2Slack

Are there any acurate power ratings for the 2010 Mustang out there. According to this article, the Camaro V6 will have 296hp! and the V8 416hp!

http://jalopnik.com/398828/productio...amaro-revealed

Boomer

no not yet.

And yes, they will have 300hp/270lbs in a 3747lb V6 Camaro, and 416+hp/408ftlbs in a 3900lb SS v8 camaro

The 2010 will more than likely (even though lighter) not be able to beat the 2010 Camaro
2011 Mustang on the other hand well...we'll just have to wait and see if the 5.0 can live up to the hype

max2000jp

Ford is going to need to step up for the 2011 Mustang. The SS sounds like it's going to be a well rounded performer. Hopefully Ford is addressing the shortcoming in suspension & brakes when compared to the SS.

RedCandy5.0

All this talk about the Mustang sporting a 400 HP engine. When has Ford made such a radical jump in HP no matter what the competition was pushing. We went from 260 to 300. I would not be surprised to see a 340/350 HP engine instead of a 400 HP engine in the 2010/2011 GT's.
If you are pusing 400 HP in the GT what about the SE models will they be 500 HP or greater? Who would buy the SE models if its that close of HP and pay thousands more? It just not seem to be Ford's style.
What is everyones thoughts?

Boomer

What SE models did we get in the 2005-2009 model year that was between the GT and GT500 (from Ford)
???

We got a bunch of tape/stripe packages and a Bullitt with a tune/intake. Not any radical middle of the road 400hp SEs.
With 2010 being a refresh and the new engines coming online...its probably more financially feasible for them to keep the SEs at a min. (heck we didn't even see any major changes to the body style this gen. A 2005 GT looks like a 2009 GT..with the exception of some options, but the base GT looks the same)

The only thing we may see (and this is pure thinkin out loud) is if the 5.0 is ready for a small run in 2010 to keep the other cars at bay (camaro/challenger)

Again a lot of this is just thinkin out loud, but the 5.0 is coming, and it will probably surprise a LOT of people.

3Mach1

Other than the weight issue its a nice looking piece. Im honestly on the fence and will wait for the 5.0. If Ford does not step up to the plate this time I will be buying a GM car this round. Im sick and tired of being down on horsepower. I hope somebody at Ford is listening this time around because I gave them my last free pass. Im driving a mach 1 right now and have no regrets with that because I knew it would go heads up with the ls1 cars. Its a shame to have to buy a special edition just to be competitive. That is BS. The GT needs to be on par with the SS.

I also pray that somebody is doing something to cut weight. Scott Settlemire (sp?) has made some bold statements like "bring it on pony boy" and I would love nothing more than to throw that back in his face. Where is Colletti when you need him to terminate those sorts of things.

Seriously, GM has a nice piece and Ford will either step up or they wont. I dream of a 400hp Gt at 3500 lbs. If they can pull it off I will be at a Ford dealership but not without driving the camaro. Gm should be ashamed of bringing such a overweight car to the market that has such great potential. I may eat those words down the road because Ford may not be able to do any better.

Boomer

Scott should really say 'bring it on you pre2011 mustang boys.... but you 5.0s...please..just stay home'

Rememeber they were comparing their 2010...to a car that was made 5 years PRIOR

GRAYPNY

These cars will never be made. Gas will hit $6.00 a gallon by then and everyone will be looking for high mileage cars. If they do make it into production there will be a huge gas guzzler tax. JMO~

3Mach1

+1 The 03/04 Cobras will lay these cars to waste when its all said and done. If the 5.0 is everything I have heard then Scott will eat his words. Lets just keep the weight down. Those cars will be worth waiting for. I still cant believe GM brought such a heavy pig to the market all things considered. Talk about a bone headed move. Im one that would like to see the stang downsized a touch to save weight. The camaro looks like a big car to me. I like the size of the sn95 although the back seat is useless except for small children.

Im hoping Ford steps things up because Im not a fan of the camaro interior at all. I may change my mind when I see one in person but it looks odd to me for some reason. Ford really needs the 3.5 in the mustang as well. Its time to put the old 4.0 out to pasture.

