PTRocks

EDIT Note: I started this thread in my boredom waiting for some real numbers. If this seems like a waste of your time, please pardon my Fanboy-ism...

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So I've been wondering about the performance of the new V6 vs. the 2010 GT. Here are some salient points: (2010 GT specs taken from Car an Driver here, 2011 V6 here)

4.6L V8 - peak torque = 320 lb-ft @ 4250 RPM
3.7L V6 - peak torque = 280 lb-ft @ 4250 RPM

Ratio of peak torque 4.6L/3.7L = 320/280 = 1.143 (i.e. the 4.6L makes 14.3% more peak torque) so at first glance it looks to have the advantage. However, Ford has been quite deliberate in choosing the transmission ratios for the new 6-speed. The end result may be surprising.

MANUAL TRANS GEAR RATIOS:
Gear: 3.7LV6 - 4.6LV8
1st: 4.236 - 3.38
2nd: 2.538 - 2.00
3rd: 1.635 - 1.32
4th: 1.238 - 1.00
5th: 1.000 - 0.62
6th: 0.70 - n/a

Let's compare a V6 with the optional 3.31 gears to the 4.6L v8 with 3.55 gears, to see what the torque at the rear wheels will be at peak torque in each gear.

Torque = peak torque x trans gear ratio x final gear ratio (e.g. V6 1st gear = 280*4.236*3.31 = 3926 lb-ft)

PEAK TORQUE AT REAR WHEEL:
Gear # V6 | V8
1st = 3926 | 3840 ft-lb
2nd = 2352 | 2272
3rd = 1515 | 1500
4th = 1147 | 1136
5th = 927 | 704
6th = 649

So in every gear but the top gear, the V6 generates more peak thrust than the outgoing V8! (assuming tires' diameters are the same for 2011)

Now, at what road speed does peak torque happen? To look at this simply, let's again assume that the tire diameters haven't changed and first multiply the transmission and final drive ratios together.

OVERALL GEAR RATIO
Gear: 3.7LV6 - 4.6LV8
1st: 14.02 - 12.00
2nd: 8.40 - 7.10
3rd: 5.41 - 4.69
4th: 4.10 - 3.55
5th: 3.31 - 2.20
6th: 2.32 - n/a

To put the road speeds to the above numbers we find that the stock 235/50R18 KDWS' roll 759 revolutions per mile, and set the engine speed to 4250RPM

Therefore: Road Speed (in MPH) = (Engine RPM / Overall gear ratio) * (60 minutes / 1 hour ) / (759 rev. / mile)

ROAD SPEED AT PEAK TORQUE (MPH)
Gear: 3.7LV6 - 4.6LV8
1st: 24.0 - 28.0
2nd: 40.0 - 47.3
3rd: 62.1 - 71.6
4th: 82.0 - 94.6
5th: 101.5 - 152.7
6th: 144.8

So what does this mean? The 2011 V6 equipped with the option 3.31 rear-end makes more torque, sooner, in a lighter car, and it is going to be one hell of a performance bargain, and is going to be beating up on stock 2005-2010 GT's almost at will.

Evil_Capri

Internet Racing!!!!

xlover

true you might want to review the stats for full throttle under the entire curve, you only picked 1 data point in the power band

WarpdSpazm

Thanks for dropping the resale value of my '06 GT another grand or two...


So to save money, my parents should get my new driving brother my old V8 instead of a new V6....

I wonder how the insurane will look on that car???

Tony Alonso

Hopefully, the title of this thread was to evoke spirited discussion and not to have "mine is better than yours"-fest.

That said, in the all important "seat-of-the-pants" department, people will make their evaluation of the impact of these changes, along with the sounds being generated. Also, as far as "beating up at will", driver response times will factor into the all-important acceleration runs since we have powerplants that are closer than before. It will be interesting to see what happens when the tests start flying.

Tony Alonso

I think you will be safe, as rebates are actually helping to do that for you

jedikd

Math is sound for the most part but you'd have to look at a dyno chart (which we don't have yet for the 3.7L). Peak torque and peak hp are for the marketing people, dyno charts tell the real story of engine performance.

Bert

more importantly, will it kick the V6 Camaro's butt?

it's looking pretty good for that to be a huge YES!

would you mind doing all that math again with the V6 camaro in the third column?

Oh, and normalize it for weight too?

thanks!

objoe

[/QUOTE]PEAK TORQUE AT REAR WHEEL:
Gear # V6 | V8
1st = 3926 | 3840 ft-lb
2nd = 2352 | 2272
3rd = 1515 | 1500
4th = 1147 | 1136
5th = 927 | 704
6th = 649

So in every gear but the top gear, the V6 generates more peak thrust than the outgoing V8! (assuming tires' diameters are the same for 2011)

Now, at what road speed does peak torque happen? To look at this simply, let's again assume that the tire diameters haven't changed and first multiply the transmission and final drive ratios together.

