For a 2010MY SE, it will most likely be a 4.6L or 5.4L.
They could either water down the 5.4L GT500 motor to 400hp or add a SC to the 4.6L.

 

Boomer: I apologize for the above posting as you intially read it. Please read it again now that it is complete. The, ah, er, ummm copulating time-out was about to strike, so I had to "Save" the partially-completed original posting while I completed the rest of the posting thereafter.

That supercharged 4.6 three-valve in the "AV8R" is a collection of parts from the FRPP catalog, much like the "FR500" mods from the catalog that offer 500 HP for your 4.6 three-valve Mustang GT without you having to trade in your GT for a 5.4 four-valve GT500. There is a low-boost-pressure collection of FRPP catalog parts that produces an emissions-meeting 400 HP, and those parts were used for the 400 HP engine in the "AV8R" one-off being auctioned off today.

 

Maybe I should have rephrased it then..sorry..
The gist of it... if its not the 5.0 for 2010... probably won't see any 400hp GT or SE.

I remember a while back there was rumour of a 5.4 4v
but I could see them erring on the side of caution and just releasing the V6/GT for the first year. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a 5.4 Mach1 with 400hp. But at what weight penalty. I'd rather just wait for the 5.0

 

I'm being lazy, but I am guessing that the SC in the "AV8R" is the same SC that is offered in the catalog, and that it comes with a 1 year warranty - Dealership installed?

 

Boomer: 'Nothing to apologize for, Boom--it isn't your fault that time-out strikes before a forum participant can put some thought into a reply, get it typed in, and edit it for punctuation & readability!

I, too, want to see 5.0 DOHC V8s as options in Mustangs as soon as possible--be it a new Hurricane/Boss/EcoBoost/Whatever or the current crate 5.0 'Cammer certified for emissions and bolted up to a Tremec 6060 and 3.73s.

I don't really want to see an iron 5.4 in any model of Mustang, although it may be the most cost-conscious way to add power easily. Leave the iron for the trucks.

Presuming that I did the math correctly, if the barrels that are used to make the 4.6 block into a Grand-Am 5.0 'Cammer are used in the 5.4 block, the resulting displacement increase comes out to 351 cubic inches--now that's a coincidence Ford lovers could go wild over! I believe those same barrels used in the 6.8 V10 would increase the displacement of that engine to about 440 cubic inches--hardly the neat coincidence of a 351 but it's 89 cubic inches bigger, so who cares? Luckily, the V10 drops right into the S197 engine compartment, although I dunno how well it would align with the engine mounts. Even the very short (34" long) Aston Martin 6.0 DOHC V12 fits, even with long tube headers (because it's a 60-degree V12 instead of a 90-degree V8, it is narrower than the modulars). It would be an absolute miracle if the AM V12 would match up with the S197's engine mounts, however. Western MotorSports of Calgary in Canada has converted an S197 to use this engine (www.wmsracing.com) so you can check it out if you like crazy Mustangs. The've got one splendid video of this car, and that V12 sound is soulful. They call their driveable showcar "Vanquish'd" and it was at the SEMA show in '07 or '06. They could tell you if the engine mounts line up.

The above examples of possible swaps prove that Ford could affordably produce some absolutely monster Mustangs if they get the jones to do so. Brian Wolfe, Dan Davis's successor, sounds like he's got the cojones if he's also got the jones...

Greg "Eights" Ates

 

GTJOHN: Yeah, probably so. There may be several superchargers in the FRPP catalog by now, and this would be the smallest one, or else the one with the least boost if they're the same size but offered with different pulley sets. The 400 HP three-valve 4.6 and the 500 HP three-valve 4.6 are both supposedly buildable using just the FRPP catalog and a deep, deep credit card.