Clino

I think Ford is always behind in the performance department because they can afford to be with the Mustang having such a strong after market. There is more than enough options for the people who really care about having a deadly fast Mustang, and Ford doesn't have to bother with the costs involved in producing the technology to make the big power themselves.

Think about it, why would Ford spend engineering and development dollars on ways to make the Mustang perform better than average when the after market is already doing it for them. For those who care about having a high level performance Mustang (which is a very small percentage of overall buyers) they can do that easily with after market parts. Meanwhile the other 80% of buyers are happy with a mild performance car. Ford is smart in only giving people a good affordable performance starting point, without wasting time and money trying to develop a car that will blow everything else out of the water. Thats what killed the Camaro, and shows how more performance does not equal more sales.

Unfortunately, because people like us are the minority, and we will always have to pay extra for a SE if we want more performance because of the costs involved in development and production of a higher performance car. I think the GT will always have just enough performance to keep racers interested with potential, but never enough to surprise them. It would just be wasted time and money on Ford's behalf to do so.

That's why a 400hp 5.0 GT would be awesome, but in my opinion unlikely. I think we will see it in a SE, with a milder version in the GT for the common folk.

Thomas S

I don't see how Ford can bring any LESS than 400hp to the table and expect to compete. I'm seriously considering trading for a Camaro SS when they come out unless something drastic changes. I love the look of the Camaro and the interior is much nicer looking than the current Stang. And it's not only the HP but the torque of that big 6.2 and it's not looking good for the Stang. Throw in the IRS of the Camaro and it's looking like game over. Ford better bring it because Chevy sure as hell did.

TXBLUOVAL

See what I was telling Yall about bigger engines ... ???

The 5.0 is NOT going to be able to hold much on the 6.2 GM performance motor.

Obviously I was right ... putting a 5.4 in the current Mustang (other than a Shelby) was NOT too much to expect nor ask for.

This outcome is going to be interesting to see. I am not going to hold my breath.

Boomer

The problem with the weight of the Zeta platform is something they just couldn't get around.
It's heavy to begin with, and unless you shell out the $ to put into lightweight material... you either have to eat the weight, or spend more to make it light. The Camaro would have to be even MORE expensive to have the weight come down.... so the other road was taken.

WRT to the Mustang however, Ford has been looking to trim some fat.
If it comes in within 50lbs of its current car with the 5.0 and 6speed tranny + other gizmo's... I'll be happy..
It will easily be lighter than its competitor in SS trim...by a good margin.

Enter the 5.0 4v
I would easily take the new 5.0 over the 6.2 pushrod....and even the 5.4 or 6.2 BOSS SOHC.
Those that think that its JUST a decendant of the 4.6 are going to be GRAVELY mistaken... as long as the train stays on track.

jsaylor

I'm surprised by the doom and gloom expectations being bantered around because of a 416hp car that weighs almost four thousand pounds. Even if the Mustang GT gained 100lb were looking at a minimum difference of 300lb between a Mustang GT and a Camaro SS, with the actual difference likely coming in at more like 400lb and change. The Camaro would need about a fifty hp edge to overcome that kind of pork factor differentiation, and at the moment it is rather likely that the 5.0L slated for duty in the 2011 Mustang GT is going to be sporting more hp than the Camaro will. The only advantage the Camaro is going to have will be in terms of torque, and it wont be nearly enough to overcome the above.

max2000jp

Huh? The 2011 GT is reportedly going to make 400hp. I bet it's under that number given other modern 5.0L engines currently in the market. Infiniti's new 5.0L is a good comparison.

The LS3 makes "416" hp. I put that in quotes because we've seen this before with the F-body LS1. I bet when the cars get on the dynos, they put down identical numbers to the LS3 Vette.

It should be interesting. GM seems to have definetly built a solid competitor that will force Ford to make the Mustang better. Maybe we will see Brembo Brakes and an IRS on the GT in the future

bob

We will see, GM is the company that introduced the newer SAE power measurement thats supposed to be more truthful/accurate in its reporting. Seems odd they would deviate from it. Of course 416 isn't really that far off from the 430 the vette has.

Moosetang

"400+" B2 has more than once said "425 PFI 5.0," including here. This not only indicates it would best anything 416-430 with that weight differential, but that it has room to grow when GDI is introduced. I have faith the 2011 5.0 will be a real screamer, right now I'm more concerned with whether Ford can milk enough out of the 4.6 in 2010 to keep it competetive, or if we have to endure 2 years ('09,'10) of "3rd place" reviews before we get back on top.