Therefore: Road Speed (in MPH) = (Engine RPM / Overall gear ratio) * (60 minutes / 1 hour ) / (759 rev. / mile)

ROAD SPEED AT PEAK TORQUE (MPH)
Gear: 3.7LV6 - 4.6LV8
1st: 24.0 - 28.0
2nd: 40.0 - 47.3
3rd: 62.1 - 71.6
4th: 82.0 - 94.6
5th: 101.5 - 152.7
6th: 144.8

So what does this mean? The 2011 V6 equipped with the option 3.31 rear-end makes more torque, sooner, in a lighter car, and it is going to be one hell of a performance bargain, and is going to be beating up on stock 2005-2010 GT's almost at will.[/QUOTE]





So the V6 will be quicker but the V8 is faster?

mustangfan123

All I can say is, I think a 2011 V6 manual will definitely hang with a stock 2005-2010 S197, more likely if it's an automatic. The Mustang V6 is supposed to be over 200lbs lighter than the Camaro V6, which has a low 14 second 1/4 mile, which leads me to believe that the Mustang V6 will be at least 2 tenths faster, who knows what the gap will be with 3:31's.

Remember, this is ALL estimates, there's not even that much information out currently to back my hypothesis, so take it with a grain of salt and wait until we start seeing real figures put out there.

cinque35

can't wait to see the first guy with a 3.7 race a 4.6 and lose...
then he'll be like what happened? everyone kept saying it would be faster

Ministang

Wow, this is about as relevant to real world performance as the virtual car comparisons that Motortrend used to do. "Internet racing" like this with a model that hasn't even been released yet is even worse than "magazine racing", at least when you're using 1/4 mile and 0-60 times from magazines, you're dealing with a real person driving a real car.

I wasn't aware that the final curb weight figures had been released yet for the 2011 V6, just that Ford said the V6 with Performance Package would come in at less than 3500 lbs. Well, the curb weight on my 2008 GT was only 3490 lbs, and some of the 2005-06 GT's were even lighter off the factory floor.

The 2011 V6 will be a very good car, without a doubt. Definitely the best base Mustang ever released, but it is still too early to make any kind of performance claims for the car, or relevant comparisons to earlier S197 V8 Mustangs.

Thomas S

Wow you are quite the math whiz!

I doubt it will be quicker than the current GT but even if it's close that's quite an accomplishment!

UnrealFord

Exactly what I was thinking, I would bet a paycheck on a 2005-2010 v8, everytime,
Now if you compare it to a 2004 Mach1, the V6 really has no chance

PTRocks

Absolutely true.

We do have one other data point - Peak Power. In one of Ford's articles interviewing their 5.0L engineers when the engines were announced, the person made a point of how they were able to increase the RPM difference between peak torque, and peak power. A wider range means a flatter, more usable torque curve.

Since we know the RPM where Peak Power occurs, we can calculate the torque at that RPM using the formula:

TORQUE = (POWER * 5252) / RPM.

The 2010 4.6L is rated at 315hp at 6250 RPM, which means it has a torque of:
315*5252/6250 = 264 ft-lb (or 82.5% of its peak torque).

The 2011 V6 is rated at 305hp at 6500 RPM,
305*5252/6500 = 246 ft-lb (or 87.9% of its peak torque)

If we ignore the slight difference in RPM, and go back to look at the overall gear ratios and calculate rear-wheel torque at peak power:

OVERALL GEAR RATIO:
Gear: 3.7LV6 - 4.6LV8
1st: 14.02 - 12.00
2nd: 8.40 - 7.10
3rd: 5.41 - 4.69
4th: 4.10 - 3.55
5th: 3.31 - 2.20
6th: 2.32 - n/a

REAR-WHEEL TORQUE AT PEAK POWER:
Gear: 3.7LV6 - 4.6LV8
1st: 3449 - 3168
2nd: 2066 - 1874
3rd: 1331 - 1238
4th: 1009 - 937
5th: 814 - 580
6th: 571

So again, at peak power the 2011 V6 wins out, even before its lower weight is taken into account!

Skotty

I'd bet on the 4.6 winning by a small margin.

I'd love to see a huge mag article comparing different Mustangs. Would be a fun read. Ones I would like to see included:

One of the late 60's / early 70's top dogs
1993 Cobra
1999 Cobra
2004 Cobra
2010 V6
2010 GT
2010 GT w/ Track Pack
2010 GT500
2011 V6
2011 V6 w/ Performance Pkg
2011 GT
2011 GT w/ Track Pack
2011 GT500

UnrealFord

Fixed

PTRocks

Hey, what can I say? I'm bored of waiting for Ford to let the mags actually test the car and get some real numbers down.

UnrealFord

Hey, we cant blame ya for trying somthing, I have been waiting for the damm test also, searching the net everyday, hoping Ford would release somthing

PTRocks

Quite possibly in the 1/4, yes.

As for top speed, Ford has made some changes to reduce the drag of the 2011's by a few % compared to the 2010's, so who knows there?