As I told Boomer, I want the Mustang to offer a DOHC 5.0 four-valve V8. I'd prefer the mystical Hurricane/Boss/EcoBoost/Whatever 5.0 engine, but failing that Ford can appease me by emissions-certifying the current 5.0 'Cammer and dropping it into Mustang GTs as a regular engine option from the factory. Emissions-certifying the 5.0 'Cammer oughtta be high school shop class simple, as the emissions hardware that certified the Ford GT DOHC 5.4 should be a bolt-in operation on this engine.

 

I think the days of a 5.0+L engine are numbered.

The GT500 for the near future will more than likely still use the 5.4 4v
From what I remember, it's certified for a lot more than what its actually using.
And it'll go on a diet.

It sounds like the GT500s 5.4 (and Ford GT for that matter) from the beginning was engineered to take on takers from the beginning... and that's a good thing. It has the displacement we lacked in previous years, and the ability to put out some nice numbers. So in the short term that's covered.

The rumour over on BON about a TwinForce/Ecoboost 5.0 that is putting down some CRAZY numbers...makes the future look bright.

And going back to the 5.0 (DI or not)...still believe the first iteration will be PFI as stated on BON. Is going to be a dynamo of a motor. And it'll only get better

As for the 5.4.. I just can't see them using it for 1 year on an SE (although crazier things have happened) but if its just an unSC'd iron GT500 5.4... it'll put some weight on the car, something that no one wants.

 

Boomer: We all like to read crazy HP/torque/RPM and now crazy mileage numbers in cars we are considering--or in cars we just like a lot even if we'll never own one (Aston Martins come to mind). What really matters are the numbers these engines can create with production hardware and while meeting all emissions requirements--since that's the only way we'll get to drive vehicles with these engines on the streets.

In a lab on a dyno, crazy numbers can come from just about any engine with a knowledgeable tuner turning the wrenches. Crazy numbers sittin' there in the dealership's showroom is really where it's at, though, unless you're building a pre-smog hotrod from a '65 Mustang fastback, etc.
I really, really want a new 5.0 in Mustangs--both from Ann Arbor and from Shelby's Vegas facilities. From Ann Arbor so there'll be a hopefully affordable 5.0 model and from Shelby because the man did so much for Ford and Mustangs then and now. He has the cojones to take Mustangs where the factory would never dare step foot, although why that is true has always puzzled me...
All the other tuners--Steeda, Saleen, Griggs, Roush, Hennessey, Shinoda, et al--are welcome to join in with the same privileges as provided to Ol' Shel' hisself, each receiving all the 5.0s their budgets can support.

Give us the hardware, Alan, and let the free-for-all begin! A top-drawer high-tech engine at 5.0 liters is right for this day and age, and can bask in the reputation the previous pushrod 5.0 Mustang earned while starting a reputation of its own. Lesser companies can keep making their two-valve pushrodders bigger while Ford makes their 5.0s better! I know who'll come out on top in a competition like this...

A great V6 effort is terrific, too, but I myself will cough up the bread for the Mustang with the forked eight!

 

According to today's article in the MSN money/financial section, GM suffered a huge 15.5 Billion dollar loss for the second quarter in 2008. Thus surpassing Ford's 8.7 Billion dollar loss for it's second quarter.

That being said, it appears that both GM and Chrysler are in worse financial shape than Ford is, although not by very much. However it just goes to show, that out of the big 3 domestic automakers. Ford is indeed doing slightly better !


http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...01markets.aspx

 

GM is in far worse financial shape than Ford is, and the gap widens virtually by the day. As important as what you profit or lose is what you spent/spend that money on. GM is losing much more money than Ford and has far less of what they need coming down the pipe to show for it. That isn't good.

 

True, Ford has more 'liquidity' at this point than GM, though both are in sad shape. It is truly a measure of how much of a giant GM actually is that the company can post a 38.7 billion dollar loss in 3Q 2007 and a 15.5 billion dollar loss in 2Q 2008 and still be in business. It's hard to believe any company could absorb that kind of loss and still be in business. Those numbers are staggering.