TXBLUOVAL

I understand your point but I would like to add that most folks grasp the 2 basic methods of measuring horsepower better than other methods which are flywheel and rear wheel.

Both GM and Ford will sell more if the "416 HP" rating is rear wheel as opposed to flywheel. Whichever one pulls that off will more than likely outsell the other.

TXBLUOVAL

I don't think this way of thinking coincides with that of the rest of the performance-buying public. There are too many folks out there that are going to say; "GM gives you a 6.2 and Ford only gives you a 5.0 --- FORGET ABOUT IT".

It doesn't matter to some, and for that matter a LOT of people, how much something weighs or how much power you can get out of a certain amount of small engine (i.e. Ford's current philosophy, or whatever you call it).

I personally see NO handicap whatsoever in having a pushrod motor, expecially if it has more cubic inches. I would rather have a pushrod motor that produces more power potential with more cubic inches rather than the opposite. If Ford would've offered the 2008 BULLITT and/or the California Special with an optional 302 or 351 pushrod V-8 putting out anywhere from 275-290 HP in addition to offering the meager 281 with 315 "advertised HP" (with no more than a CAI pipe and computer tune) I would've already bought one with the 302 or 351. Why ... ??? Because there simply is no substitute for cubic inches. A lot of people agree with this, and if it impacts sales then that is what matters most.

Here's another point for whatever it's worth:

I've spoken to a lot of people over the years that were once die-hard GM Camaro/Firebird owners that wound up buying Mustangs in the final years the last Camaro was offered. One thing I've noticed that seems to have changed their buying minds is that they never could accept the fact that GM would not change the Camaro/Firebird design to accommodate "true duals" like the Mustang platform allowed. I agree with them. Unfortunately GM probably does not realize how many sales they lost because of this one simple limiting factor.

Most complaints about Ford now is there are not enough engine (and other) options. NAV systems, satellite radios, steering wheel controls, etc. do not count as performance options.

Interestingly I've seen another common thread (from a lot of these same potential buyers). This is the point that Ford refuses to be flexible enough to offer better performance packages in the GT and SE(s) for those that would be willing to spend the extra money. Often cited is the GM special-order-only "Firehawk" program that was available. Ford doesn't have anything like this and I am afraid with the return of the Camaro Ford is going to realize they should've been offering something like this since 2005. Ford could've easily offered special-order packages for the Mustang (and Thunderbird) like GM did the Firehawk option and they would've sold more cars. they would've had the time to work any bugs out of that type of program and work on making special-order packages somewhat more affordable for more people.

Personally, I'm going with whoever offers the most options with the biggest engines.

As far as I am concerned Ford can keep the little 281 as a base V-8 engine, but they need to offer more V-8 choices like they did in 1969, and not just stop with a 5.0 and "hope for the best", the attitude of "Well, we'll go ahead and give them this and they'll be quiet" is over. Too much gap between the 300 HP 281 and 500 HP 5.4 SC like they are doing now. Offering the 5.0 as "the V-8" unless you shell out another $20-K for a 6.2 in a Shelby is not going to work very well for Ford.

Boomer

Yeah, offering the bigger engine worked out REAL well for GM in the past.

Quote:

I personally see NO handicap whatsoever in having a pushrod motor

I didn't say I did either... i said I'd rather take the new 5.0 over the LS3 Pushrod or the 5.4 mod, or the 6.2 BOSS. The LS3 is a nice engine, don't get me wrong. But I'm not interested in a 3900lbs LS3.

If Ford would to give us an option of the 5.0 4v screamer in the GT with 400-425hp, or the 6.2 BOSS 2v with 425hp and more torque..oh and MORE WEIGHT...and LESS MPG by FAR... I'll take the 5.0 please... as well as reasons other than HP and weight.

The 5.0 will be a WELL balanced LIGHTER and more FUEL EFFICIENT 400+hp as opposed to a heavy/thirsty 400+hp.

And you won't see the 6.2 in the Shelby...if these cars are going on diets... bigger is not going to be in the answer. but don't let that fool you...