 4-5 degrees and it will jam on the brakes for you.
When I leave my house I have to cross a major street with 3 lanes of traffic, then a hump in the center divider, and then turn left and merge with oncoming traffic. If I leave it on the TCS will engage EVERY TIME I go over that hump, not because I lose traction, it's simply detecting the sudden change in body lean and 'Ford Engineers' determined in some laboratory that such a change is bad and the brakes need to be applied.
I've tried the TCS on vs. TCS off on a long trip and noticed very little (0.1-0.2mpg) difference in fuel economy while doing so.
I guess now is where I should state the extremely obvious. OF COURSE TCS WON'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE ON THE HIGHWAY AT STEADY SPEEDS!
DUH!!!
Try it with 100% city driving, where you make a couple of hundred starts from a dead stop in a single tank of gas. You know...... try actually driving in a situation where TCS is used.
I have. I get 22.3MPG with AdvanceTrac on, and 24.9 MPG with it turned off, driving the same route in the same traffic every day. You would be surprised how much rear brake is applied in the 0-20 MPH range in normal driving.
Last edited by Moustang; 7/8/12 at 08:35 PM.
7/8/12, 08:27 PM
#51
Originally Posted by Moustang
On a long trip, huh?
I guess now is where I should state the extremely obvious. OF COURSE TCS WON'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE ON THE HIGHWAY AT STEADY SPEEDS!
DUH!!!
Try it with 100% city driving, where you make a couple of hundred starts from a dead stop in a single tank of gas. You know...... try actually driving in a situation where TCS is used.
7/8/12, 08:53 PM
#54
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I'll accept that as proof that you're a bot and not a real human, yes.
Now bot, explain to me how Ford's Roll Stability Control system works. Start with explaining how it's a gyroscopic based system that applies the brakes based on a predetermined lean angle.
Or, if you don't know yourself, you can skip to 1:12 of this video.
Pay attention to a few key phrases, such as "if an unstable condition is ANTICIPATED" rather than DETECTED.
In otherwords, it guesses, and applies the brakes if it THINKS you're car is unstable, whether it actually is or not. (See my previous example where turning while crossing a hump in the road will set the system off)
Now bot, explain to me how Ford's Roll Stability Control system works. Start with explaining how it's a gyroscopic based system that applies the brakes based on a predetermined lean angle.
Or, if you don't know yourself, you can skip to 1:12 of this video.
Pay attention to a few key phrases, such as "if an unstable condition is ANTICIPATED" rather than DETECTED.
In otherwords, it guesses, and applies the brakes if it THINKS you're car is unstable, whether it actually is or not. (See my previous example where turning while crossing a hump in the road will set the system off)
7/8/12, 09:24 PM
#55
So, from the video, the RSC sensor just keeps the side curtains from going off (looking at you GM...)
I was under the impression that RSC was only on the SUVs/Crossovers/Pickups now, not across the entire lineup. The video seems to support that.
I was under the impression that RSC was only on the SUVs/Crossovers/Pickups now, not across the entire lineup. The video seems to support that.
7/8/12, 09:43 PM
#56
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Thanks for the vid I had not seen one like that.
Sadly you missed the most important point about the system that you and no other driver can do. It can apply each brake individually to help keep control of the vehicle. Unless you have 4 brake pedels you do not have as much control of a vehicle as the computer does. Your comment about having me go into a spin to see if TCS would save me tells me you have never pushed the throttle too hard in a corner because that is exactly what it does do. I'm sure many here have given there car too much throttle in turn, tail whips out, then boom TCS kicks in and the car is back in a strait line. You should try it some time so you can see how it works.
Sorry your so concerned about gas mileage and brake pads, I'd say get a Prius for MPG and..... I guess a bicycle doesn't need to replace pads??? Not sure on that one.
Do you really need to make public streets full of kids, pets and other drivers your personal race track? I dont think getting light to light in a tenth of a second quicker justifies turning off all safety settings.
Just to make sure, your saying sport mode not default mode kills all acceleration when your Getting on the freeway?
Just to respond simply to your previous post.
No TCS does not just apply brakes the same as you do with one pedal
Yes TCS DOES help you recover from loss of control as explained above
I don't need to drive any of those cars you mentioned, my 2013 GT is better
Sadly you missed the most important point about the system that you and no other driver can do. It can apply each brake individually to help keep control of the vehicle. Unless you have 4 brake pedels you do not have as much control of a vehicle as the computer does. Your comment about having me go into a spin to see if TCS would save me tells me you have never pushed the throttle too hard in a corner because that is exactly what it does do. I'm sure many here have given there car too much throttle in turn, tail whips out, then boom TCS kicks in and the car is back in a strait line. You should try it some time so you can see how it works.
Sorry your so concerned about gas mileage and brake pads, I'd say get a Prius for MPG and..... I guess a bicycle doesn't need to replace pads??? Not sure on that one.
Do you really need to make public streets full of kids, pets and other drivers your personal race track? I dont think getting light to light in a tenth of a second quicker justifies turning off all safety settings.
Just to make sure, your saying sport mode not default mode kills all acceleration when your Getting on the freeway?