I think too, a part of GM's woe is not directly related to their automotive products. They're paying the price for decisions they made with GMAC and Delphi. GM could have completely severed itself from Delphi when they spun off the unit--they didn't and now they are on the hook for a portion of the Delphi fiasco.

GM also had the option of completely divesting themselves of GMAC, but chose to maintain a minority position (I think 49%) of the operation. GMAC is tangled in the sub-prime mess and since GM still has a large stake in GMAC, by proxy, GM is also paying the price for some questionable credit practices.

I hope they can turn it around--but with a liquidity position of $21 billion, I don't think they have a lot of time. I'm not sure how long $21 billion will last an operation the size of GM.

 

m05fastbackGT & interested others: Be wary of reading too much into corporate profit/loss statements. For taxation purposes, some items are considered as "losses" which actually cost the corporation little or nothing. Also, the greater the claimed losses, the lower the business taxes that have to be paid--IRS auditors have the job of establishing how "real" the claimed losses actually are.

Claiming near-ruinous losses may influence Congressmen to lighten up on CAFE, NHTSA, and/or other legislation that the auto companies oppose. The losses may not be real. but it all sounds dire in the sound bytes and the headlines.

Certainly, some of the claimed losses are indeed losses--but neither you nor I will ever be told the real, honest truth in plain English. This applies to foreign-owned autombile manufacturers, too, and to companies that manufacture goods other than vehicles.

Basic rule: None of them are telling the Truth, the Whole Truth, and Nothing but the Truth...
Their motto: You can tell some of the people some of the truth some of the time, and other people some of the truth all of the time, but you can never tell any of the people all of the truth all of the time.

Greg "Eights" Ates

 

Heh thanks to the bloated mess of a tax system.

 

things I learned while reading this thread:

Bammer and bt4 are best friends


And all of you have completely forgotten what the mustang is supposed to be.

The mustang always has been, and I wish I could say always will be the affordable muscle car for the average joe and I think that will remain the norm, I doubt ford will put out a GT that will cost more then the high 20k mark. As much as I would love to see the mustang trounce anything GM can put out historically camaros have usually put out better numbers but the mustang seems to sell just fine regardless.

Fact of the matter is the mass majority of mustang owners don't really care about hp numbers, they just want a cool "muscle" car and with a history that the mustang has its what they get, which is why I see 100s more v6 mustangs then v8s, that and gas prices. Then you have the other end of the spectrum of mustang owners of guys like me, I am a ford guy, ever since I was 5 years old I wanted a mustang, my first car I bought for 600 dollars was a 82 mustang with a in line 6 cylinder motor just so I could have a mustang, a terd of a beast but it was a mustang and it was mine.


When I bought my mustang it was the fastest car you could buy for less then 30k, and you could get a GT base for 26k less if you can haggle like me. I have a feeling ford will do it right and the car will sell just as well as anything chevy and dodge can put out, and while it may dissapoint some of us fact of the matter is, ford is going to go with whatever combination will net them the most profit and sales.

 

It's inevitable as time goes on....prices will rise... you'll see 30k Mustang GTs

Just hoping on the 2010-2012or13 that they can keep the base GT below 30k

Prices rose across the board recently by 350 bones on the current GT.
The new one, depending on what toys are standard (including any new transmissions or lightweight material if used...) could be knocking on that 30k doorstep.

 

....I hope the rumours about the 5.0 are true, but history and the current financial climate leads me to believe that the same thing that happened with the 03 Mach1 & 03 Cobra will most likely happen again. Ford, wanting to save time and money, will walk over to SVT, take the 5.4 off the shelf, remove the SC, tweak the intake, put it in a glorified GT package, add some decals and call it a BOSS mustang. This is not my hope, but I feel its inevitable. It will still be a heck of a car if some FRPP parts are used etc, but it will be overweight compared to what most of us would want.

The only light I see at the end of the tunnel, is that Ford will recoginze the competition from Dodge and GM, and therefore give us the lightweight, high reving, road course ready screamer we all want. With that said, I still feel thats its unlikely.

Interesting to note that, that many of us agree the 5.4 iron block is too heavy, but in 2003, someone would have told me that Ford was going to put a 5.4 DOHC 4V SC V8 in a SVT Cobra "but" that it would weigh 4K lbs, I would have said, who cares, bring it on......

Hoping for the 5.0, but If past history is a prediction of the future. I think I could be happy with 5.4 N/A Boss with a 3.73 rear end and FRPP suspension..........Oh, and did I mention, I would be ok with Grabbber Blue too

 

Prices do rise, just look back to early 90's where a brand new gt cost around 13k or 14k and then the car hit 20k late 90's. and now late 2000's its nearing 30k.

Did some research on base price of mustang gt in relation to minimum wage.

in 1988 minimum wage was $3.35 and base gt was $12,745.

by 1998 wage increased by 53.7% to $5.15 gt went up by 58.1% to $20,150

in 2008 wage was up 27.2% to 6.55 and gt was up 30.2% to $26,240

In total over 20 years wages increased by 95.5% where gt went up by 105.8%.

So its pretty consistent even though the mustang keeps getting proporionatly more expensive.

 

I would be happy with a 400hp 5.4L Mach1.

Now is not the time for Ford to ignore the Mustang. They knew GM & Dodge were bringing back their Muscle cars, plus the FWD V6 Jap cars are nearly as fast as the Mustang GT!
The Mustang is one of the few "hits" Ford has going for them.

My source at Ford told me back in March, that the new GDI V8 would be ready in Feb. 2010 for the 2011MY Mustang. I haven't spoken to him in months, but if things have slowed down, and we are going to get a new non-GDI V8? I say why bother? Just use the 5.4L until the new GDI V8 is ready. It doesn't make good business sense to be working on two V8's, when you are only going to kill one of them off in the near future. Unless somehow you can mod the non-GDI into a GDI.

 

First off, I love Fords, Period. I have had 6 Mustangs.

But enough, enough is enough.

5.0 motor? Twin Turbo Ecoboost V6? Whatever..... I wont believe it until I see it.

Where is Fourcam? He has been kind of quiet lately.

Sorry, I am just a little pissed right now after reading through this entire thread. Yeah the Challenger is heavy, yeah the Camaro is heavy....... But come on WTF is going on at Ford????

Yeah the current (STOCK), Mustang GT is lighter , YES I SAID STOCK, but what the hell is that gonna matter against an SS Camaro next year, or a modded V6/RS???

I am going to sum it up like this, Chrysler has come out with a freaking SRT 8 425HP Hemi in just about every **** model they have right off the bat...... Chevy Comes out with a V6 Camaro with 300HP and an SS with 422HP right off the bat........Ford??? a 300HP GT and a 500HP GT500 that we had to wait nearly an entire year for and it can barely hold its own against a stock C6 Vette.

Oh wait, Im Sorry we got a Bullitt with a tune and lowered suspension.............

Yeah the Mustang is a platform, and yes the aftermarket for the car is Huge, no question about it, but am I really that far off base here???? am I asking for too much, am I on crack??

And yes I am aware that not everyone on the planet earth wants a car with a milliion HP under the hood............ But if that is so much the case, then WTF is going on over at Chevy and Chrysler?? I guess they are just playing around in dream land with all their high HP cars, and Ford is right and I'm wrong. Flame on!!!!!!

Honestly though, lets all hope for the best at Ford. Thats really all we can do.

 

Doubt very much that'll happen.
While I can't say 100% that it'll NEVER happen... too much is riding on the 5.0 program and a lot of the work is already done.
A 5.4 with its weight and current condition compared to the new engine are worlds apart, and would be a step backwards.

Bite your tongue
You'll definately want even the non-GDI 5.0 over the 5.4....

Count on the 5.0, the potential is awsome....