Just to respond simply to your previous post.
No TCS does not just apply brakes the same as you do with one pedal
Yes TCS DOES help you recover from loss of control as explained above
I don't need to drive any of those cars you mentioned, my 2013 GT is better
Last edited by Ghost.223; 7/8/12 at 09:54 PM.
7/8/12, 10:51 PM
#57
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Originally Posted by CCS86
Is your sense of manhood really tied up in this?
Why thank you, that's so kind of you to allow it!
That's a d*ck thing to say. So, when you manage to wreck with the computer driving for you, we will all know that you have no business driving a sports car.
Sounds like someone is regretting that he didn't get that Honda Fit.
I'll take that wager. Put your money where your mouth is, or stop telling strangers on the internet how to drive, your imagination based opinion of them, and how much driving skill you think they have (also based on nothing).
7/8/12, 11:16 PM
#58
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This is becoming a very heated and interesting thread, I'm actually glad I started it and appreciate all of the information coming through (and the passion on both sides).
I've been driving cars for 30 years now, and only recently have owned cars with stability control. I've found them mostly irritating, however they have come in handy during rainy or otherwise not normal situations.
I've found that my mustang performs actually VERY well under many handling situation compared to the "normal" cars I've owned until now. It actually performs very well cornering compared to my wife's AWD crossover. That is with AdvanceTrac on. I do not drive KrAzY in any way, and most of the time I have my 6 year old in the back seat with me. I never "chirp" and always take corners safely. I enjoy my mustang for many reasons, and maybe I'm a responsible driver compared to most (I'd think most of us who drive a car like this MUST be more responsible if we're over 30).
I absolutely HATE the 2nd to 3rd slow down, and if TCS is responsible for it, I'm not happy. I'll be the first to admit that TCS should be on when there is moisture on the road. It can be easy to go sideways with just a tap of the gas turning left going downhill (I know, it was raining on the freeway entrance on my second day of owning this car, and I'm sure it saved me from being stupid). But once you know the car (and believe me, I'm slow in testing the limits of this car), it can be a little more safe to drive.
Cars 50 years ago had nothing like TCS (nor did they have the horsepower or the torque), but people were USED to driving powerful cars. I've driver 4 or 6 cylinder cars most of my life, never truly owning a v8 like this 13 I own now.
Maybe that made me a better driver as >I< fully appreciate the power my new car has, and I'm cautious as to what "pushing" it may do. My last car was a 2010 altima, no sloucher in power now-a-days (175 hp, 4 banger), but NOTHING compared to my 5.0....
anyhow, I digress. This has been an interesting thread, filled with passion and strong opinions. I'll make the decision on how I drive, when I drive based upon a variety of factors.
There may be times I drive with no TCS, or full TCS, or something in between. But my GOAL is to have a fun and SAFE drive in my car, with that in mind I'll decide where I go, and thank you all for your thoughts on how you drive.
I encourage all of you to drive within your limits and be safe, for you and those around you.
-Chris
I've been driving cars for 30 years now, and only recently have owned cars with stability control. I've found them mostly irritating, however they have come in handy during rainy or otherwise not normal situations.
I've found that my mustang performs actually VERY well under many handling situation compared to the "normal" cars I've owned until now. It actually performs very well cornering compared to my wife's AWD crossover. That is with AdvanceTrac on. I do not drive KrAzY in any way, and most of the time I have my 6 year old in the back seat with me. I never "chirp" and always take corners safely. I enjoy my mustang for many reasons, and maybe I'm a responsible driver compared to most (I'd think most of us who drive a car like this MUST be more responsible if we're over 30).
I absolutely HATE the 2nd to 3rd slow down, and if TCS is responsible for it, I'm not happy. I'll be the first to admit that TCS should be on when there is moisture on the road. It can be easy to go sideways with just a tap of the gas turning left going downhill (I know, it was raining on the freeway entrance on my second day of owning this car, and I'm sure it saved me from being stupid). But once you know the car (and believe me, I'm slow in testing the limits of this car), it can be a little more safe to drive.
Cars 50 years ago had nothing like TCS (nor did they have the horsepower or the torque), but people were USED to driving powerful cars. I've driver 4 or 6 cylinder cars most of my life, never truly owning a v8 like this 13 I own now.
Maybe that made me a better driver as >I< fully appreciate the power my new car has, and I'm cautious as to what "pushing" it may do. My last car was a 2010 altima, no sloucher in power now-a-days (175 hp, 4 banger), but NOTHING compared to my 5.0....
anyhow, I digress. This has been an interesting thread, filled with passion and strong opinions. I'll make the decision on how I drive, when I drive based upon a variety of factors.
There may be times I drive with no TCS, or full TCS, or something in between. But my GOAL is to have a fun and SAFE drive in my car, with that in mind I'll decide where I go, and thank you all for your thoughts on how you drive.
I encourage all of you to drive within your limits and be safe, for you and those around you.
-Chris
7/9/12, 04:48 AM
#59
Originally Posted by Mustang Mafia
Right on, the guy has a few thousand posts and thinks he's God. Nothing but a jerk which has no friends obviously.
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